Non-Pirates Baseball Thread

[Idoit40fans]

So glad biggio got in. The braves pitching trinity is now complete.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

they're the best four of the class so I have no problem with them and just them.


best four non 'roiders, I mean.

[Troy Loney]

Were Bonds and Clemens first ballot last year?

edit (meaning on the ballot for the first time)

[MWB]

Since they're not going to vote in steroid users, don't have an issue with this. Piazza should get in next year, looks like. So I guess if it's pretty obvious you've juiced, you'll never get in. If there's some mumblings you've used, you have to wait a few years.

[Idoit40fans]

Was piazza ever suspected? Ive blacked out as much of that stuff as possible. If not, How is he not first ballot?

[columbia]

Pedro Martinez is probably my favorite player of the last 25 years. Big ups!

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

Was piazza ever suspected? Ive blacked out as much of that stuff as possible. If not, How is he not first ballot?

I legitimately couldn't remember and the only reference to steroids in his Wiki is

[21] On January 9, 2013, Piazza failed to be elected to Baseball Hall of Fame receiving only 57.8% of the votes falling short of the 75% qualifying votes. He stated that he would address the performance-enhancing drugs and steroid rumors in his book Long Shot

so it's one of those "people have thrown his name out there in rumors but there isn't anything substantial"

[MWB]

Murray Chass and Joel Sherman have both speculated about his use. Chass even went so far as to say he knew Piazza used. There was a lot of rumblings about his back acne. So nothing firm, but speculation. I'm sure others also think that a guy who was drafted so late must have had some help.

[MWB]

Pedro Martinez is probably my favorite player of the last 25 years. Big ups!

Favorite player? Foe'd

That said, I'm surprised he didn't get a higher percentage. He was lights out.

[KennyTheKangaroo]

The only way to describe the big unit is awesome.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

[canaan]

Is Mattingly really not hof material?

Why does the baseball hof seem so arbitrarily full of drama and argument?

[MWB]

No, Mattingly is not, unfortunately. He was awesome, but not for long enough. His back let him down.

[columbia]

I'd say it's because the various halls of fame induct too many players. With more stringent standards, it would be much easier to discern the truly elite from the "they were pretty awesome."
It's part of the reason that I can't get too worked up about whom gets inducted....the horse left the barn a long time ago.

[canaan]

I have a completely different scale of what the hall of fame is supposed to represent, I guess.

In my view, the hof should be a place where people can take their kids and talk about the best players from their day and continue on the tradition of loving the sport and those that have done it well. This doesn't lend to mean only generational talents, but players that at one point or another made an impact on the league and those that played/watched it. Mattingly fit that bill in my eyes. 13 years or so as a ballplayer--6 time all-star, iirc.

One day, the hall of fame will be devoid of people that genuinely want to go to relive and remember the players that they watched that evoked great memories of their days reveling in the sport. It shouldn't be a measurement of today's greats against the greats of 80 years ago. It was a different game then and shouldn't be compared statistically and/or stylistically.

There are a lot of guys that are not in pro sports hall of fame's because of some misguided ideal that their centers of remembering the greats of a particular era should more closely mirror the outside of a **** night club and not a sports history museum.

[MWB]

I never really thought of it that way, but it's an interesting perspective. In that case, Mattingly would definitely be in for me as well. He was my favorite player growing up. Was so happy for him when he finally made the playoffs. Would've loved for him to last one more year.

I've never been to the Hall, but aren't there different elements for all the eras that celebrate more than just the guys who have the plaques?

[columbia]

Dave Parker was is my favorite ball player, but him being eligible for the Hall of Fame was pretty silly...and maybe even ridiculous. But I guess it depends on what one wants from the whole thing.

[FreeCandy44]

So which one of you gave Darin Erstad his one vote?

[MWB]

So looking more at the recent HOF vote. How is it possible that Smoltz gets in easily but Schilling isn't close? And why is Biggio in, but Bagwell not? I guess for the latter you could say that position difference is the deciding factor. But in cases like these, when players are from the same era, some of the votes just seem odd.

[Troy Loney]

Biggio has 3000 hits, I think that's almost a guaranty you get in. I guess Bagwell doesn't have any of those high profile career statistics?

Not sure with Smoltz vs Schilling. I guess because they have a very similar w/l record, but Smoltz has the 150 saves on top of that.

[Idoit40fans]

Yeah smoktz looks the same as schilling as a starter but also has that stretch as a dominant closer.

Biggio...on top of the hits, was effective at catcher, middle infield, and center field.

[MWB]

Yeah, the 3000 hits is a guarantee, but Biggio seems like more of a compiler of stats.
Schilling had more k's in less innings and postseason stats that were great. Just wonder how much of s bump Smoltz got from being part of the big three.

[Idoit40fans]

You look at Smoltz vs Schilling post season and try to pick who's better. Its tough. Smoltz was a god in the post season.

[Troy Loney]

Wasn't Schilling kind of an ***?

I wonder if he's irked plenty of those voters over the years. Meanwhile Smoltz transitioned almost seamlessly into a prominent broadcasting role.

[MWB]

Yeah, Smoltz was great in the postseason as well, and did it over a longer period. I dont think that stretch as a great reliever should equate to 250 more votes for Smoltz. And yes, I'm sure that their personalities plays into the voting as well.