A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Post by **Admin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:59 pm

Jesse drives to pick up Skinny Pete and Badger, they rob Elliot and Gretchen and "perfect" ending spoiled.

Post by **tifosi77** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:04 pm

It was interesting to see the way Walt was running his hands over the cooking equipment right at the end. It was the same way he said goodbye to Holly, which I think sums up Walt's character; his marriage was a mess, his son was broken, his students were largely unmoved...... the only things he did right were cooking and making Holly.

I was a little nonplussed at how my wife reacted to the scene with Gretchen and Elliot. When the laser lights came on and Walt started talking about "the two best hitmen west of the Mississippi", she gasped and put her hand over her mouth..... whilst I rolled my eyes and had to stifle a laugh. As if there was like a coach's poll that ranked hitmen. I felt that was weaksauce not befitting Heisenberg, but whatever. Was also a little displeased that Lydia just happened to call right after the bullets stopped flying, which gave Walt the opportunity to engage in a bit of expository cumuppance that felt contrived.

And I think that up to the moment Walt saw Jesse in shackles that Walt was going to kill him as part of the M60 massacre (or separately).

shmenguin wrote:
So without knowing about Jack's shenanigans with Jesse and his family, the reason Walt came back for them with the m60 was what...just to avenge Hank's death?

I think that plan came together almost as an afterthought. Remember, at the end of the last episode Walt effectively turned himself in to the coppers. Seeing the Charlie Rose interview with the Gray Matter people - and how they effectively disowned Walt - gave him an immediate change of heart. But the real purpose of the interview was that it gave Walt the idea to use Gretchen and Elliot as the launderers of his money via the trust for Walt Jr. And since he was heading back the ABQ anyway...... why not settle all debts? The idea was to put an end to Heisenberg, and that meant just about everyone involved in the enterprise had to die. Not necessarily out of revenge, but out of...... rightness? Because there can be no Heisenberg without Walter White.

shmenguin wrote:
dman66 wrote:
I was very pleased with the ending. Glad Todd got his and glad Jesse can now do whatever he wants to.
That's the thing though...he can't do anything really. He has no money, no connections and he's almost certainly a fugitive. Jesse is basically driving that car right to jail.

Aside from Hank and Gomez, who in law enforcement knew Jesse was connected to Walter White/Heisenberg? Nothing official ever came of Hank finding out his brother-in-law was an arch criminal drug kingpin. I think Jesse gets away fine and dandy to make wooden boxes to his heart's content.

Post by **Gaucho** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 pm

tifosi77 wrote:

I was a little nonplussed at how my wife reacted to the scene with Gretchen and Elliot. When the laser lights came on and Walt started talking about "the two best hitmen west of the Mississippi", she gasped and put her hand over her mouth..... whilst I rolled my eyes and had to stifle a laugh. As if there was like a coach's poll that ranked hitmen. I felt that was weaksauce not befitting Heisenberg, but whatever.

If I were Gretchen or Eliot in that situation I don't think I had the presence of mind to second guess Walt's claim and I don't Walt expected them to.

Remind me never to blackmail you.

count2infinity · Post by **count2infinity** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:17 pm

I've hired the 50th best blackmailer in the central pennsylvania area to blackmail tif... be scared.

Post by **tifosi77** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:37 pm

I didn't mean it in terms of being a transparent bluff (which I think it was, anyway), I just meant it was kind of awful writing.

It sounded like something Hedley Lamarr would have said to the assembled thugs outside Rock Ridge, not what Heisenberg would say in the series finale.

Pitt87 · Post by **Pitt87** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:38 pm

The only thing I really thought would be a part of the finale was some sort of final flash forward. Junior getting a certified letter from the Schwartz's lawyer, Brock getting a hand made box in the mail... some sort of final wink to a completely dialed in audience. Feels very much resolved, as is, but thought for sure that there would be some sort of finish like that.

GSdrums87 · Post by **GSdrums87** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:39 pm

Screw that, Heisenberg is all that matters. Only wish everyone else would've went down too.

Post by **tifosi77** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:42 pm

Yeah, I'm glad there was no coda. The story died with Heisenberg.

the riddler · Post by **the riddler** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:43 pm

I'm satisfied with the ending, I didn't care that there wasn't some big twist. Walt paid the price for the decisions that he made, he destroyed everything around him. Who knows what Walt Jr. will do with that money. It could've all been for nothing. I got the sense that Walt regrets what happened to his family but also that he was happy to have done what he did. And it makes sense, because most people would've just died peacefully, but he took his cancer/life as if he were wronged and he wanted to make the world pay for beating him down. I think he's sorry but he's really not in a lot of ways.

Post by **shmenguin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:45 pm

tifosi77 wrote:

shmenguin wrote:
dman66 wrote:
I was very pleased with the ending. Glad Todd got his and glad Jesse can now do whatever he wants to.
That's the thing though...he can't do anything really. He has no money, no connections and he's almost certainly a fugitive. Jesse is basically driving that car right to jail.
Aside from Hank and Gomez, who in law enforcement knew Jesse was connected to Walter White/Heisenberg? Nothing official ever came of Hank finding out his brother-in-law was an arch criminal drug kingpin. I think Jesse gets away fine and dandy to make wooden boxes to his heart's content.

ok, but that would be predicated on the humungous big leap that:

A) skylar held back info about jesse in her testimony. sure, jesse could rat her out a little if they caught him, but that's not enough of a risk for her to withhold information to the people that are threatening here and ruining her life if she doesn't fully cooperate.
B) marie held back info about jesse. her husband's body is still missing, and she's not going to tell the authorities about the guy who was with him day and night right up to his death? does not compute.
C) and the DEA is going to leave loose ends lying around in the high profile murder of one of their own? not happening.

Post by **shmenguin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:49 pm

tifosi77 wrote:
I didn't mean it in terms of being a transparent bluff (which I think it was, anyway), I just meant it was kind of awful writing.

It sounded like something Hedley Lamarr would have said to the assembled thugs outside Rock Ridge, not what Heisenberg would say in the series finale.

yeah, i cringed at that, myself. maybe the intent was for him to sound intentionally inauthentic to make fun of their lack of street smarts?

Dickie Dunn · Post by **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:49 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
The only thing I really thought would be a part of the finale was some sort of final flash forward. Junior getting a certified letter from the Schwartz's lawyer, Brock getting a hand made box in the mail... some sort of final wink to a completely dialed in audience. Feels very much resolved, as is, but thought for sure that there would be some sort of finish like that.

Once Walt went into hiding we were forced into his isolation. The only things we knew, the only events we saw, were experienced by Walt.

Kraftster · Post by **Kraftster** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:52 pm

shmenguin wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
I didn't mean it in terms of being a transparent bluff (which I think it was, anyway), I just meant it was kind of awful writing.

It sounded like something Hedley Lamarr would have said to the assembled thugs outside Rock Ridge, not what Heisenberg would say in the series finale.
yeah, i cringed at that, myself. maybe the intent was for him to sound intentionally inauthentic to make fun of their lack of street smarts?

That was my thought.

Post by **shmenguin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:57 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
The only thing I really thought would be a part of the finale was some sort of final flash forward. Junior getting a certified letter from the Schwartz's lawyer, Brock getting a hand made box in the mail... some sort of final wink to a completely dialed in audience. Feels very much resolved, as is, but thought for sure that there would be some sort of finish like that.
Once Walt went into hiding we were forced into his isolation. The only things we knew, the only events we saw, were experienced by Walt.

the last couple episodes and the show as a whole weren't just from walt's point of view. jesse's dungeon life, todd and lydia finishing up their tea...they could have gotten away with a little montage at the end. if you're just showing the rubble left after hurricane heisenberg, you're still sticking with the walt-centric POV.

Post by **Gaucho** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:58 pm

I thought he was just being pragmatic and also having a bit of fun, because a more elaborate scheme would have been wasted on those two.

Pitt87 · Post by **Pitt87** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:34 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
The only thing I really thought would be a part of the finale was some sort of final flash forward. Junior getting a certified letter from the Schwartz's lawyer, Brock getting a hand made box in the mail... some sort of final wink to a completely dialed in audience. Feels very much resolved, as is, but thought for sure that there would be some sort of finish like that.
Once Walt went into hiding we were forced into his isolation. The only things we knew, the only events we saw, were experienced by Walt.

?

There was a lot that happened that Walt didn't know about. I don't think he knew about the hit that Lydia put on his wife or the entire Jesse vs. Todd storyline. I don't think he knew Jessie was alive until Charlie Rose told him that there was still blue meth on the streets, and in Prague, which is probably how he knew it was Todd & Lydia.

MWB · Post by **MWB** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:39 pm

shmenguin wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:

shmenguin wrote:
dman66 wrote:
I was very pleased with the ending. Glad Todd got his and glad Jesse can now do whatever he wants to.
That's the thing though...he can't do anything really. He has no money, no connections and he's almost certainly a fugitive. Jesse is basically driving that car right to jail.
Aside from Hank and Gomez, who in law enforcement knew Jesse was connected to Walter White/Heisenberg? Nothing official ever came of Hank finding out his brother-in-law was an arch criminal drug kingpin. I think Jesse gets away fine and dandy to make wooden boxes to his heart's content.
ok, but that would be predicated on the humungous big leap that:

A) skylar held back info about jesse in her testimony. sure, jesse could rat her out a little if they caught him, but that's not enough of a risk for her to withhold information to the people that are threatening here and ruining her life if she doesn't fully cooperate.
B) marie held back info about jesse. her husband's body is still missing, and she's not going to tell the authorities about the guy who was with him day and night right up to his death? does not compute.
C) and the DEA is going to leave loose ends lying around in the high profile murder of one of their own? not happening.

The ties between Jesse and Marie and skylar are very tenuous. None of them knew that how deep Jesse was in. Also, I assume that the cops would find the DVD that the nazis took from hank. That would be another piece that points to Walt as mastermind. How hard would the cops push to find Jesse? I don't think they would take it anywhere near the extent to what they did for Walt. They close the case with Walt. Jesse can make his way to Alaska and be left alone.

Post by **shmenguin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:19 pm

if anyone cared about finding hank's body (which i think the DEA would - and very much so), jesse would be the 2nd guy they'd be looking for, after walt. with their long history, marie would certainly suspect that jesse was involved in the murder.

Dickie Dunn · Post by **Dickie Dunn** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:43 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
The only thing I really thought would be a part of the finale was some sort of final flash forward. Junior getting a certified letter from the Schwartz's lawyer, Brock getting a hand made box in the mail... some sort of final wink to a completely dialed in audience. Feels very much resolved, as is, but thought for sure that there would be some sort of finish like that.
Once Walt went into hiding we were forced into his isolation. The only things we knew, the only events we saw, were experienced by Walt.
?

There was a lot that happened that Walt didn't know about. I don't think he knew about the hit that Lydia put on his wife or the entire Jesse vs. Todd storyline. I don't think he knew Jessie was alive until Charlie Rose told him that there was still blue meth on the streets, and in Prague, which is probably how he knew it was Todd & Lydia.

I'm speaking more from the time jump. We see what is going on with everyone until we get to Walt in the cabin paying Robert Forster 10 grand to spend an hour with him. Jesse the cook-slave, the threat on Skyler and the kids, etc. are the last things we experience independent of Walt. After that, we have newspaper clippings on the cabin wall and family info provided to us (Walt) from Forster. His phone call to Junior, the Charlie Rose interview (where he learns some info that we know but he doesn't), and the long trek back to ABQ are the re-introduction into the world after the months Walt spent in the cabin. The entire final episode is 100% Walt dependent. Even Marie's last scene only occurs because Walt is in the room with Skyler during the phone call. I think some kind of montage or epilogue would have been nice, but they chose to go another way. The story of Breaking Bad dies with Walter White.

MWB · Post by **MWB** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:42 pm

shmenguin wrote:
if anyone cared about finding hank's body (which i think the DEA would - and very much so), jesse would be the 2nd guy they'd be looking for, after walt. with their long history, marie would certainly suspect that jesse was involved in the murder.

But Walt gave Skylar the coordinates for where the bodies are, so that part is off the table. I didn't think Marie and Jesse had much of a history at all? Hank always viewed him as nothing special, up until the last few days of his life.

Post by **shmenguin** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:44 pm

MWB wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
if anyone cared about finding hank's body (which i think the DEA would - and very much so), jesse would be the 2nd guy they'd be looking for, after walt. with their long history, marie would certainly suspect that jesse was involved in the murder.
But Walt gave Skylar the coordinates for where the bodies are, so that part is off the table. I didn't think Marie and Jesse had much of a history at all? Hank always viewed him as nothing special, up until the last few days of his life.

well he did stay in her house for a few days right before her husband was murdered. and jesse was indirectly responsible for getting hank suspended from work. and he did make up the story about her being in the hospital. the have history, to say the least.

MWB · Post by **MWB** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:47 pm

Right, he was a drugged out meth-addict who her husband was trying to sober up to get info from to get Walt. Marie was all about getting Walt. Once Walt is dead and Hank is found, her interest is gone. I just don't think she'd have any desire to grind an ax with Jesse.

Mr. Colby · Post by **Mr. Colby** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:20 pm

shmenguin wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
I didn't mean it in terms of being a transparent bluff (which I think it was, anyway), I just meant it was kind of awful writing.

It sounded like something Hedley Lamarr would have said to the assembled thugs outside Rock Ridge, not what Heisenberg would say in the series finale.
yeah, i cringed at that, myself. maybe the intent was for him to sound intentionally inauthentic to make fun of their lack of street smarts?

That's the first thing I thought when that line was said - I think Walt was being careful... Elliot and Gretchen seemed pretty sheltered and so he gave them a movie-style line to give them a threat they can relate to as opposed to a real Heisenberg threat

Might be completely wrong, but going with that makes me feel better about it!

Mr. Colby · Post by **Mr. Colby** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:28 pm

No need for a montage at the end. Resolution was reached. Skyler had a proper goodbye with her husband, all the bad guys (and girl) died, no threat exists to jesse nor the white family any more, Jesse is free to live a life of his choosing provided he understands he should avoid DEA, Walt Jr. is about to get rich in 10 months and 2 days. Who really cares what actually happens to any of those people? They are all safe and free.

Notice Walt told Skyler he used all the money he had left to get back to ABQ. So even she has no idea the money being given to Walt Jr. is from Walt. She may suspect, but will never know for sure. The history of Gretchen trying to make things right financially with Walt and Walt's unwillingness to accept charity from them sheds doubt to that.

Post by **tifosi77** » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:32 pm

shmenguin wrote:
ok, but that would be predicated on the humungous big leap that:

A) skylar held back info about jesse in her testimony. sure, jesse could rat her out a little if they caught him, but that's not enough of a risk for her to withhold information to the people that are threatening here and ruining her life if she doesn't fully cooperate.
B) marie held back info about jesse. her husband's body is still missing, and she's not going to tell the authorities about the guy who was with him day and night right up to his death? does not compute.
C) and the DEA is going to leave loose ends lying around in the high profile murder of one of their own? not happening.

There isn't even any leap, never mind a humongous one.

A) Skyler revealing any further information about Jesse is effectively trumping what Walt did via the phone call at the end of "Ozymandias"; it would indicate Skyler had a deeper involvement with the Heisenberg operation. As things stood at the conclusion of series, there's no reason to suspect her of anything more than being quiet. But she starts spouting off about Jesse, that encourages the continuation of an investigation that would otherwise end with the cleaning out of the nazi compound...... and remember it was Skyler - not Walt - that was actually doing all the money laundering. And she also ran the tax evasion shenanigans for Ted. She wants nothing more than for everyone involved with law enforcement to just.... no longer be interested in her.

B) Walt gave Skylar the lottery ticket with the GPS coordinates of Hank and Gomez's burial site, the body(ies) won't be missing for long. Besides, what is Marie going to say? "Yeah, there was this one younger guy who worked with Walt.... Hank let him live here for a bit while he and Gomez ran their own bootleg investigation..." Yeah, that wouldn't exactly go over.

C) There is no loose end to tie up, as Jesse does not exist to the DEA. He was really known only to Hank and Gomez, at least in the context of the Heisenberg investigation. They'll find all of the Schrader/Gomez murder weapons and related paraphernalia in the nazi compound, and that will be that. There's no knowledge of why Hank came to be in the desert with Walt, and since both those people are gone, it's an investigatory dead end.

A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

Re: A little late, but... Breaking Bad???