Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
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Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
On any given day, I see the divide here between those who have hopes for team success this season and cheer each win, while others welcome a loss at the sake of a win.
You can't have the cake and eat it too.
For me, I don't think Crosby has a dive bone in his body, and will compete to win as that makes his competitive heart beat.
Success for me is to finish very low, secure a high draft pick, and build for the future. Stop trying to piece together a team, swallow pride that the management structure is obsolete and clueless, keep Crosby healthy.
You can't have the cake and eat it too.
For me, I don't think Crosby has a dive bone in his body, and will compete to win as that makes his competitive heart beat.
Success for me is to finish very low, secure a high draft pick, and build for the future. Stop trying to piece together a team, swallow pride that the management structure is obsolete and clueless, keep Crosby healthy.
Last edited by BigMcK on Thu Dec 12, 2024 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
I think enough is enough.. we should go into rebuild and new coach,as soon as possible
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
New coach like 3 years ago. He never had these young guys in the minors like he did that crop that came up when they won in '16 and '17, so he just won't trust them in any situation unless he's forced to by injuries. O'Connor was one young guy who seemed to force his way into the lineup. I'm really rooting for him but he seems broken confidence-wise. He kills penalties, so Sully will keep him on the ice regardless.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
I don't know. I know it's not rational, but as soon as the puck drops, I want the team to win that game and get annoyed when they do stupid things to lose. But when they do lose, as soon as the game is over, I'm actually kind of glad, since it makes it more likely we get a high pick and can get some young talent in the team finally. It will never not feel good in the moment to beat the Caps, Flyers, Rangers, Isles, etc.BigMcK wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:18 amOn any given day, I see the divide here between those who have hopes for team success this season and cheer each win, while others welcome a loss at the sake of a win.
You can't have the cake and eat it too.
For me, I don't think Crosby has a dive bone in his body, and will compete to win as that makes his competitive heart beat.
Success for me is to finish very low, secure a high draft pick, and build for the future. Stop trying to piece together a team, swallow pride that the management structure is obsolete and clueless, keep Crosby healthy.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
Same. I still want them to fill up the net with goals and win when I'm watching but if they lose it's OK because I want that high draft pick.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
Would I love to see this team win another Cup for Sid and the core? Absolutely. Do I think that is realistic at this point or in the next 2-3 years? Nothing Hextall or Dubas have done convinces me that it is remotely possible. They missed their window to add multiple young, mid-tier talent 2-3 years ago. That type of window isn't coming around again soon enough for this team to ever be a contender again with this core.
Right now, unfortunately, this team is stuck in middle mediocrity. Just good enough to be in the playoff conversation, but likely miss, and secure an inconsequential draft pick.
This team would be better off moving anything it can now, and fading back down to at least a top 8 pick, preferably top 5. This is supposed to be a deep draft in a league where out of 220+ picks, you are lucky if 5 guys jump to the NHL in year 1. Again, just like they missed the opportunity to load up on younger UFAs or available trade targets, they are risking getting an average pick in deep draft instead of a high quality pick.
Those are the type of decisions that make me believe we are in for a LONG period of pain with this franchise.
Right now, unfortunately, this team is stuck in middle mediocrity. Just good enough to be in the playoff conversation, but likely miss, and secure an inconsequential draft pick.
This team would be better off moving anything it can now, and fading back down to at least a top 8 pick, preferably top 5. This is supposed to be a deep draft in a league where out of 220+ picks, you are lucky if 5 guys jump to the NHL in year 1. Again, just like they missed the opportunity to load up on younger UFAs or available trade targets, they are risking getting an average pick in deep draft instead of a high quality pick.
Those are the type of decisions that make me believe we are in for a LONG period of pain with this franchise.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
I don't think we're going to draft Connor MacDavid in 2015, even if we do stink it up, I'm just not sure how the temporal mechanics would even work. 
I see this on two levels.
On a strategic level, where this team's trending and headed. I think you have to accept that we need to do some kind of rebuild. Not one of those trade everybody ones, but a phasing out of players that won't help now or in two years time. Be that because they're expensive and can be money-balled, or that you can bring up better players that need to grow a little to get there. For the Guentzel (and Ty Smith) trade, which brought Bunting, I never saw Bunting as the asset. He's a guy for your here and now, an NHL player that can do things for the team. The assets were Ponomarev, Koivunen and Lucius.. later added on Brunicke (2nd). Dubas has since stockpiled a smattering of draft picks, taking on Hayes and Glass, sending out Eller. He used a 4th rounder to pick up Tomasino.
That's all something I can get behind.
Then there's the team level. This team has to play hockey games, no matter what Dubas does. Line up have to be (poorly) put together on the ice by Sullivan. The goal each night is to win, score one more. Why? Not because you like winning once in a while, but because the goal for all 32 teams is winning the Stanley Cup. It's just not realistic to expect it from most teams, least of all the Penguins. Whatever happens up top, with your roster, you still go out and try to win. Compete. Play hard and whatnot. You've got Crosby in town. And the difference between #1 and #32 in the league is big, but there is still a remarkable level of parity where any team can still on a good day beat any other on a bad day.
My take is you don't try to block winning games, if playoffs happen, declare it a miracle and get knocked out in round 1. They won't and you shouldn't be selling off the future for it. You should be investing into the future. And that means painful choices to buy this franchise some hope.

I see this on two levels.
On a strategic level, where this team's trending and headed. I think you have to accept that we need to do some kind of rebuild. Not one of those trade everybody ones, but a phasing out of players that won't help now or in two years time. Be that because they're expensive and can be money-balled, or that you can bring up better players that need to grow a little to get there. For the Guentzel (and Ty Smith) trade, which brought Bunting, I never saw Bunting as the asset. He's a guy for your here and now, an NHL player that can do things for the team. The assets were Ponomarev, Koivunen and Lucius.. later added on Brunicke (2nd). Dubas has since stockpiled a smattering of draft picks, taking on Hayes and Glass, sending out Eller. He used a 4th rounder to pick up Tomasino.
That's all something I can get behind.
Then there's the team level. This team has to play hockey games, no matter what Dubas does. Line up have to be (poorly) put together on the ice by Sullivan. The goal each night is to win, score one more. Why? Not because you like winning once in a while, but because the goal for all 32 teams is winning the Stanley Cup. It's just not realistic to expect it from most teams, least of all the Penguins. Whatever happens up top, with your roster, you still go out and try to win. Compete. Play hard and whatnot. You've got Crosby in town. And the difference between #1 and #32 in the league is big, but there is still a remarkable level of parity where any team can still on a good day beat any other on a bad day.
My take is you don't try to block winning games, if playoffs happen, declare it a miracle and get knocked out in round 1. They won't and you shouldn't be selling off the future for it. You should be investing into the future. And that means painful choices to buy this franchise some hope.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
I want the team to win but when they lose, I'm not as upset as I would be in the past. I've come to terms that they are going to lose and kind of expect a 3rd period meltdown even when they are winning. For the better of the team, I think a top 5 pick this year and maybe next year would start a rebuild AND possibly give the trio one last cup try.largegarlic wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 9:43 amI don't know. I know it's not rational, but as soon as the puck drops, I want the team to win that game and get annoyed when they do stupid things to lose. But when they do lose, as soon as the game is over, I'm actually kind of glad, since it makes it more likely we get a high pick and can get some young talent in the team finally. It will never not feel good in the moment to beat the Caps, Flyers, Rangers, Isles, etc.BigMcK wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:18 amOn any given day, I see the divide here between those who have hopes for team success this season and cheer each win, while others welcome a loss at the sake of a win.
You can't have the cake and eat it too.
For me, I don't think Crosby has a dive bone in his body, and will compete to win as that makes his competitive heart beat.
Success for me is to finish very low, secure a high draft pick, and build for the future. Stop trying to piece together a team, swallow pride that the management structure is obsolete and clueless, keep Crosby healthy.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
It's not absolutely impossible but the lack of preparation for a retool takes a new window from 5 years to 1, maybe two. If they get 2 straight top 5 picks and draft with the idea of right to the NHL, they might be able to get 3-4 players. Get a blue chip scorer in round 1 and bottom pairing defensemen who could grow in round 2. Something like that.FLPensFan wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 11:04 amWould I love to see this team win another Cup for Sid and the core? Absolutely. Do I think that is realistic at this point or in the next 2-3 years? Nothing Hextall or Dubas have done convinces me that it is remotely possible. They missed their window to add multiple young, mid-tier talent 2-3 years ago. That type of window isn't coming around again soon enough for this team to ever be a contender again with this core.
Right now, unfortunately, this team is stuck in middle mediocrity. Just good enough to be in the playoff conversation, but likely miss, and secure an inconsequential draft pick.
This team would be better off moving anything it can now, and fading back down to at least a top 8 pick, preferably top 5. This is supposed to be a deep draft in a league where out of 220+ picks, you are lucky if 5 guys jump to the NHL in year 1. Again, just like they missed the opportunity to load up on younger UFAs or available trade targets, they are risking getting an average pick in deep draft instead of a high quality pick.
Those are the type of decisions that make me believe we are in for a LONG period of pain with this franchise.
Add in trading anyone over 25 except the trio and they might be able to compete in a few years. That won't give them staying power but might be able to get one more lap around the track for the old guys.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
Securing a high level/lottery draft pick and drafting a franchise center, someone for Sid to mentor and pass the torch to, so to speak. (if Sid wants that role). I realize he won't be passing it to another Sid or Geno, but a future legit first line and captain, someone to build around - would be amazing.
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
Getting Risling and Jeff Carter’s missing front teeth for Christmas. That’s about all we can hope for, given the circumstances.
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Re: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
When I see this team compete like they have over the past few games, it makes me think we could be somewhat competitive if they could just make a few upgrades. 2 of Grzelcyk/Graves/Karlsson out and 2 of Hayes/Acciari/Nieto out. We might need to add a middle paring dman, but fill in the rest those spots with younger guys from WBS.
The problem is, they'd still be lucky to make the playoffs and have no chance of winning a cup. So...., what's the point. I say bite the bullet and go for the rebuild.
A successful season to me means that Sully is gone, at least 4 of those 6 players above are gone, and we're interjecting youth into the lineup. I would let a young, inexperienced team trying to learn a new system/coach dictate how this season ends. If they gel right away and things click a little, we'll probably end up with lower pick (which will suck), but maybe the team will be further along w/ the rebuild and they can hit the ground running next season. Or, if they struggle mightily, so be it. Figure out who is part of the solution and get rid of as much of the dead weight as possible. In that scenario, a higher pick will be the upside.
Either way, gotta try something different and maybe even a little drastic.
The problem is, they'd still be lucky to make the playoffs and have no chance of winning a cup. So...., what's the point. I say bite the bullet and go for the rebuild.
A successful season to me means that Sully is gone, at least 4 of those 6 players above are gone, and we're interjecting youth into the lineup. I would let a young, inexperienced team trying to learn a new system/coach dictate how this season ends. If they gel right away and things click a little, we'll probably end up with lower pick (which will suck), but maybe the team will be further along w/ the rebuild and they can hit the ground running next season. Or, if they struggle mightily, so be it. Figure out who is part of the solution and get rid of as much of the dead weight as possible. In that scenario, a higher pick will be the upside.
Either way, gotta try something different and maybe even a little drastic.
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
I was going to say, there’s no successful season if Sullivan is still here. Step number 1 for a successful season is firing him
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
The reality is you can never put a team out to lose, results will come and go. However, I have seen a number of people write that we need to rid our club of these journeyman on our 3rd and 4th lines and play our younger players from WBS. I totally agree with this may we win or lose with those players we don't really know, but I would much rather invest in our future versus playing these players that are not really vested club players and just hoping to stay in the league and continue their career with either the penguins or any other team next year.
Put in our youth, blood them now. Obviously players like Poulin will fail, but let his stay here for three months, let's just see. Bring in others, give them a jump on 2025-26. The experience and opportunity will only help propel our team to success quicker in the future. Everyone is up for a trade, even Crosby and Malkin if they want to go. These two should seriously sit with management and determine if they want to win again. They can but not when they are collecting $7 million plus a year. They need to be on 3 million a year contracts and except that we need to find a gem for more money if available.
However trade away, capture young potential players, bring up AHL, WHL and overseas. Really open every door.
When you think back about our success on the last two cup runs, the team did very well during the season bringing up young players from WBS fighting to stick with the big boys versus going back to WBS. This is a spot where heart, determination and skill will succeed.
I was in two minds during our 4 game winning streak, and that mood can change, but keep pulling the trigger on trades and if we do well with young guys and miss out on a top three pick I can live with that.
Put in our youth, blood them now. Obviously players like Poulin will fail, but let his stay here for three months, let's just see. Bring in others, give them a jump on 2025-26. The experience and opportunity will only help propel our team to success quicker in the future. Everyone is up for a trade, even Crosby and Malkin if they want to go. These two should seriously sit with management and determine if they want to win again. They can but not when they are collecting $7 million plus a year. They need to be on 3 million a year contracts and except that we need to find a gem for more money if available.
However trade away, capture young potential players, bring up AHL, WHL and overseas. Really open every door.
When you think back about our success on the last two cup runs, the team did very well during the season bringing up young players from WBS fighting to stick with the big boys versus going back to WBS. This is a spot where heart, determination and skill will succeed.
I was in two minds during our 4 game winning streak, and that mood can change, but keep pulling the trigger on trades and if we do well with young guys and miss out on a top three pick I can live with that.
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
The Pens need to get younger not older if there is a chance for another Cup run. That being said, it's not gonna happen as long as Sully won't give the young guys a chance. I don't dislike Sully but, I agree, time for him to go and bring in someone with a fresh mindset.Ericf wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 2:10 pmI was going to say, there’s no successful season if Sullivan is still here. Step number 1 for a successful season is firing him
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
Getting younger is fine, but Sullivan is an obstacle to rebuilding. If you have him on board, you can get all the young talent you want, they'll never get anywhere.stonewizard51 wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 2:55 pmThe Pens need to get younger not older if there is a chance for another Cup run. That being said, it's not gonna happen as long as Sully won't give the young guys a chance. I don't dislike Sully but, I agree, time for him to go and bring in someone with a fresh mindset.Ericf wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 2:10 pmI was going to say, there’s no successful season if Sullivan is still here. Step number 1 for a successful season is firing him
Just has to be gone at the end of the season or he'll *@#$ over all of Dubas' work.
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
The problem they will run into is that the young guys aren't as good as they were during the cup runs. But yes, bring them up, and trade as many guys on this team as possible. Even throw in younger guys if they happen to play well when they come up. Getting younger and stockpiling futures is the only way this is a successful season.
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
Sullivan being fired. That's the only metric of success.
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
i think its time for a full on rebuild. we had our runs and its time to restock the cupboards. its gooing to be alot of lean years until we can get some youth in here that can mature into a solid core.
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Re: Poll: A Successful 24-25 Season, to me, is???
Yes, since we seem hellbent on keeping the geezers together to ride off into the sunset, it will be a long long road.no name wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 7:50 ami think its time for a full on rebuild. we had our runs and its time to restock the cupboards. its gooing to be alot of lean years until we can get some youth in here that can mature into a solid core.