LGP Philosophy Discussion Thread

[Troy Loney]

Are we to consider that this book has some sort of hypnotic power that makes heterosexuals believe that they are gay. I assumed that this is not the case, but if that is why people are turning homosexual I would not read the book.

[Benny Fitz]

I'll answer honestly and say that I'd probably pass. It should be noted that I have a few gay relatives, so my response should not be seen as one that is homophobic. I just don’t want to have to deal with what I perceive to be the lifestyle changes I might have to make.

Telling everyone I know, including my GF. So there's a break-up I’d have to go through, which is never fun.
Probably start hanging out at some new places, so as to find myself a new sig-o.

Though, i suppose like that of my life now, if i were truly gay, I’d want to go to those places. They'd seem no different than the place I went before I had a GF.

I don’t know...i get what Troy is saying "i doubt it'll change me" but i'm like "yea me too, but why risk it."

I dont mean to make this too political, but what if instead of turning you homosexual the book had the effect of making you extremely prejudice?

[Sarcastic]

I think such a book may convince someone who is already gay to accept that fact. But it won't turn a straight guy into a gay guy. Just my guess. I would like to read it.

[Troy Loney]

Yeah, I guess I just feel like if I am actually gay, and have been supressing it for 30 years, I'd be sexually frustrated and depressed all the time.

[Rylan]

I like crime novels so I would give it a chance.

[Benny Fitz]

so it seems like we're assuming that those who read and 'change' have had some sort of inkling of their feelings prior to reading.

i'm taking this at face value; if 100 completely hetero-unsuppressed-sexual people read this book, and nearly a 3rd change their orientation due to some unexplained phenomenon, i dont think i'm reading.

[Rylan]

If I am gay, then I am gay. If I am straight turned gay, then I am gay. I wonder if any gays read and switch in the batter's box?

[Gaucho]

Well, does the book merely trigger suppressed homosexual feelings or does it have the power to somehow turn straight people gay?

[Benny Fitz]

Well, does the book merely trigger suppressed homosexual feelings or does it have the power to somehow turn straight people gay?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that no one is going to come out and say that if the book triggered suppressed homosexual feelings, then they wouldnt read it. I feel that most would admit they would read if they felt it would awakening their true feelings. Especially since this is a message board and that would be PC.

So for the sake of exercise, lets say this is a roll of the dice. 3 out 10 turn gay after reading, would you read?

[Kraftster]

No, I don't think I would then. I think I'm self-evaluative enough to now if I was suppressing something. Knowing that I don't feel that I am, I wouldn't want to go through the upheaval when it may not even be a change that is genuine.

[Troy Loney]

So basically you want to read it like this. If I read this book, there's a thirty percent chance i'm a homosexual and have to deal with the consequences of that. If it's more akin to Russian Roulette, i'd skip it.

[ExPatriatePen]

I'd be more apt to read that book than I would one that could potentially turn me into a flyers fan

[redwill]

It is difficult to live in the moment.

Do others feel how difficult and ultimately troubling this is? I have experienced some pretty memorable moments in my life. Tame compared to others, perhaps, but remarkable nonetheless. The problem is that when I am actually experiencing such a moment, I am distracted by the knowledge that it won't last. This inevitably lessens the enjoyment of the moment.

Take a great experience in your life. It could be having a fantastic meal, witnessing nature in all of its majesty on say, a hiking or biking trip, being in a truly unique place that relatively few others will ever go, a great sexual experience, or whatever. Do you dwell on the transience of the moment more so than on the pleasure and sublimity of the moment? Do you think, "I don't want this to end," while realizing that it will end all-too-soon and thereby fall out of the moment itself?

I was thinking about this today because of one of my dogs. All he seems to want in life is to have his chest rubbed. He will forego food, going outside to play, and every other thing dogs get so excited about, if only someone will rub his chest. He lives for it. He will sit up on his haunches like a prairie dog imploring someone to rub his chest. So I was rubbing his chest today for only a couple of minutes. He seemed to be in a truly great place. But I kept wondering if he was thinking about the fact that I was not going to be rubbing his chest for very long. I have other things to do, after all. Was he living in the moment as I seem unable to do?

Years ago I was told that Buddhist monks try VERY hard to live in the moment. In fact, they try to live in the second, the millisecond, the nanosecond. It's a challenge for them to live in the shortest possible time segment. Sort of like in calculus, taking the limit of time as time approaches zero. I suppose that if you can take the moment to the very edge of the infinite shortness of time, as it were, then you are truly approaching enlightenment.

Anyway, it's difficult, and something that I have never been able to master. Maybe there's a reason I'm not a Buddhist monk. Maybe I can blame the hubbub of modern civilization. Maybe I can blame the Industrial Revolution. Maybe that's it.

Damn you, Thomas Newcomen.

[shmenguin]

It is difficult to live in the moment.

Do others feel how difficult and ultimately troubling this is? I have experienced some pretty memorable moments in my life. Tame compared to others, perhaps, but remarkable nonetheless. The problem is that when I am actually experiencing such a moment, I am distracted by the knowledge that it won't last. This inevitably lessens the enjoyment of the moment.

Take a great experience in your life. It could be having a fantastic meal, witnessing nature in all of its majesty on say, a hiking or biking trip, being in a truly unique place that relatively few others will ever go, a great sexual experience, or whatever. Do you dwell on the transience of the moment more so than on the pleasure and sublimity of the moment? Do you think, "I don't want this to end," while realizing that it will end all-too-soon and thereby fall out of the moment itself?

I was thinking about this today because of one of my dogs. All he seems to want in life is to have his chest rubbed. He will forego food, going outside to play, and every other thing dogs get so excited about, if only someone will rub his chest. He lives for it. He will sit up on his haunches like a prairie dog imploring someone to rub his chest. So I was rubbing his chest today for only a couple of minutes. He seemed to be in a truly great place. But I kept wondering if he was thinking about the fact that I was not going to be rubbing his chest for very long. I have other things to do, after all. Was he living in the moment as I seem unable to do?

Years ago I was told that Buddhist monks try VERY hard to live in the moment. In fact, they try to live in the second, the millisecond, the nanosecond. It's a challenge for them to live in the shortest possible time segment. Sort of like in calculus, taking the limit of time as time approaches zero. I suppose that if you can take the moment to the very edge of the infinite shortness of time, as it were, then you are truly approaching enlightenment.

Anyway, it's difficult, and something that I have never been able to master. Maybe there's a reason I'm not a Buddhist monk. Maybe I can blame the hubbub of modern civilization. Maybe I can blame the Industrial Revolution. Maybe that's it.

Damn you, Thomas Newcomen.

most of my 20's was very unsatisfying and bleak. throughout that time, i made conscious efforts to not pine for the "good old days", since it would just leave me significantly depressed. that tactic made a permanent imprint on my brain. so now, even though my life is very fulfilling, i still don't get bummed out about the fleeting nature of life's greatest moments because i've trained myself to accept that as a fact of life.

i have a baby at home, and am constantly hearing about how it "goes by too fast". i don't really get that feeling. and even though i know that my daughter giving me an impossibly big smile whenever i come home isn't going to last forever, i still enjoy it right now and don't get sad that it's so ephemeral. i'm ok moving on to the next phase when it comes. i think that's tougher for most people to deal with...which leads to people having way too many babies to try and chase that joy (by "way too many" i mean any more than 2).

[redwill]

most of my 20's was very unsatisfying and bleak. throughout that time, i made conscious efforts to not pine for the "good old days", since it would just leave me significantly depressed. that tactic made a permanent imprint on my brain. so now, even though my life is very fulfilling, i still don't get bummed out about the fleeting nature of life's greatest moments because i've trained myself to accept that as a fact of life.

Perhaps I misunderstand, but I'm not "pining for the good old days." At least, no more so than any person. I'm trying to live in the moment. And failing. It's troubling to me.

[shmenguin]

Well it's still all about reconciliation with the fact that "the moment" is fleeting.

[Willie Kool]

Years ago I was told that Buddhist monks try VERY hard to live in the moment. In fact, they try to live in the second, the millisecond, the nanosecond. It's a challenge for them to live in the shortest possible time segment. Sort of like in calculus, taking the limit of time as time approaches zero. I suppose that if you can take the moment to the very edge of the infinite shortness of time, as it were, then you are truly approaching enlightenment.

Anyway, it's difficult, and something that I have never been able to master. Maybe there's a reason I'm not a Buddhist monk.

IMO, whoever told you that only had half the truth. The path is just being. The very notion of 'trying' is counterproductive, an unnecessary overthinking that obscures the truth and perpetuates the illusion that you exist as a distinct individual.

[redwill]

The path is just being. The very notion of 'trying' is counterproductive, an unnecessary overthinking that obscures the truth and perpetuates the illusion that you exist as a distinct individual.

I guess it's too difficult for me not to think, even as pitifully as I do.

[Willie Kool]

The path is just being. The very notion of 'trying' is counterproductive, an unnecessary overthinking

I guess it's too difficult for me not to think

[youtube][/youtube]

[Rylan]

Your conundrum puzzles me redwill. I will reflect on it and see if I can add anything that has not already been stated.

[redwill]

Spoiler:

[youtube][/youtube]

Haha. Very well played and very interesting.

After all, there is a sort-of pale reflection in the advice I gave on how to play Warz in the last game, yes? How did I miss that?

[Kraftster]

I also have been cogitating about redwill's post. I am busy today but will contribute this evening.

[Willie Kool]

Haha. Very well played and very interesting.

After all, there is a sort-of pale reflection in the advice I gave on how to play Warz in the last game, yes? How did I miss that?

But, in the end, we're just playing the game and having fun.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Troy Loney]

It is difficult to live in the moment.

Do others feel how difficult and ultimately troubling this is? I have experienced some pretty memorable moments in my life. Tame compared to others, perhaps, but remarkable nonetheless. The problem is that when I am actually experiencing such a moment, I am distracted by the knowledge that it won't last. This inevitably lessens the enjoyment of the moment.

Take a great experience in your life. It could be having a fantastic meal, witnessing nature in all of its majesty on say, a hiking or biking trip, being in a truly unique place that relatively few others will ever go, a great sexual experience, or whatever. Do you dwell on the transience of the moment more so than on the pleasure and sublimity of the moment? Do you think, "I don't want this to end," while realizing that it will end all-too-soon and thereby fall out of the moment itself?

I was thinking about this today because of one of my dogs. All he seems to want in life is to have his chest rubbed. He will forego food, going outside to play, and every other thing dogs get so excited about, if only someone will rub his chest. He lives for it. He will sit up on his haunches like a prairie dog imploring someone to rub his chest. So I was rubbing his chest today for only a couple of minutes. He seemed to be in a truly great place. But I kept wondering if he was thinking about the fact that I was not going to be rubbing his chest for very long. I have other things to do, after all. Was he living in the moment as I seem unable to do?

Years ago I was told that Buddhist monks try VERY hard to live in the moment. In fact, they try to live in the second, the millisecond, the nanosecond. It's a challenge for them to live in the shortest possible time segment. Sort of like in calculus, taking the limit of time as time approaches zero. I suppose that if you can take the moment to the very edge of the infinite shortness of time, as it were, then you are truly approaching enlightenment.

Anyway, it's difficult, and something that I have never been able to master. Maybe there's a reason I'm not a Buddhist monk. Maybe I can blame the hubbub of modern civilization. Maybe I can blame the Industrial Revolution. Maybe that's it.

Damn you, Thomas Newcomen.

Eckhart Toole kind of bases his ideas on this premise. I would check out the book "A New Earth", i did the audio book on that. It gives a good perspective on this premise...obviously wont answer any personal questions but help you put some things in perspective.

[Kraftster]

It is difficult to live in the moment.

Do others feel how difficult and ultimately troubling this is? I have experienced some pretty memorable moments in my life. Tame compared to others, perhaps, but remarkable nonetheless. The problem is that when I am actually experiencing such a moment, I am distracted by the knowledge that it won't last. This inevitably lessens the enjoyment of the moment.

Take a great experience in your life. It could be having a fantastic meal, witnessing nature in all of its majesty on say, a hiking or biking trip, being in a truly unique place that relatively few others will ever go, a great sexual experience, or whatever. Do you dwell on the transience of the moment more so than on the pleasure and sublimity of the moment? Do you think, "I don't want this to end," while realizing that it will end all-too-soon and thereby fall out of the moment itself?

I was thinking about this today because of one of my dogs. All he seems to want in life is to have his chest rubbed. He will forego food, going outside to play, and every other thing dogs get so excited about, if only someone will rub his chest. He lives for it. He will sit up on his haunches like a prairie dog imploring someone to rub his chest. So I was rubbing his chest today for only a couple of minutes. He seemed to be in a truly great place. But I kept wondering if he was thinking about the fact that I was not going to be rubbing his chest for very long. I have other things to do, after all. Was he living in the moment as I seem unable to do?

Years ago I was told that Buddhist monks try VERY hard to live in the moment. In fact, they try to live in the second, the millisecond, the nanosecond. It's a challenge for them to live in the shortest possible time segment. Sort of like in calculus, taking the limit of time as time approaches zero. I suppose that if you can take the moment to the very edge of the infinite shortness of time, as it were, then you are truly approaching enlightenment.

Anyway, it's difficult, and something that I have never been able to master. Maybe there's a reason I'm not a Buddhist monk. Maybe I can blame the hubbub of modern civilization. Maybe I can blame the Industrial Revolution. Maybe that's it.

Damn you, Thomas Newcomen.

I feel like this post might come off as being existential bull****. (I'm wondering how many are thinking "well that's a little redundant with "by Kraftster," isn't it?)

To me, this dilemma sounds very much like the existential crisis or coming to grips with the absurdity of life, i.e., I am here by mere chance, I have no greater purpose, and "I" will be completely out of existence in the blink of an eye. Faced with those facts, one can live in despair or one can find joy in the fact that one exists at all where the alternative is far more likely, meaning in living the f*** out of life^FN while we have it. "The struggle itself [...] is enough to fill a man's heart."

The life/existential dilemma seems to be the macro version of the life's moments dilemma that you're having.

I'm all in on the struggle itself being enough. I try to live every day against the backdrop of the realization of the absurdity of life and keep each day in proper perspective of the fact that I am an awesome human being because I'm here and I love myself (not in a warm and fuzzy way but in the way you'd hear someone say "I loooove this song!" is the type of excitement that I say that with) -- what other choice do I have?

I basically try to approach every moment the same way. It feels a bit silly sometimes to be doing something totally insignificant like playing FIFA on playstation or something and be approaching it with the same over-the-top vigor that I would approach moments of far greater magnitude, but every moment is incredibly impactful in the face of the absurdity of existence and the alternative (nothingness). I will jump around my living room by myself when I score a big goal in a FIFA match and feel absolutely no shame in doing so. Why should I? I am alive and getting to do something that I enjoy.

By the same token, and this admittedly takes a little bit more work, the same approach should apply to the more difficult moments in life. I couldn't dream of saying it more perfectly and succinctly than Christopher Hitchens: "I wish to be spared nothing that belongs to a proper life span." Even those tough moments in life, the micro struggles within the macro struggle of living in the face of the absurdity of life, are deserving of being experienced with the same passion and vigor.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to flip the switch and go from being dragged down by the absurd to being uplifted by it. It just sort of happened for me. I feel like it sounds silly and fake a lot of the time when I try to put it into words, but it couldn't be more genuine. There are definitely times where I lose sight of all of this and get angry when I certainly should not, or where I begin to wish I didn't have to face painful times, but I do try to catch myself when that happens and remember how lucky I am just to be.

^FN
Hat tip to Benny Fitz for coining the phrase "enjoy the f*** out of it (life)." If I ever write some type of Kraftster manifesto, I'm pretty sure the title will be "Live the F*** Out of It."

Edit: So I guess what I am saying is, try to not let the transience of the moment get you down. Be happy that you experienced the moment at all, as fleeting as it may have been.