Where do we go from here?

[Daniel]

Okay, "Devil's Advocate" post here.

I've opined on whether Mike Sullivan is the coach for this team and have felt that he wasn't for quite a few years. However, if the Pens really are in rebuild mode (even if they're not admitting to it), could Sullivan be the guy to rebuild this team?

A quote from a post I made back in March:

A good coach will formulate a style of play that will allow his team to be most successful. He'll build a system around the tools he has in his arsenal. Sullivan forces his players to play his style, squeezing square pegs into round holes. He's trying to enter a 1987 Yugo into a Formula One race! You can't play a speed game if you don't have team speed. The Pens haven't had team speed for quite a few years.

But if the Pens get a lot younger and a lot faster, would he be the guy to coach that team? He's had success with youth and speed in the past, and did a great job putting guys into roles where they could succeed. I'd actually be curious to see what he's capable of without any constraints of deferring to The Big Three that he may be operating under. Don't get me wrong - Scotty Bowman, he's not. Bowman was the master of changing styles to match his teams' strengths. But in this hypothetical scenario of having a youth-and-speed team, he's a youth-and-speed coach. Could he be the fit that the post-Big Three needs?

I don't think he's the right guy to coach a younger/faster team. I think he's become stale and we've seen too many variations of this team to think he'd make any team better.

[Puck-Lurker]

Okay, "Devil's Advocate" post here.

I've opined on whether Mike Sullivan is the coach for this team and have felt that he wasn't for quite a few years. However, if the Pens really are in rebuild mode (even if they're not admitting to it), could Sullivan be the guy to rebuild this team?

A quote from a post I made back in March:

A good coach will formulate a style of play that will allow his team to be most successful. He'll build a system around the tools he has in his arsenal. Sullivan forces his players to play his style, squeezing square pegs into round holes. He's trying to enter a 1987 Yugo into a Formula One race! You can't play a speed game if you don't have team speed. The Pens haven't had team speed for quite a few years.

But if the Pens get a lot younger and a lot faster, would he be the guy to coach that team? He's had success with youth and speed in the past, and did a great job putting guys into roles where they could succeed. I'd actually be curious to see what he's capable of without any constraints of deferring to The Big Three that he may be operating under. Don't get me wrong - Scotty Bowman, he's not. Bowman was the master of changing styles to match his teams' strengths. But in this hypothetical scenario of having a youth-and-speed team, he's a youth-and-speed coach. Could he be the fit that the post-Big Three needs?

I don't think he's the right guy to coach a younger/faster team. I think he's become stale and we've seen too many variations of this team to think he'd make any team better.

I think he's a pretty good coach for a team that's already good and built to win. He can give you an extra little push. But we are not such a team, haven't been for a long, long time. If he would move from team to team, each time going to a cup contender, I reckon he'd have an amazing record.

Sullivan is about the last person I want in a rebuild.

[FLPensFan]

Okay, "Devil's Advocate" post here.

I've opined on whether Mike Sullivan is the coach for this team and have felt that he wasn't for quite a few years. However, if the Pens really are in rebuild mode (even if they're not admitting to it), could Sullivan be the guy to rebuild this team?

A quote from a post I made back in March:

A good coach will formulate a style of play that will allow his team to be most successful. He'll build a system around the tools he has in his arsenal. Sullivan forces his players to play his style, squeezing square pegs into round holes. He's trying to enter a 1987 Yugo into a Formula One race! You can't play a speed game if you don't have team speed. The Pens haven't had team speed for quite a few years.

But if the Pens get a lot younger and a lot faster, would he be the guy to coach that team? He's had success with youth and speed in the past, and did a great job putting guys into roles where they could succeed. I'd actually be curious to see what he's capable of without any constraints of deferring to The Big Three that he may be operating under. Don't get me wrong - Scotty Bowman, he's not. Bowman was the master of changing styles to match his teams' strengths. But in this hypothetical scenario of having a youth-and-speed team, he's a youth-and-speed coach. Could he be the fit that the post-Big Three needs?

I don't think he's the right guy to coach a younger/faster team. I think he's become stale and we've seen too many variations of this team to think he'd make any team better.

I too am in the camp that he isn't the right guy anymore. By all accounts, Sullivan DOES make adjustments. I just don't think they are big swings like we might expect or think is needed. I think he still keeps the basis of his system, which to me, just no longer works. As jeffshly said, a good coach can formulate a style of play to work with the players he has. By my account, Sullivan is still trying to shoehorn his Cup winning style onto this team, he has some say into who or the types of players that are brought in, and it continues to not work.

There's always this back and forth every few years about speed vs heavy teams. I went to the Panthers vs Jets game Saturday night. It was great to see two teams that are able to play both a speed game and a heavy game, and can adapt that style of play to their opponent. I've seen Florida play a heavy game against bigger teams, like a Winnipeg, and I've seen Florida be able to play a speed game against the good, younger teams in the league. It was nice to see some guys actually throw the body around in a clean way, get into some scrums, and not cower away and let their 6'2" beanpole defenseman be their "goon."

This team badly needs more of a Kunitz/Hornqvist/Tanev element in their lineup and as part of their system moving forward. It would be nice to see this team try and be a bit dangerous when SH, and have the ability to attack while SH. We did that once too when Hagelin was here. Philly hasn't been a great team recently, but their PK last year was 4th overall and had 17 SHG scored at 4 on 5 play. Make the PK a threat, and that helps make the PK that much more effective.

[100565]

Sully is perfect coach for a couple years. It increases chances being bad for top 5 picks.

I’m not opposed to moving anyone but I don’t think too many would get much value. What would Letang return. Full nmc. On the downside of career. Signed multi year. Rakell would be same. Not many contenders (buyers) have cap space for Rakell’s contract. I could see an off-season trade, but not too sure about now. Pettersson is as good as gone. Hopefully, a low first?? DOC probably and Pulajarvi.

[Daniel]

Okay, "Devil's Advocate" post here.

I've opined on whether Mike Sullivan is the coach for this team and have felt that he wasn't for quite a few years. However, if the Pens really are in rebuild mode (even if they're not admitting to it), could Sullivan be the guy to rebuild this team?

A quote from a post I made back in March:

A good coach will formulate a style of play that will allow his team to be most successful. He'll build a system around the tools he has in his arsenal. Sullivan forces his players to play his style, squeezing square pegs into round holes. He's trying to enter a 1987 Yugo into a Formula One race! You can't play a speed game if you don't have team speed. The Pens haven't had team speed for quite a few years.

But if the Pens get a lot younger and a lot faster, would he be the guy to coach that team? He's had success with youth and speed in the past, and did a great job putting guys into roles where they could succeed. I'd actually be curious to see what he's capable of without any constraints of deferring to The Big Three that he may be operating under. Don't get me wrong - Scotty Bowman, he's not. Bowman was the master of changing styles to match his teams' strengths. But in this hypothetical scenario of having a youth-and-speed team, he's a youth-and-speed coach. Could he be the fit that the post-Big Three needs?

I don't think he's the right guy to coach a younger/faster team. I think he's become stale and we've seen too many variations of this team to think he'd make any team better.

I too am in the camp that he isn't the right guy anymore. By all accounts, Sullivan DOES make adjustments. I just don't think they are big swings like we might expect or think is needed. I think he still keeps the basis of his system, which to me, just no longer works. As jeffshly said, a good coach can formulate a style of play to work with the players he has. By my account, Sullivan is still trying to shoehorn his Cup winning style onto this team, he has some say into who or the types of players that are brought in, and it continues to not work.

There's always this back and forth every few years about speed vs heavy teams. I went to the Panthers vs Jets game Saturday night. It was great to see two teams that are able to play both a speed game and a heavy game, and can adapt that style of play to their opponent. I've seen Florida play a heavy game against bigger teams, like a Winnipeg, and I've seen Florida be able to play a speed game against the good, younger teams in the league. It was nice to see some guys actually throw the body around in a clean way, get into some scrums, and not cower away and let their 6'2" beanpole defenseman be their "goon."

This team badly needs more of a Kunitz/Hornqvist/Tanev element in their lineup and as part of their system moving forward. It would be nice to see this team try and be a bit dangerous when SH, and have the ability to attack while SH. We did that once too when Hagelin was here. Philly hasn't been a great team recently, but their PK last year was 4th overall and had 17 SHG scored at 4 on 5 play. Make the PK a threat, and that helps make the PK that much more effective.

With Poulin, Puljujärvi, O’Connor, the Penguins might have guys who can play more of a heavy game. Puljujärvi will hit, Poulin has 2 per game and will have to hit to stay in the NHL in my opinion and O’Connor has the size to do it.

[Maestro]

It’s definitely time to wheel and deal. All the vets should go. Tie Jarry to 1 of them. Clean house.

[largegarlic]

Okay, "Devil's Advocate" post here.

I've opined on whether Mike Sullivan is the coach for this team and have felt that he wasn't for quite a few years. However, if the Pens really are in rebuild mode (even if they're not admitting to it), could Sullivan be the guy to rebuild this team?

A quote from a post I made back in March:

A good coach will formulate a style of play that will allow his team to be most successful. He'll build a system around the tools he has in his arsenal. Sullivan forces his players to play his style, squeezing square pegs into round holes. He's trying to enter a 1987 Yugo into a Formula One race! You can't play a speed game if you don't have team speed. The Pens haven't had team speed for quite a few years.

But if the Pens get a lot younger and a lot faster, would he be the guy to coach that team? He's had success with youth and speed in the past, and did a great job putting guys into roles where they could succeed. I'd actually be curious to see what he's capable of without any constraints of deferring to The Big Three that he may be operating under. Don't get me wrong - Scotty Bowman, he's not. Bowman was the master of changing styles to match his teams' strengths. But in this hypothetical scenario of having a youth-and-speed team, he's a youth-and-speed coach. Could he be the fit that the post-Big Three needs?

I've floated this idea too. I'm not sure I believe it, but I don't know why else they're hanging on to Sullivan at this point.

[brwi]

I've floated this idea too. I'm not sure I believe it, but I don't know why else they're hanging on to Sullivan at this point.

I think it's purely financial. Fire him now and you'll likely be paying him the rest of the season. Fire him right after Game 82 and he'll likely be hired shortly thereafter and FSG is out from under that terrible extension and won't have to pay him to sit at home.

[EndO FanEra]

If I were Dubas, I would listen to offers on everyone not named Crosby, with an eye on getting as many higher end picks as possible. Quality over quantity, unlike his Jake deal. I know it's easier said than done, especially with the current roster and their level of play, but there should be ways.

We have cap space now, so we can take on a bad contract or 2 or eat a big chunk of a contract. Or perhaps add one of our other lower picks in to move up a round coming the other way.

I really hope we can manage at least one more 1st, and another 2nd or two. After the 1st, and especially the 2nd, it becomes such a crap shoot. And if someone does happen to pan out, it's likely further down the road in playing years. Even collecting 2nds and 3rds to try and trade up into the 1st at the draft is an option.

I was surprised on the Eller trade. I thought he was someone we could hang onto until the deadline and possibly get a 2nd for, at least a 2025 3rd. Plus, I think he would be good to have around for some of the young guys you might be calling up. I'd rather have his tenacity and relentlessness setting an example for them instead of some of the other bad habits this team has. But, I'm happy for him and would welcome him back in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, Petey is probably our only real shot at a 1st, unless we find a way to really sweeten another deal.

[EndO FanEra]

As for Mike Sullivan, I think I'd prefer him gone sooner rather than later. Let an assistant take over as interim for the rest of the season.

That said, if we really are trading everyone off this season and rebuilding to an extent, I could see waiting until the end of the season to make the move. There will be a lot of roster turn over and call ups, and at this point, there's no sense in trying to install a new system w/ the core and a bunch of others rotating in and out.

But, you absolutely HAVE TO make the move at the end of this season.

[Daniel]

Okay, "Devil's Advocate" post here.

I've opined on whether Mike Sullivan is the coach for this team and have felt that he wasn't for quite a few years. However, if the Pens really are in rebuild mode (even if they're not admitting to it), could Sullivan be the guy to rebuild this team?

A quote from a post I made back in March:

A good coach will formulate a style of play that will allow his team to be most successful. He'll build a system around the tools he has in his arsenal. Sullivan forces his players to play his style, squeezing square pegs into round holes. He's trying to enter a 1987 Yugo into a Formula One race! You can't play a speed game if you don't have team speed. The Pens haven't had team speed for quite a few years.

But if the Pens get a lot younger and a lot faster, would he be the guy to coach that team? He's had success with youth and speed in the past, and did a great job putting guys into roles where they could succeed. I'd actually be curious to see what he's capable of without any constraints of deferring to The Big Three that he may be operating under. Don't get me wrong - Scotty Bowman, he's not. Bowman was the master of changing styles to match his teams' strengths. But in this hypothetical scenario of having a youth-and-speed team, he's a youth-and-speed coach. Could he be the fit that the post-Big Three needs?

I've floated this idea too. I'm not sure I believe it, but I don't know why else they're hanging on to Sullivan at this point.

Kirk MacDonald seems to have done a pretty good job at WBS. I wonder if maybe they’re taking a wait and see approach with him to replace Sullivan.

[cojac]

We are just about 1/4 of the way into the season. The team is last in goals allowed, last in goal differential, and currently sit 5th worst overall by points percentage. We are actually behind last year's points pace, and the PP is better but still less than middle of the pack. The team is toast. There is no more "doing the right thing for Sid and the core." They aren't performing, the team isn't performing, and there is simply no way to magically get this team into playoff contender position this season, or likely any upcoming future seasons. Dubas and FSG need to face that harsh reality. Instead of half assing it in an attempt to sneak into the playoffs while hurting your ability to fully embrace the future, we need to be 100% forward looking from here on out. What does that look like/what would I do?

1) Fire Sullivan. These last 2 seasons have been an embarrassment. We need to stop the narrative that there's nothing wrong on a coaching level. If the players aren't executing, then it's the coaches job to get them back on track. Sullivan won't do the necessary evils and bench THE RIGHT GUYS, or yell at the right guys behind closed doors. His accountability towards the veterans is his downfall. It's time he steps aside, so that we can get a better look at a few players under a different mindset. I'd name Vellucci the interim head coach for the rest of the year. He has been interviewing more and more for outside head coaching roles. Give him some experience that may help him land his next NHL gig somewhere else.

2) If possible, trade Ned and a 2027 4th to Carolina for CAR 2025 2nd. Andersen is out long term. He's 35, 1M more expensive than Ned, and a UFA at the end of the season. Acquiring Ned lets Kochetchov take over as the starter, and gives CAR a solid NHL backup that can split starts if needed. Ned isn't the goalie we want to move, but he's 1000x easier to move than Jarry. You bring Blomqvist back up and let him push Jarry for starts. You bring Murashov back up to the AHL, and when Gauthier returns, you let Gauthier and Murashov rotate in and out of Wheeling and let the better player remain in WBS.

3) Acciari, Hayes, Beauvillier, Pettersson, DOC, Nieto and Grzelcyk should be made available (they likely already are). They are all UFAs next season and should be the easier pieces to move. Try to move one or two of them ahead of the deadline.

4) Start rotating guys up from WBS to get 10 game stints at the NHL level. To be clear, most of the guys in WBS are not ready for full time NHL duty, especially trying to come up and play under the train wreck that we currently have. But, give Aho a chance to come up and show that he can do better than Grzelcyk, Shea, and St. Ivany. Reward Broz and Koivunen. Get Pickering and Ponomarev into their stretch of games. A lot of these guys may not be fully ready now, but, giving them a 10 game stint...they get to see first hand the pace and physicality of the NHL, and should be able to get a better read on how they stack up and what they may need to improve upon to stay in the NHL next season.

5) See if there are any takers for Rust, Rakell, and Bunting this summer. I love what Rust brings to this team. He plays in all situations and is generally not one of the guys "coasting." Which is why he'll likely pull better assets once his NMC is gone this summer.

6) Revisit with the core and see if any of them want to move on. Be straight...look, we tried, but it hasn't worked out. We don't and cannot acquire the pieces that I think can get us into the playoffs. If any of you would like to move on, I will find you a home on a contender or a team that could become a playoff team with you coming in. We'd love for you all to stay, but we want to do right by you. Except you Karlsson...eff off, GTFOH.

The goal for the rest of the season should be player development over wins and losses.

Porter Martone has passed James Hagans as the #1 overall projected pick in some projections. Michael Misa and Roger McQueen are all very good forwards. 5 of the top 7 players are all centers. So this is a good draft for the Penguins to finish somewhere in the top 5 to get one of those guys as a starting point.

Hayes and Acciari are both signed for next year so may be hard to move them this year. Acciari could definitely help a team as a 4th line center and PKer so it wouldn’t surprise me if he goes. Plus it’ll force Sullivan to play younger guys in those roles.

[BigMcK]

I imagine that licensed NHL jersey dealers keep track of per team, per player, sales figures. Crosby and Malkin would still be number's one and two for the Penguins. Letang, a distant third, EK might tie Jarry for last place.

Point being: fans are not interested in bit players for jersey sales. No one cares if Dick, Larry, Bob or Harry are on the roster. Show up to your buddies place with a xyztuyt name on the back of the jersey.

FSG should care for financial purposes if the roster generates interest from a sales per jersey profit. The suits in the suites don't care. They'll bleed Crosby and Malkin until they are gone.

Where to go from here? My Penguins Vs. their corporate mantra don't even resemble my allegiance to many years following my team.

I am not paid to solve anything. They march on.

[Pens4Life]

1. Fire Sullivan
2. Make everyone available except Crosby, Malkin, DOC, Puljujarvi, Ponomarev, Pickering, Blomquist.. from those who played NHL games this year,so far.. I dont wanna lose Brunicke, Koivunen, Broz, Murashev either fyi..

[Wyopen]

1. Fire Sullivan
2. Make everyone available except Crosby, Malkin, DOC, Puljujarvi, Ponomarev, Pickering, Blomquist.. from those who played NHL games this year,so far.. I dont wanna lose Brunicke, Koivunen, Broz, Murashev either fyi..

DOC can go, he hasn’t done jack.

[100565]

1. Fire Sullivan
2. Make everyone available except Crosby, Malkin, DOC, Puljujarvi, Ponomarev, Pickering, Blomquist.. from those who played NHL games this year,so far.. I dont wanna lose Brunicke, Koivunen, Broz, Murashev either fyi..

Why would DOC and Puljujarvi resign with Pens? Both UFAs. Both getting dorked around by Sully. I would trade them during season cause I think they lose them via free agency anyways.

[Pens4Life]

1. Fire Sullivan
2. Make everyone available except Crosby, Malkin, DOC, Puljujarvi, Ponomarev, Pickering, Blomquist.. from those who played NHL games this year,so far.. I dont wanna lose Brunicke, Koivunen, Broz, Murashev either fyi..

Why would DOC and Puljujarvi resign with Pens? Both UFAs. Both getting dorked around by Sully. I would trade them during season cause I think they lose them via free agency anyways.

Point one - Sullivan gone! We need to have some players between 25 -28yrs, who can play physical and have some size at least. Why not keep both? They shouldnt be expensive..

[Wyopen]

I agree with MM stating, play the young guys, they want to be a Penguin. All the recent additions via trade or FA just want to collect a paycheck, no real commitment to the Pens.

[Admin]

Off subject, but is the title a Last Week Tonight reference?

[FLPensFan]

Off subject, but is the title a Last Week Tonight reference?

It is not. Had to lookkup what that was.

[FLPensFan]

1. Fire Sullivan
2. Make everyone available except Crosby, Malkin, DOC, Puljujarvi, Ponomarev, Pickering, Blomquist.. from those who played NHL games this year,so far.. I dont wanna lose Brunicke, Koivunen, Broz, Murashev either fyi..

Why would DOC and Puljujarvi resign with Pens? Both UFAs. Both getting dorked around by Sully. I would trade them during season cause I think they lose them via free agency anyways.

I think DOC is gone. He'll use his 23-24 season as leverage to get a higher deal. Not sure he'll get it, but I could see him in the 1.75M - 2.75M range on his next deal. He hasn't taken the next step for me, so, I'm not opposed to him leaving and certainly don't want to overpay him.

Puljujarvi, I really don't know what to make of him. He was great in training camp, and he got off to a good start, with 4 points in his first 7 games. Then Sullivan started reducing his ice time, then made him a healthy scratch, then moved him between 3rd and 4th line constantly changing his linemates, then moved him to LW. Sullivan literally has done about all he can to put JP in positions to NOT SUCCEED. I'd like to have him back because he has size, speed, physicality, good forechecking and some skill...but he hasn't shown it enough, and I don't know if that is his fault, Sullivan's, or a combination of the 2.

[Admin]

Has Sullivan ever addressed publicly why Pul isn’t seeing the ice or getting a sweater? I’d like to know what we’re missing.

[dark_forces]

1. Fire Sullivan
2. Make everyone available except Crosby, Malkin, DOC, Puljujarvi, Ponomarev, Pickering, Blomquist.. from those who played NHL games this year,so far.. I dont wanna lose Brunicke, Koivunen, Broz, Murashev either fyi..

Why would DOC and Puljujarvi resign with Pens? Both UFAs. Both getting dorked around by Sully. I would trade them during season cause I think they lose them via free agency anyways.

I think DOC is gone. He'll use his 23-24 season as leverage to get a higher deal. Not sure he'll get it, but I could see him in the 1.75M - 2.75M range on his next deal. He hasn't taken the next step for me, so, I'm not opposed to him leaving and certainly don't want to overpay him.

Puljujarvi, I really don't know what to make of him. He was great in training camp, and he got off to a good start, with 4 points in his first 7 games. Then Sullivan started reducing his ice time, then made him a healthy scratch, then moved him between 3rd and 4th line constantly changing his linemates, then moved him to LW. Sullivan literally has done about all he can to put JP in positions to NOT SUCCEED. I'd like to have him back because he has size, speed, physicality, good forechecking and some skill...but he hasn't shown it enough, and I don't know if that is his fault, Sullivan's, or a combination of the 2.

I'm warming to the idea of dealing DOC—perhaps closer to the trade deadline. If he could fetch a similarly aged player (non-goalie) already under contract for next season, that would be ideal. I could see the Bruins or Canadiens as interested teams.
As far as Puljujarvi goes, I just don't think he has any great value. Maybe they get a 4th or 5th round pick in 2026, but it's not something that going to move the needle, unless he's packaged with another asset. If that's not the case, I'm fine holding onto him just as easily. He's young, big, can skate, doesn't cost much, and has some occasional finishing ability. Even on a rebuilding team, there's a place for players like him.

[Ericf]

Has Sullivan ever addressed publicly why Pul isn’t seeing the ice or getting a sweater? I’d like to know what we’re missing.

lol. What’s the point? “I’m trying to put together a lineup that gives us the best chance to win” is the only response anyone will get

[DelPen]

Bruins fired a coach who barely loses games. Yet we have a coach still who is about 3 years past his expiration date at best.