LGP Philosophy Discussion Thread

[Godric]

But with that Kraftster has to come some confidence that life will experience beauty, it's not a sure thing that life will be healthy I know it's all a big paradox

[shmenguin]

It took me a long time to not be paralyzed with fear when thinking about the nothingness that likely awaits us all after death (kind of awkard to say that since we don't "experience" the nothingness). I think its the scariest thought imaginable.

the way i look at the infinite abyss of nothingness is this. death is simply a permanent loss of consciousness. we lose consciousness literally every day. the only difference between 8 hours of unconsciousness and an eternity is how you perceive it after you wake up. while it's happening, you don't care about anything.

i guess that might make death MORE scary for some, but the finite nature of this perspective of the seemingly infinite is more soothing to me.

[Kraftster]

it's gonna be tricky with my future kids. my wife is a catholic, and i'm an athiest who doesn't lie when asked straightforward questions. i don't mind raising my kids catholic, and i'll accompany them to church, but if i get some questions from a 6 year old about heaven and jesus and whatever other supernatural business is brought up in their day-to-day life, i don't know how i'm going to answer. it'll be a lot of work.

Same - wife is episcopalian and I'm with you. I won't be able to lie to my daughter, but I am happy to discuss the various views on the meaning of human existence with her. If she ultimately finds as much meaning in life from religion as I feel I have from whatever you'd call what I think, that's be great, and I'd look forward to the spirited debates

[count2infinity]

if you let fear run you're life, then you're pretty much dead anyways... not necessarily directed at you Godric, but in general. It sounds as though you're scared about the thought of making a human because of the chance that they will not experience the wonders the world has to offer, and that's fine if you feel that way, but it seems like it's mostly guided by fear.

[count2infinity]

it's gonna be tricky with my future kids. my wife is a catholic, and i'm an athiest who doesn't lie when asked straightforward questions. i don't mind raising my kids catholic, and i'll accompany them to church, but if i get some questions from a 6 year old about heaven and jesus and whatever other supernatural business is brought up in their day-to-day life, i don't know how i'm going to answer. it'll be a lot of work.

Same - wife is episcopalian and I'm with you. I won't be able to lie to my daughter, but I am happy to discuss the various views on the meaning of human existence with her. If she ultimately finds as much meaning in life from religion as I feel I have from whatever you'd call what I think, that's be great, and I'd look forward to the spirited debates

yeah, luckily my long-time girlfriend (if it wasn't for the fact that we both have 5 years minimum of school left, she'd be my fiance by now) and I have similar views on religion. best of luck to the both of you. I have a feeling it may not be as hard as you may think, just be straight forward.

[Willie Kool]

It took me a long time to not be paralyzed with fear when thinking about the nothingness that likely awaits us all after death (kind of awkard to say that since we don't "experience" the nothingness). I think its the scariest thought imaginable.

the way i look at the infinite abyss of nothingness is this. death is simply a permanent loss of consciousness. we lose consciousness literally every day. the only difference between 8 hours of unconsciousness and an eternity is how you perceive it after you wake up. while it's happening, you don't care about anything.

i guess that might make death MORE scary for some, but the finite nature of this perspective of the seemingly infinite is more soothing to me.

Was just writing a very similar reply - but you said it better.

[Kraftster]

It took me a long time to not be paralyzed with fear when thinking about the nothingness that likely awaits us all after death (kind of awkard to say that since we don't "experience" the nothingness). I think its the scariest thought imaginable.

the way i look at the infinite abyss of nothingness is this. death is simply a permanent loss of consciousness. we lose consciousness literally every day. the only difference between 8 hours of unconsciousness and an eternity is how you perceive it after you wake up. while it's happening, you don't care about anything.

i guess that might make death MORE scary for some, but the finite nature of this perspective of the seemingly infinite is more soothing to me.

Was just writing a very similar reply - but you said it better.

Its a funny thing for me. I remarked recently that I have become so logical/left-brained that I seldom can identify things that I believe anymore -- which I equate more with "feeling" than arriving at through syllogism. My view of nothingness is one thing I definitely still feel, in spite of all the logic in the world weighing against a fear in something that I will never experience. Its strage -- my feelings on nothingness provide a lot of the meaning to my life and I know that I will never actually perceive nothingness, that it will just be a prolonged loss of consciousness, and so it won't be bad when I am no longer perceiving. Yet, despite all that, I still find it terrifying.

[doublem]

Until you see a death first hand and deal with the aftermath of all that, I'm not really sure you can understand it. I used to come into these threads and say things, but nothing can really prepare you for the sudden loss of life.

[Godric]

Until you see a death first hand and deal with the aftermath of all that, I'm not really sure you can understand it. I used to come into these threads and say things, but nothing can really prepare you for the sudden loss of life.

My heart still goes out to your situation

[Godric]

There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness.

Dalai Lama

[Willie Kool]

Until you see a death first hand and deal with the aftermath of all that, I'm not really sure you can understand it. I used to come into these threads and say things, but nothing can really prepare you for the sudden loss of life.

I've lost a lot of people close to me over the years, but not a parent. My condolences for your loss.

[Guinness]

The great argument against the anarchists has always been that of the esteemed Thomas Hobbes: That humans are brute beasts, and that left to their own devices, they will break, steal, rape and murder in a never-ending orgy of death.

Anarchists always presented examples of cooperation to counter Hobbes, but images of bloody fear sell much better than images of cooperative workers. And beside, every powerful and authoritative voice on the planet says Hobbes is right, and not many people would dare cross them.

So, most people became comfortable in their conclusion that, while the anarchist next door was a nice guy, his ideas could never work in the real world.

Last week, however, science lined up on the side of the anarchists. On January 16th, the Medical University of Vienna released a serious scientific study that produced this headline:

People Behave Socially and 'Well' Even Without Rules

From the Science Daily article:

Millions of human interactions were assessed during the study which included actions such as communication, founding and ending friendships, trading goods, sleeping, moving, however also starting hostilities, attacks and punishment. The game does not suggest any rules and everyone can live with their avatar (i.e. with their "game character" in the virtual world) as they choose. "And the result of this is not anarchy," says Thurner. "The participants organise themselves as a social group with good intents. Almost all the actions are positive."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 095821.htm

Unfortunate misuse of the word "anarchy" there, but nevertheless an interesting study, I think.

[Kraftster]

“The struggle itself…is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”

Still one of the most accurate and profound statements I've ever read.

[Godric]

“The struggle itself…is enough to fill a man’s heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”

Still one of the most accurate and profound statements I've ever read.

I use to play an RTS and my account was named Sisyphus..... I was Number one in the international leader boards for 3 years ..... lol

/csb

[doublem]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in- ... ngs-happen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the Eye of the Beholder.

[Kraftster]

"Living with the voluntary consciousness of death, the heroic individual can choose to despair or to make a Kierkegaardian leap and trust in the sacrosanct vitality of the cosmos, in the unknown god of life whose mysterious purpose is expressed in the overwhelming drama of cosmic evolution."

Starting to read Denial of Death. Really like that quote. Reminds me a lot of the Camus quote I popped in here to post a while ago.

[Godric]

"Living with the voluntary consciousness of death, the heroic individual can choose to despair or to make a Kierkegaardian leap and trust in the sacrosanct vitality of the cosmos, in the unknown god of life whose mysterious purpose is expressed in the overwhelming drama of cosmic evolution."

Starting to read Denial of Death. Really like that quote. Reminds me a lot of the Camus quote I popped in here to post a while ago.

Sounds a lot like a Khrushchev quote I read

I'll find it when I'm not on my.phone and at work but I really liked both

[Godric]

One sacrament are consecrate, the earth Not we alone hath passions hymeneal, The yellow buttercups that shake for mirth At daybreak know a pleasure not less real Than we do, when in some fresh-blossoming wood We draw the spring into our hearts, and feel that life is good. . . .

Is the light vanished from our golden sun, Or is this daedal-fashioned earth less fair, That we are nature's heritors, and one With every pulse of life that beats the air?Rather new suns across the sky shall pass, New splendour come unto the flower, new glory to the grass.

And we two lovers shall not sit afar, Critics of nature, but the joyous sea Shall be our raiment, and the bearded star Shoot arrows at our pleasure! We shall be Part of the mighty universal whole, And through all Aeons mix and mingle with the Kosmic Soul!

We shall be notes in that great Symphony Whose cadence circles through the rhythmic spheres, And all the live World's throbbing heart shall be One with our heart, the stealthy creeping years Have lost their terrors now, we shall not die, The Universe itself shall be our Immortality!

(Panthea, Oscar Wilde)

[LeopardLetang]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Benny Fitz]

This thread could use a little Chuck Klosterman - I dont know how many of you are familiar with CK, but I assume, as this is a philosophy thread, that there are more than a handful who are. He writes for the NY Times as well as being notable for his essay's on pop-culture. In one of his books I picked up several years ago, he poses a series of 23 questions he must ask someone in order to know if he can love them or not. He's gone on to come up with a number of 'hypotheticals' that usually put the reader in a quandary, or perhaps reveal something about themselves.

This was always one of my favorites as I think most can answers easily, but then reflect...

Spoiler:

A novel titled Interior Mirror is released to mammoth commercial success (despite middling reviews). However, a curious social trend emerges: Though no one can prove a direct scientific link, it appears that almost 30 percent of the people who read this book immediately become homosexual. Many of these newfound homosexuals credit the book for helping them reach this conclusion about their orientation, despite the fact that Interior Mirror is ostensibly a crime novel with no homoerotic content (and was written by a straight man).

Would this phenomenon increase (or decrease) the likelihood of you reading this book?

There are a ton of these, and would serve as great fodder for philosophical banter. See his Jack and Jane hypothetical

[Troy Loney]

Spoiler:

Increase, I'd be very intrigued to read a book that could invoke that sort of response from people. I'm pretty sure you can't be turned gay, but if it turns out I actually am gay, i'd be happy that the book helped me.

Not sure why that had a spoiler...so I guess I'll put my response in a spoiler.

[Gaucho]

Wise answer.

[Benny Fitz]

would you look at it as unlocking your true orientation?

[Kraftster]

I think I agree with Troy. I guess it would be kind of frustrating to have my life turned upside down (I'm married to a woman), but I don't think I would ever choose "ignorance is bliss" over knowing the truth.

[Troy Loney]

would you look at it as unlocking your true orientation?

Well, I wouldn't read the book with the intent of unlocking something, as though I've been supressing my homosexuality. I guess I've always just felt that most people who supress their homosexuality do it for concern for social stature, or fear of non conforming. I don't really consider myself vulnerable to those pressures, so I would go into it knowing there's nothing to unlock for me. I'm curious to read a book that is going to illicit such strong responses from people.