Random Penguins Fodder

[Pitts]

Berube hired by the Leafs.

So, what do you think?
For some reason, I just don't see Berube as a Stanley Cup coach. He was a meathead as a player.

[BigMcK]

Berube hired by the Leafs.

So, what do you think?
For some reason, I just don't see Berube as a Stanley Cup coach. He was a meathead as a player.

I foresee him climbing the plexiglass shield behind the bench to put a beatdown on some fan who calls him a meathead, all with a shoe in hand...

Ala....???

[FLPensFan]

Berube hired by the Leafs.

So, what do you think?
For some reason, I just don't see Berube as a Stanley Cup coach. He was a meathead as a player.

I don't really see him as the coach to take them to the next level and get them over the hump. So, perfect Leafs hire. LOL

[BigMcK]

Not specifically Penguins related, but is there a website / blog, that ranks by team: first round pick / rating over the past five, ten years?

Basically; Jim Thomas, First Round pick of Phoenix in 2017 has accomplished Stanley Cup, Phil McKracken, First Round pick of Montreal flamed out after being the First Round pick in 2013.

I guess I am curious which team picks winners (not specifically for the team that drafted them), but went on to Stanley Cup success.

Which team picks winners and which team picks non-winners?

[Pens4Life]

Berube hired by the Leafs.

So, what do you think?
For some reason, I just don't see Berube as a Stanley Cup coach. He was a meathead as a player.

Well he won the Cup with Blues...

[FLPensFan]

Not specifically Penguins related, but is there a website / blog, that ranks by team: first round pick / rating over the past five, ten years?

Basically; Jim Thomas, First Round pick of Phoenix in 2017 has accomplished Stanley Cup, Phil McKracken, First Round pick of Montreal flamed out after being the First Round pick in 2013.

I guess I am curious which team picks winners (not specifically for the team that drafted them), but went on to Stanley Cup success.

Which team picks winners and which team picks non-winners?

LMAO...read this two times, thinking you were TELLING ME there is a site like this, and I'm just thinking "Does he really think Jim Thomas and Phil McKraken are real people?" LOL

I haven't seen a site like that, but that would be interesting. My simple go-to for this is going to Hockeydb.com, and looking at a team's draft history. They show year by year what picks they had, and how many NHL games /points that player had. It's pretty easy to scroll through one team, get an idea of their hits and misses, then look at another team and see who was better.

For example, Pittsburgh and Boston have been pretty identical in terms of Cup success and playoff success over the past 10 years. If I look at PIT and BOS draft success from 2023 back to 2013, I see the following:
--BOS traded away their 1st rounder 5 times during that period; PIT traded it away 7 times
--BOS picked Pastranak 25th in 2014, DeBrusk 14th in 2015, McAvoy 14th in 2016. Those are their 3 best 1st rounders during that period, above lottery
--PIT picked Kapanen 22nd in 2014. Poulin is the only other 1st rounder in that range to play an NHL game. (notice Pastranak went 3 picks after Kapanen)
--BOS picked Danton Heinen, Anders Bjork, and Jeremy Swayman in rounds 4 or higher
--PIT picked Lafferty and Simon in rounds 4 or higher
--Looking at recent years, since 2020 draft, BOS had 2 picks that have played NHL games to date: Mason Lohrei and Matthew Poitras
--Looking at recent years, since 2020 draft, PIT has zero picks that have played an NHL game.

Looking at just those 2 teams, it's easy to see Pittsburgh lags behind Boston in hitting on picks, hitting on meaningful late round picks, quality of players, etc. A little defense for PIT is that, BOS had a 2 year playoff drought stretch in the middle, where they loaded up on picks and hit on picks. That 2015 draft, BOS had 3 1st, 3 2nds, and a 3rd. Out of those 7 picks, they hit solidly on 3-4 (DeBrusk, Carlo, Jeremy Lauzon...plus goalie Dan Vladar and Jakob Zboril). DeBrusk and Carlo (plus McAvoy the year after) were instrumental in reloading of some youth. 2016, they hit on McAvoy (1st), Trent Frederic (1st), and Ryan Lindgren (2nd). From 2015 to 2017, the Bruins drafted 9 players that have played over 100 NHL games.

Pittsburgh just missed the playoffs 2 years in a row...but, they did not wisely sell off, hoard picks, and make a bunch of good picks to restock. Pittsburgh's last really good draft was 2012, where we took Pouliot, Maatta, Blueger, Sundqvist, and Murray.

Some recent (last few years) articles on the subject:

--The Athletic did a look (Here) at best drafting teams from 2007 to present (2023). Penguins ranked 15th overall, highly bolstered by that 2012 draft that I mentioned. Here's what the Athletic said about them overall:

Pittsburgh’s drafting has been lackluster lately, and the overall 12-year stretch didn’t produce many high-end players, but the bigger problem is that the club made just one first-round pick across six drafts from 2013-2018.

--In 2021, the Athletic had another article HERE about this going back to 2007.

Spoiler:

[Puck-Lurker]

Sullivan hired as coach for the US in '25 Four Nations and '26 Winter Olympics in Milan.

We all saw this coming, at least.

[FLPensFan]

Sullivan hired as coach for the US in '25 Four Nations and '26 Winter Olympics in Milan.

We all saw this coming, at least.

So with the Sullivan to Bylsma parallel timeline, Sullivan should be fired next summer...

[Sigwolf]

I'm just thinking "Does he really think Jim Thomas and Phil McKraken are real people?" LOL

Phil was just never a good enough skater to play professional hockey. His twin brother Bill, on the other hand, played some minor pro hockey in the 50's...

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdi ... ?pid=13836

[BigMcK]

Not specifically Penguins related, but is there a website / blog, that ranks by team: first round pick / rating over the past five, ten years?

Basically; Jim Thomas, First Round pick of Phoenix in 2017 has accomplished Stanley Cup, Phil McKracken, First Round pick of Montreal flamed out after being the First Round pick in 2013.

I guess I am curious which team picks winners (not specifically for the team that drafted them), but went on to Stanley Cup success.

Which team picks winners and which team picks non-winners?

LMAO...read this two times, thinking you were TELLING ME there is a site like this, and I'm just thinking "Does he really think Jim Thomas and Phil McKraken are real people?" LOL

I haven't seen a site like that, but that would be interesting. My simple go-to for this is going to Hockeydb.com, and looking at a team's draft history. They show year by year what picks they had, and how many NHL games /points that player had. It's pretty easy to scroll through one team, get an idea of their hits and misses, then look at another team and see who was better.

For example, Pittsburgh and Boston have been pretty identical in terms of Cup success and playoff success over the past 10 years. If I look at PIT and BOS draft success from 2023 back to 2013, I see the following:
--BOS traded away their 1st rounder 5 times during that period; PIT traded it away 7 times
--BOS picked Pastranak 25th in 2014, DeBrusk 14th in 2015, McAvoy 14th in 2016. Those are their 3 best 1st rounders during that period, above lottery
--PIT picked Kapanen 22nd in 2014. Poulin is the only other 1st rounder in that range to play an NHL game. (notice Pastranak went 3 picks after Kapanen)
--BOS picked Danton Heinen, Anders Bjork, and Jeremy Swayman in rounds 4 or higher
--PIT picked Lafferty and Simon in rounds 4 or higher
--Looking at recent years, since 2020 draft, BOS had 2 picks that have played NHL games to date: Mason Lohrei and Matthew Poitras
--Looking at recent years, since 2020 draft, PIT has zero picks that have played an NHL game.

Looking at just those 2 teams, it's easy to see Pittsburgh lags behind Boston in hitting on picks, hitting on meaningful late round picks, quality of players, etc. A little defense for PIT is that, BOS had a 2 year playoff drought stretch in the middle, where they loaded up on picks and hit on picks. That 2015 draft, BOS had 3 1st, 3 2nds, and a 3rd. Out of those 7 picks, they hit solidly on 3-4 (DeBrusk, Carlo, Jeremy Lauzon...plus goalie Dan Vladar and Jakob Zboril). DeBrusk and Carlo (plus McAvoy the year after) were instrumental in reloading of some youth. 2016, they hit on McAvoy (1st), Trent Frederic (1st), and Ryan Lindgren (2nd). From 2015 to 2017, the Bruins drafted 9 players that have played over 100 NHL games.

Pittsburgh just missed the playoffs 2 years in a row...but, they did not wisely sell off, hoard picks, and make a bunch of good picks to restock. Pittsburgh's last really good draft was 2012, where we took Pouliot, Maatta, Blueger, Sundqvist, and Murray.

Some recent (last few years) articles on the subject:

--The Athletic did a look (Here) at best drafting teams from 2007 to present (2023). Penguins ranked 15th overall, highly bolstered by that 2012 draft that I mentioned. Here's what the Athletic said about them overall:

Pittsburgh’s drafting has been lackluster lately, and the overall 12-year stretch didn’t produce many high-end players, but the bigger problem is that the club made just one first-round pick across six drafts from 2013-2018.

--In 2021, the Athletic had another article HERE about this going back to 2007.

Spoiler:

I figured you would be the source of the info that I was searching for. I am also amazed regarding the numbers for the Penguins, as shown on the second set of data. I thought they would be worse. 135 picks for the Hawks? Talk about missing the mark, repeatedly.

Thanks for providing the answers and in-depth analysis.

Oh, Phil McKracken is an outstanding name for a hockey player...

[FLPensFan]

Would you trade Reilly Smith (50% retained) to Florida for Evan Rodrigues? (Florida may wash Smith through a 3rd team to reduce cap)
Would you trade Ryan Graves to Carolina for Jesper Kotkaniemi? (swap of two underachieving players)
Would you trade Noel Acciari and a pick to Nashville for Colton Sissons? (not much reason for NSH to do this)
Would you trade Brayden Yager to Ottawa for Shane Pinto? (OTT may be more keen on "rushing" Yager; OTT needs cheap players)

[pens_CT]

Would you trade Reilly Smith (50% retained) to Florida for Evan Rodrigues? (Florida may wash Smith through a 3rd team to reduce cap)
Would you trade Ryan Graves to Carolina for Jesper Kotkaniemi? (swap of two underachieving players)
Would you trade Noel Acciari and a pick to Nashville for Colton Sissons? (not much reason for NSH to do this)
Would you trade Brayden Yager to Ottawa for Shane Pinto? (OTT may be more keen on "rushing" Yager; OTT needs cheap players)

Yes to the first three, but I wouldn't be trading Yager at this point. I think he has a real chance to make the NHL roster next season maybe starting at wing before he eventually transitions to Center.

[100565]

Between 2013-2023

Boston had 9 first round picks.
Pittsburgh had 4 first round picks.

Bos had 4 top 15 drafts picks.
Pit had 1 top 15 drafts picks. (Yager)

Prior to last two drafts (players not given enough time to develop) the Pens had 2 first round draft picks. Boston has had 9.

Over the past 10 drafts, Boston has had more success drafting but have had more quality opportunities for success.

Also, Guentzel and Jarry were picked in rounds 2 and 3 between 2013-2023.

I would trade Yager for Pinto but I don’t think OTT accepts unless Pit adds.

[Pens4Life]

Would you trade Reilly Smith (50% retained) to Florida for Evan Rodrigues? (Florida may wash Smith through a 3rd team to reduce cap)
Would you trade Ryan Graves to Carolina for Jesper Kotkaniemi? (swap of two underachieving players)
Would you trade Noel Acciari and a pick to Nashville for Colton Sissons? (not much reason for NSH to do this)
Would you trade Brayden Yager to Ottawa for Shane Pinto? (OTT may be more keen on "rushing" Yager; OTT needs cheap players)

1. No - maybe at 25% retained max for Smith, straight swap yes
2. Yes
3. No, Acciari is just badly missused by Sully..
4. No, as I said before, I dont want to trade Poulin/Koivunen/Yager for Pinto

Btw. Puljujarvi with 2 goals vs Canada and Puustinen with 1,both noticable as all games so far at World Championships

[Sams_Dog]

(notice Pastranak went 3 picks after Kapanen)

This is painful to read. Not only did we pick Kapanen but we traded ANOTHER first rounder to get him back again.

[Pitts]

Berube hired by the Leafs.

So, what do you think?
For some reason, I just don't see Berube as a Stanley Cup coach. He was a meathead as a player.

Well he won the Cup with Blues...

That may be true, but I feel like that Blues win was a real fluke. That was definitely a team that somehow came together at just the right moment. I really do not feel like Berube will be able to get the Leafs any farther than they are right now. And, maybe it's not so much the coach as it is the players and roster construction.

[Pitts]

(notice Pastranak went 3 picks after Kapanen)

This is painful to read. Not only did we pick Kapanen but we traded ANOTHER first rounder to get him back again.

All drafts are full of these type of misses. The most blatant of them all was the Forsberg miss in 2012. We all knew he should have been the pick.

[FLPensFan]

Aleksander Barkov won the Selke last week. Saw the voting list...Crosby finished 9th. Barkov, Staal, Matthews, Reinhart, Kopitar, Hintz, Lowry, and Jarvis were the 8 players voted ahead of Crosby.

[FLPensFan]

Canes extend Brind'Amour and all his staff. Pesce and Skjei have made it known that they want to find a way to stay. (they were d-partners). Guentzel would like to return. Lot of other UFA/RFA types there as well.

Also saw that the Canes will also be seeking a right-shot center (something the Penguins are going to need).

[Daniel]

(notice Pastranak went 3 picks after Kapanen)

This is painful to read. Not only did we pick Kapanen but we traded ANOTHER first rounder to get him back again.

All drafts are full of these type of misses. The most blatant of them all was the Forsberg miss in 2012. We all knew he should have been the pick.

One thing with draft picks is as much as they're hit or miss it's also location dependant a lot of times. Just because Forsberg and Pastranek have had nice careers doesn't mean it would have been the same in Pittsburgh, where they'd have likely been 21-23 before even playing at the NHL level. The Penguins don't have a real good track record of developing players so drafting eventual All Stars doesn't mean much when a team would rather get Mark Jankowski and hold a young player back.

[KG]

Aleksander Barkov won the Selke last week. Saw the voting list...Crosby finished 9th. Barkov, Staal, Matthews, Reinhart, Kopitar, Hintz, Lowry, and Jarvis were the 8 players voted ahead of Crosby.

Pens coaching staff (assume it will remain Sullivan) should consider using Sid on the PK. Look at other bigtime teams, they use their stars to PK as well. Sid has a strong enough 2-way game to PK. Geno I wouldn't use on the PK but Sid could certainly PK and be a short-handed threat.

There have been a lot of SHG's in the playoffs so far. PK doesn't have to be only 4th line plugs. Just like your 4th line doesn't have to be just PK plugs.

[Pitts]

Aleksander Barkov won the Selke last week. Saw the voting list...Crosby finished 9th. Barkov, Staal, Matthews, Reinhart, Kopitar, Hintz, Lowry, and Jarvis were the 8 players voted ahead of Crosby.

Pens coaching staff (assume it will remain Sullivan) should consider using Sid on the PK. Look at other bigtime teams, they use their stars to PK as well. Sid has a strong enough 2-way game to PK. Geno I wouldn't use on the PK but Sid could certainly PK and be a short-handed threat.

There have been a lot of SHG's in the playoffs so far. PK doesn't have to be only 4th line plugs. Just like your 4th line doesn't have to be just PK plugs.

I never understood why Crosby isn't used on the PK. I wonder if that is his choice though. You would think having Crosby up high on the PK was a common sense decision.

[FLPensFan]

Aleksander Barkov won the Selke last week. Saw the voting list...Crosby finished 9th. Barkov, Staal, Matthews, Reinhart, Kopitar, Hintz, Lowry, and Jarvis were the 8 players voted ahead of Crosby.

Pens coaching staff (assume it will remain Sullivan) should consider using Sid on the PK. Look at other bigtime teams, they use their stars to PK as well. Sid has a strong enough 2-way game to PK. Geno I wouldn't use on the PK but Sid could certainly PK and be a short-handed threat.

There have been a lot of SHG's in the playoffs so far. PK doesn't have to be only 4th line plugs. Just like your 4th line doesn't have to be just PK plugs.

I never understood why Crosby isn't used on the PK. I wonder if that is his choice though. You would think having Crosby up high on the PK was a common sense decision.

IIRC, with a rash of injuries occurring league-wide from shot blocking 8-10 years ago, a decision was made not to increase the injury risk to Sid by having him PK. They slowly started using him if they could send him over the boards on maybe the last 30 seconds of a PK, but that's about it.

[Cow_Master66]

Ya they undoubtedly don't want to risk the broken ankles/feet/hands that come along with playing up high...

[DelPen]

Wonder if there a trade to be made that’s Graves and Smith for a forward with a similar combined cap hit for about 3-4 more years that is just not fitting in and that team is desperate for a LD.