A Reality Check for Penguins Fans

[EndO FanEra]

My thoughts.

- You never, ever, ever trade Crosby. Unless he brings it up and wants it. Then you do your best to facilitate that, until such a point, the conversation (for th org) should be instantly over and people should walk away in disgust immediately.

- This team is not going to the playoffs. We still have some good players, but it isn't enough anymore. Maybe if you had a support cast of really exceptional cheap role players, you could make it work. We don't have that. There's this fever dream that the team could still make it.. and as we say here.. "you'll never know how a cow might be able to catch a hare". Not a realistic goal, even when other teams are crapping the bed harder than you at some point.

- This team is not a bottom feeder. We're too good for that. A team with Crosby, Rust, Rakell as first line will win too many games. Well fine, go break Gretzky's record. That will be worth the draft position for this year for me. The difference is #6 or #14, give or take. I'm fine with that if it means Crosby has >1PPG for yet another year. Draft difference... David Jiříček or Rutger McGroarty. *shrug*

- I generally think and hope the plan is, at the deadline to trade everything old and/or expiring that has value. I expect Dubas to make 2-3 moves to maneuver some picks or whatever. If he can take out the trash all the better.

- Sullivan needs to go. He can not be part of any rebuild. He's actively working against making this team younger. I'm so done with him trotting out Nieto and Acciari again and again. Often our worst penalty killers on the PK.

- Jarry needs to never play for Pittsburgh again unless we have 5 injured goalies. And even then you should be able to find an EBUG to play in his stead. Again and again and again and again.. setting records for giving up goals on the first five shots -- for giving up goals on the very first shot -- for giving up a goal right after Pens scored one. He's like some kind of anti-clutch goalie, consistently comes up with team back breaking plays and soft goals against. He turns 30 in April, we have seen enough of this polished turd. Spraying it with deodorant will not make the smell go away. His future should be healthy scratch, and letting Blomqvist or Larsson play alongside Ned. Then waivers and hope some GM is dumb enough to claim him (they won't). Jarry's cap relief would be higher than Blomqvist's salary for the first two years.

- Dubas needs to make his mind up about Sullivan. By that I mean, he needs to reverse course and eject him. Overrule him and send some of his pets to WBS (see above). Invest in younger guys. Make room on the roster for whoever in WBS is ready. Or better yet, have a rotating door of 2 players coming in and out of the group. Training camp competition was nice.. how about some in season competition? I'd be willing to look at any forward from WBS over Nieto at this stage. Gruden, Imama, hell even Bemström. Time for the next act in the grand illusion, Kyle, you can spin this in a way that people will buy into it.

Well said!

I think it's safe to say that there is no way the Pens are winning a cup this year. Same with next year, unless there some major overhaul and they catch lighting in a bottle. What about that last year of Sid's contract though? I think that would be my target if I was in KD's shoes. A lot of what you said in your post needs to happen if that were to be at all possible.

1. Sully needs to go. Period. The sooner the better IMO, but he has to be gone before the offseason starts.
2. Gotta trim some fat. Nieto, Acciari, etc. I also think we need to get rid of at least two of these 4 bad contracts: Karlsson, Graves, Jarry, or Hayes. We'll need the cap space, and none of them are part of the future (unless Graves can turn a corner). This may be the toughest of the 3 tasks.
3. I think we would need a new young top line player to build for the future with (a Marner, E. Petterson, etc.) and help take some of he heat off of Sid & Geno. They don't become available often, so KD needs to be ready to pounce. Would Vancouver consider a Petterson, Bunting/Rakell, pick/prospect package for EP? Probably not, but I'd be looking into it. Marner if he becomes available. Not sure who else might be available in the offseason. This will take some luck, and maybe some of that draft capital we've been building up.

Even with all of that, it's still a daunting task. It'll likely be another rough/underwhelming season next year, but if we have cap space, and some of our youth/prospects develop well, and we have a new coach/system to fit our existing roster, they may be able to be competitive sooner rather than later. Add in a young-ish top line forward into the mix, move Geno to wing or even 3rd line center (if he'd be willing to), and fill out the bottom 6 with some young legs fighting for a spot.

There's a lot of things that would need to go right, but I see Sid's 3rd year as the first possible chance of the Pens making some waves. It'll likely be a year or two later, but maybe Sid will extend on a year-to-year basis if we are close enough.

I think that is about the best we can hope for. But KD needs to get busy very soon...

[penscup]

My thoughts.


- This team is not going to the playoffs. We still have some good players, but it isn't enough anymore. Maybe if you had a support cast of really exceptional cheap role players, you could make it work. We don't have that. There's this fever dream that the team could still make it.. and as we say here.. "you'll never know how a cow might be able to catch a hare". Not a realistic goal, even when other teams are crapping the bed harder than you at some point.

This remains to be seen.
Still half the season to go, that’s a lot of hockey left to play.

- Jarry needs to never play for Pittsburgh again unless we have 5 injured goalies. And even then you should be able to find an EBUG to play in his stead. Again and again and again and again.. setting records for giving up goals on the first five shots -- for giving up goals on the very first shot -- for giving up a goal right after Pens scored one. He's like some kind of anti-clutch goalie, consistently comes up with team back breaking plays and soft goals against. He turns 30 in April, we have seen enough of this polished turd. Spraying it with deodorant will not make the smell go away. His future should be healthy scratch, and letting Blomqvist or Larsson play alongside Ned. Then waivers and hope some GM is dumb enough to claim him (they won't). Jarry's cap relief would be higher than Blomqvist's salary for the first two years.

Your Jarry hate is insanely overboard.

Even great goalies struggle sometimes. Look at Shesterkin this year or Hellebuyck who can’t get out of the first round of the playoffs, or even Swayman who has a losing record. Jarry led the league in shutouts last year. He’s had solid regular season numbers his first 5 years in the league up until last season. He’s gone 7-3-3 in his last 13 games after faltering early on, but all you can focus is on how he doesn’t stop every single shot he faces. It’s beyond ridiculous. Let’s see how he performs the rest of the year before totally trashing him like you can’t wait to do.

[Dynasty1970]

This team will not contend again for a decade. And that is if they deal with the problems they have right now immediately. They need to unload the big three and anyone else they can before even their value drops. They need to get rid of Sully, like yesterday! And now it appears that GMKD was the wrong hire as well. Complete overhaul is needed in order to get back to contention in a decade or so. I’m just being realistic. There isn’t anyway Crosby gets past the second round ever again in a Penguins uniform. With that being the case, start the rebuild now!

[Antonio]

It's almost as if Jarry has been here long enough with a large enough body of work for some people to cast judgments on him based on a significant and consistent pool of data. Certainly if one is relying on Jarry to improve his performance based on his second half of the season... well...

[penscup]

Yeah like his career overall 144-91-29 record.

That would certainly give zero consideration that he might be a decent NHL caliber goalie.

[Bo_Pens]

Fellow Penguins fans, it’s time to confront a hard truth: expecting this team to rebuild while clinging to the remnants of its once-glorious core is unrealistic. The NHL is an unforgiving league, and no team can sustain success forever without making difficult decisions. For years, the Penguins have tried to keep one foot in the present and one in the future. It’s now clear that strategy is failing—and the window to compete for another Cup has firmly closed.

The Illusion of a Contending Core

Let’s be honest: Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Kris Letang are legends. They’ve cemented their legacies as three of the greatest Penguins of all time. But hockey is a young man’s game. At this stage in their careers, they can no longer single-handedly drag this team to playoff glory. The supporting cast is thin, the prospect pool is shallow, and the league is faster and deeper than ever. Clinging to the stars who brought us so much joy is a sentimental choice, not a strategic one.

The Reality of the “Rebuild While Competing” Fantasy

Fans clamoring for a rebuild while keeping the core are asking for the impossible. Rebuilding requires capital—draft picks, prospects, and patience. The Penguins have none of those in surplus. Management has repeatedly traded futures to “go for it” during the Crosby-Malkin-Letang era, leaving the team ill-equipped for a true rebuild. You can’t stock the cupboards while still trying to win a Cup. It’s a contradiction that’s now catching up with the organization.

Mike Sullivan: A Coach Without Answers

Mike Sullivan’s contributions to the 2016 and 2017 Cups were undeniable, but that success feels like ancient history now. In recent seasons, Sullivan has failed to adapt. His insistence on a speed-based system doesn’t align with the team’s declining roster capabilities. Special teams have been inconsistent, defensive play remains a glaring issue, and key players often look uninspired when it matters most. Last season’s failure to even make the playoffs should have been the wake-up call, but nothing has changed. Sullivan has had the opportunity to adjust, and he simply hasn’t.

The Window is Shut

Let’s stop pretending this team is a piece or two away from contending. The Eastern Conference is loaded with younger, deeper, and hungrier teams. The Penguins’ best chance at success came and went years ago, and holding on now only delays the inevitable rebuild that must come. By continuing to straddle the line, the Penguins risk becoming the next version of the Detroit Red Wings post-2015—a proud franchise mired in mediocrity.

Conclusion

It’s not easy to accept the end of an era, but the sooner Penguins fans and management do, the better the long-term outlook will be. Continuing to chase an unreachable dream only ensures a longer road back to relevance. Rebuilding is painful, but it’s necessary. Let’s honor the core’s legacy, but let’s not let sentimentality dictate the future. The time for tough decisions is now.

I agree with most of this, but not about the trio. The problem is that we think they're still 1st/2nd line and 1st pairing talent. If you put Sid/Malkin on the 3rd line with, lets just say DOC for the discussion. Have Letang as 3rd pairing with, Belliveau (again for this discussion).

Pretty much load the rest of the roster with anyone under 25 and build through that. The rebuild time in modern sports should be less because of free agency and quicker time from draft to NHL.

While they might not be a contender during the trios time left, we might see that one last hurrah before they go. Best case scenario, we see a win one for Ray Bourque scenario, worse case we catupult the rebuild to have a quicker turnaround after they retire. The issue as I see it is the team is still built around them. Build it around Pickering and McGroarty and hopefully a top 5 pick in next years draft and lessen the ice time and responsibility of Sid/Geno/Kris.

Perfect, next post mentions disagreement by saying Crosby, Malkin on third line and Letang 3rd d pairing.. unrealistic on those contracts. Malkin interest to have a playoff run before he retires. Help him go, it’s a win win. Maybe he comes back in 2 years for peanuts, same with Letang. Let them have a run elsewhere. They served us well but we need to move forward not backwards.

[Pens4Life]

its been time for a small reset 3 years, Sullivan should be canned.. Maybe Steelers lose to Baltimore and Tomlin is finally gone, then Pens follow Steelers
and also Sully is finally freaking sacked because he deserved it years ago.

It's been eight years since their last playoff win and 14 years since a Super Bowl berth. Tomlin's lone Super Bowl win was nearly 16 years ago.
Sullivan has pretty **** resume with Pens last 7 years as well... we havent seen 2nd round of playoffs since 2017-2018, 4x first round exits after
that and two seasons without playoffs, with this being probably the 3rd in a row. Yet here we are LOL ..

But also we had some horrible GM decisions with roster, mind boggling crap to be honest.. but roster has changed 85% in few years, just coach remains the same, 100 times repeated story already!?

[Cow_Master66]

Fellow Penguins fans, it’s time to confront a hard truth: expecting this team to rebuild while clinging to the remnants of its once-glorious core is unrealistic. The NHL is an unforgiving league, and no team can sustain success forever without making difficult decisions. For years, the Penguins have tried to keep one foot in the present and one in the future. It’s now clear that strategy is failing—and the window to compete for another Cup has firmly closed.

The Illusion of a Contending Core

Let’s be honest: Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Kris Letang are legends. They’ve cemented their legacies as three of the greatest Penguins of all time. But hockey is a young man’s game. At this stage in their careers, they can no longer single-handedly drag this team to playoff glory. The supporting cast is thin, the prospect pool is shallow, and the league is faster and deeper than ever. Clinging to the stars who brought us so much joy is a sentimental choice, not a strategic one.

The Reality of the “Rebuild While Competing” Fantasy

Fans clamoring for a rebuild while keeping the core are asking for the impossible. Rebuilding requires capital—draft picks, prospects, and patience. The Penguins have none of those in surplus. Management has repeatedly traded futures to “go for it” during the Crosby-Malkin-Letang era, leaving the team ill-equipped for a true rebuild. You can’t stock the cupboards while still trying to win a Cup. It’s a contradiction that’s now catching up with the organization.

Mike Sullivan: A Coach Without Answers

Mike Sullivan’s contributions to the 2016 and 2017 Cups were undeniable, but that success feels like ancient history now. In recent seasons, Sullivan has failed to adapt. His insistence on a speed-based system doesn’t align with the team’s declining roster capabilities. Special teams have been inconsistent, defensive play remains a glaring issue, and key players often look uninspired when it matters most. Last season’s failure to even make the playoffs should have been the wake-up call, but nothing has changed. Sullivan has had the opportunity to adjust, and he simply hasn’t.

The Window is Shut

Let’s stop pretending this team is a piece or two away from contending. The Eastern Conference is loaded with younger, deeper, and hungrier teams. The Penguins’ best chance at success came and went years ago, and holding on now only delays the inevitable rebuild that must come. By continuing to straddle the line, the Penguins risk becoming the next version of the Detroit Red Wings post-2015—a proud franchise mired in mediocrity.

Conclusion

It’s not easy to accept the end of an era, but the sooner Penguins fans and management do, the better the long-term outlook will be. Continuing to chase an unreachable dream only ensures a longer road back to relevance. Rebuilding is painful, but it’s necessary. Let’s honor the core’s legacy, but let’s not let sentimentality dictate the future. The time for tough decisions is now.

I agree with most of this, but not about the trio. The problem is that we think they're still 1st/2nd line and 1st pairing talent. If you put Sid/Malkin on the 3rd line with, lets just say DOC for the discussion. Have Letang as 3rd pairing with, Belliveau (again for this discussion).

Pretty much load the rest of the roster with anyone under 25 and build through that. The rebuild time in modern sports should be less because of free agency and quicker time from draft to NHL.

While they might not be a contender during the trios time left, we might see that one last hurrah before they go. Best case scenario, we see a win one for Ray Bourque scenario, worse case we catupult the rebuild to have a quicker turnaround after they retire. The issue as I see it is the team is still built around them. Build it around Pickering and McGroarty and hopefully a top 5 pick in next years draft and lessen the ice time and responsibility of Sid/Geno/Kris.

Perfect, next post mentions disagreement by saying Crosby, Malkin on third line and Letang 3rd d pairing.. unrealistic on those contracts. Malkin interest to have a playoff run before he retires. Help him go, it’s a win win. Maybe he comes back in 2 years for peanuts, same with Letang. Let them have a run elsewhere. They served us well but we need to move forward not backwards.

- If they resign Geno in 2 years, I'll actively root against them (I'm a Geno fan).

- Wanting to rebuild without trading the most valuable asset is wild to me. Everyone loves Crosby, but putting him above the team, essentially setting them back 5+ years, is so beyond silly to me. Maybe go with, "if you love something, set it free. If it returns, it's yours, if it doesn't, it never was".

- As for trading the 15th + 25th, I wouldn't personally. Given where this team is, and more importantly, where they are going, they need quantity. They are so far from being competitive, that whoever they take in this upcoming draft might not be here once the "true rebuild" is nearing an end. I'd actually rather see them trade both 15h/25 for futures. #tankformckenna

- Sell high(or low) on everyone, but without a doubt, sell anyone you can. Just wanting to move the old guys is short-sighted beyond belief. First off, they aren't going to bring anything in, so who really cares? If you can move a Rackel, or frankly anyone else that can be found in the organization, just do it.

[KG]

Trading Crosby isn't a viable option for two reasons to me. 1. He wants to stay here. Pretty much case closed. 2. Even if he wanted to go somewhere, he will control where he goes. Which will 99% be Colorado. We don't have much negotiating power when it comes to making trade demands when the player will only go to 1 team. Not that he's the same player, but Chicago basically got a 2nd and 4th round picks for Kane because he wanted to go to NYR.

I am all for trading everyone realistic and selling high on players like Rakell. Sid isn't going anywhere, because he doesn't want to go anywhere.

[Cow_Master66]

Trading Crosby isn't a viable option for two reasons to me. 1. He wants to stay here. Pretty much case closed. 2. Even if he wanted to go somewhere, he will control where he goes. Which will 99% be Colorado. We don't have much negotiating power when it comes to making trade demands when the player will only go to 1 team. Not that he's the same player, but Chicago basically got a 2nd and 4th round picks for Kane because he wanted to go to NYR.

I am all for trading everyone realistic and selling high on players like Rakell. Sid isn't going anywhere, because he doesn't want to go anywhere.

Oh, I completely agree that he's not going anywhere. None of the 3 elders are, which will suck for us fans once the slow decent into irrelevance comes to a head.

[Puck-Lurker]

My thoughts.


- This team is not going to the playoffs. We still have some good players, but it isn't enough anymore. Maybe if you had a support cast of really exceptional cheap role players, you could make it work. We don't have that. There's this fever dream that the team could still make it.. and as we say here.. "you'll never know how a cow might be able to catch a hare". Not a realistic goal, even when other teams are crapping the bed harder than you at some point.

This remains to be seen.
Still half the season to go, that’s a lot of hockey left to play.

- Jarry needs to never play for Pittsburgh again unless we have 5 injured goalies. And even then you should be able to find an EBUG to play in his stead. Again and again and again and again.. setting records for giving up goals on the first five shots -- for giving up goals on the very first shot -- for giving up a goal right after Pens scored one. He's like some kind of anti-clutch goalie, consistently comes up with team back breaking plays and soft goals against. He turns 30 in April, we have seen enough of this polished turd. Spraying it with deodorant will not make the smell go away. His future should be healthy scratch, and letting Blomqvist or Larsson play alongside Ned. Then waivers and hope some GM is dumb enough to claim him (they won't). Jarry's cap relief would be higher than Blomqvist's salary for the first two years.

Your Jarry hate is insanely overboard.

Even great goalies struggle sometimes. Look at Shesterkin this year or Hellebuyck who can’t get out of the first round of the playoffs, or even Swayman who has a losing record. Jarry led the league in shutouts last year. He’s had solid regular season numbers his first 5 years in the league up until last season. He’s gone 7-3-3 in his last 13 games after faltering early on, but all you can focus is on how he doesn’t stop every single shot he faces. It’s beyond ridiculous. Let’s see how he performs the rest of the year before totally trashing him like you can’t wait to do.

"This remains to be seen.
Still half the season to go, that’s a lot of hockey left to play."

Thanks but I did say that. I also said it would be unreasonable to expect.

Thank you for questioning my mental capacity. I trust you are indeed quite the expert on the subject.

I find it extremely difficult to engage with such a cartoonish straw man of the presented argument to date. Might just be my insanity! My raging boiling hate, too, mind you!

Let's wait until Jarry is 33 before we judge him, he's only a prospect and we must be gentle on his tender teenage soul until he comes of age. The season has only just started as well! And we've never seen any of these trends before with him ever. This is also a thing that happens all the time to NHL starters, trust me.

If by your metrics and eye test, Jarry is an okay (not even going to go by really good or just good) goalie, I am not sure you're watching the games. By extension I would question your understanding of goaltenders in general.

A year or two ago, I would have (and have) defended Jarry. Give him a little more time, the ceiling is there even if the floor is low. Well, that time has passed, the ceiling lowered and the floor fell out.

But if sanity is to believe Jarry is a great goalie who is struggling momentarily behind a bad defense. I'm not sure I want that kind of sanity. Yes that defense is bad. No that is not a blanket excuse anyone can hide behind.

I'm... Not sure I ever expected any goalie in the history of ever to stop EVERY shot. That's beyond ridiculous and gets you frisked by troll border guards because you're about to enter troll territory.

It would be NICE to see Jarry become an amazing goalie suddenly. We have better odds at #1 overall pick. But what do I know, I must be some super angry Jarry hater who wants nothing but for the franchise goaltender to perform as miserable as can be! Yes that must be it. So much hate!

[Maestro]

This team is similar to badly burnt toast. No matter how much butter you spread on it still tastes really bad.

Time for a new loaf.

[BigMcK]

This team is similar to badly burnt toast. No matter how much butter you spread on it still tastes really bad.

Time for a new loaf.

Whoever is responsible for burning the toast should be removed from the kitchen and replaced with a more competent person.

Bread ain't cheap.

[penscup]

If by your metrics and eye test, Jarry is an okay (not even going to go by really good or just good) goalie, I am not sure you're watching the games. By extension I would question your understanding of goaltenders in general.


But if sanity is to believe Jarry is a great goalie who is struggling momentarily behind a bad defense. I'm not sure I want that kind of sanity. Yes that defense is bad. No that is not a blanket excuse anyone can hide behind.

It would be NICE to see Jarry become an amazing goalie suddenly. We have better odds at #1 overall pick. But what do I know, I must be some super angry Jarry hater who wants nothing but for the franchise goaltender to perform as miserable as can be! Yes that must be it. So much hate!

Never said he was amazing or great goalie, in fact I hate that I have to even defend the guy because I don’t even like him. But the outrageous comments from you and other Jarry haters that continue to ignore the facts force me to.

7-3-3 in his last 13 games. How does that translate into Jarry gives this team zero chance to win or the floor has fallen out?? It shouldn’t be that hard to understand why he was signed to a 5 year deal and why he is still getting starts over the other options right now. Just look at his stats.

[100565]

This team is similar to badly burnt toast. No matter how much butter you spread on it still tastes really bad.

Time for a new loaf.

Whoever is responsible for burning the toast should be removed from the kitchen and replaced with a more competent person.

Bread ain't cheap.

FSG is doing just fine with their investment.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/pittsburgh-penguins/

2021 $878mil.
2024 $1.75 Billion

Almost $1billion in gains in 3years!

Crazy but people must like burnt toast. With or without butter.

[BigMcK]

This team is similar to badly burnt toast. No matter how much butter you spread on it still tastes really bad.

Time for a new loaf.

Whoever is responsible for burning the toast should be removed from the kitchen and replaced with a more competent person.

Bread ain't cheap.

FSG is doing just fine with their investment.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/pittsburgh-penguins/

2021 $878mil.
2024 $1.75 Billion

Almost $1billion in gains in 3years!

Crazy but people must like burnt toast. With or without butter.

Being that, they can afford the expensive imported butter from Ireland without blinking...

[Antonio]

If by your metrics and eye test, Jarry is an okay (not even going to go by really good or just good) goalie, I am not sure you're watching the games. By extension I would question your understanding of goaltenders in general.


But if sanity is to believe Jarry is a great goalie who is struggling momentarily behind a bad defense. I'm not sure I want that kind of sanity. Yes that defense is bad. No that is not a blanket excuse anyone can hide behind.

It would be NICE to see Jarry become an amazing goalie suddenly. We have better odds at #1 overall pick. But what do I know, I must be some super angry Jarry hater who wants nothing but for the franchise goaltender to perform as miserable as can be! Yes that must be it. So much hate!

Never said he was amazing or great goalie, in fact I hate that I have to even defend the guy because I don’t even like him. But the outrageous comments from you and other Jarry haters that continue to ignore the facts force me to.

7-3-3 in his last 13 games. How does that translate into Jarry gives this team zero chance to win or the floor has fallen out?? It shouldn’t be that hard to understand why he was signed to a 5 year deal and why he is still getting starts over the other options right now. Just look at his stats.

Yup 7-3-3 in his last 13. It is like watching a broadcast..."he leads the league in secondary assists in the 3rd period of games on Tuesdays"...not a thing. If we don't cherry pick, he is 7-5-4 in his last 16. Lets just add the immediate 3 games prior to the "13" where he was 0-2-1. Or...more importantly lets just look at the fact that he is a pedestrian 8-6-4 this year, and a pitiful .889 and 3.43GA. And lets not talk about the absurd amount of first shot first goals or even first 5 shots first goals. That, while hard to quantify on a stat sheet, really does reduce the team's chance to win when they are down within 60 seconds every other game. Has not had a GAA under 2.9 in over 3 years. Been in the league almost 10 years and had to get sent down to get his **** together? Enough already. None of the goaltenders have been stellar, but for a guy who is supposedly your top tier 5+M starter, being about the same as a journeyman backup and a rookie is hardly a high benchmark to meet.

[Antonio]

This team is similar to badly burnt toast. No matter how much butter you spread on it still tastes really bad.

Time for a new loaf.

Whoever is responsible for burning the toast should be removed from the kitchen and replaced with a more competent person.

Bread ain't cheap.

FSG is doing just fine with their investment.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/pittsburgh-penguins/

2021 $878mil.
2024 $1.75 Billion

Almost $1billion in gains in 3years!

Crazy but people must like burnt toast. With or without butter.

Yeah but this is hardly representative of what they have done with the team I would say.
"Hockey saw its average franchise value appreciate 44% in 2024, to $1.9 billion, far outpacing the increases in pro football (11%), basketball (15%) and baseball (4%) this year, according to Forbes estimates. All 32 NHL franchises climbed at least 21%, and their five-year surge of 187% again tops the other three major North American leagues’ growth, as well as global soccer’s."

According to article, the team's estimated value has certainly increased however last year it was about league average...and it appears more that a rising tide lifts all boats. Obviously they don't care as long as the value has gone up and it has certainly probably been a good investment for them, but the stated operating income is not incredible or anything and it remains to be seen if the value continues to increase as it appears attendance is flagging with the decreasing quality and attention to improving the on ice product...or even providing it a meaningful and discernible direction.

[penscup]

Yup 7-3-3 in his last 13. It is like watching a broadcast..."he leads the league in secondary assists in the 3rd period of games on Tuesdays"...not a thing. If we don't cherry pick, he is 7-5-4 in his last 16. Let’s just add the immediate 3 games prior to the "13" where he was 0-2-1. Or...more importantly let’s just look at the fact that he is a pedestrian 8-6-4 this year, and a pitiful .889 and 3.43GA. And lets not talk about the absurd amount of first shot first goals or even first 5 shots first goals. That, while hard to quantify on a stat sheet, really does reduce the team's chance to win when they are down within 60 seconds every other game. Has not had a GAA under 2.9 in over 3 years.

That 2.90 GAA is good for 13th in league among goalies with equal or more starts for 22-23, and 16th in the league for 23-24.

I agree the early goals are a big concern right now and needs to be reduced, but he’s never really had this problem before so hopefully it is still correctable.

[Puck-Lurker]

If by your metrics and eye test, Jarry is an okay (not even going to go by really good or just good) goalie, I am not sure you're watching the games. By extension I would question your understanding of goaltenders in general.


But if sanity is to believe Jarry is a great goalie who is struggling momentarily behind a bad defense. I'm not sure I want that kind of sanity. Yes that defense is bad. No that is not a blanket excuse anyone can hide behind.

It would be NICE to see Jarry become an amazing goalie suddenly. We have better odds at #1 overall pick. But what do I know, I must be some super angry Jarry hater who wants nothing but for the franchise goaltender to perform as miserable as can be! Yes that must be it. So much hate!

Never said he was amazing or great goalie, in fact I hate that I have to even defend the guy because I don’t even like him. But the outrageous comments from you and other Jarry haters that continue to ignore the facts force me to.

7-3-3 in his last 13 games. How does that translate into Jarry gives this team zero chance to win or the floor has fallen out?? It shouldn’t be that hard to understand why he was signed to a 5 year deal and why he is still getting starts over the other options right now. Just look at his stats.

Okay, dude, stopping the hockey puck is clearly not a thing that interests you in a goalie and that's okay. Clearly that's outrageous, insane and hateful of me to think that matters.

I looked at his stats. I ignored goalies with less than 10 games.

.887 SV% -- #50 in the league
3.43 GAA -- #53 in the league

But you don't seem to want to engage with what I wrote, so I'll stop taking the bait from your rather persistent straw manning.

[KBone]

That win against the Oilers is just the kind of thing to trick everyone into thinking they can make the playoffs.

Now they'll blow more 2+ goal leads in the 3rd against Seattle and Buffalo.

[Puck-Lurker]

That win against the Oilers is just the kind of thing to trick everyone into thinking they can make the playoffs.

Now they'll blow more 2+ goal leads in the 3rd against Seattle and Buffalo.

Sad but true.

I want to believe.. but I just can't. They have, by and large, played pretty well of late. Results or no, they've been improved and improving. It's just those results keep us around .500

[Antonio]

That win against the Oilers is just the kind of thing to trick everyone into thinking they can make the playoffs.

Now they'll blow more 2+ goal leads in the 3rd against Seattle and Buffalo.

Eh I don't know. I know it made zero impact on me and I'm pretty sure most fans who know and watch this team at all weren't impacted by the win. We watched it, we enjoyed it, loved seeing them play some good hockey and put some goals up but I don't think anyone took that as a redefinition of the team... at least I hope not.

[penscup]

If by your metrics and eye test, Jarry is an okay (not even going to go by really good or just good) goalie, I am not sure you're watching the games. By extension I would question your understanding of goaltenders in general.


But if sanity is to believe Jarry is a great goalie who is struggling momentarily behind a bad defense. I'm not sure I want that kind of sanity. Yes that defense is bad. No that is not a blanket excuse anyone can hide behind.

It would be NICE to see Jarry become an amazing goalie suddenly. We have better odds at #1 overall pick. But what do I know, I must be some super angry Jarry hater who wants nothing but for the franchise goaltender to perform as miserable as can be! Yes that must be it. So much hate!

Never said he was amazing or great goalie, in fact I hate that I have to even defend the guy because I don’t even like him. But the outrageous comments from you and other Jarry haters that continue to ignore the facts force me to.

7-3-3 in his last 13 games. How does that translate into Jarry gives this team zero chance to win or the floor has fallen out?? It shouldn’t be that hard to understand why he was signed to a 5 year deal and why he is still getting starts over the other options right now. Just look at his stats.

Okay, dude, stopping the hockey puck is clearly not a thing that interests you in a goalie and that's okay. Clearly that's outrageous, insane and hateful of me to think that matters.

I looked at his stats. I ignored goalies with less than 10 games.

.887 SV% -- #50 in the league
3.43 GAA -- #53 in the league

But you don't seem to want to engage with what I wrote, so I'll stop taking the bait from your rather persistent straw manning.

So you would be happier with his performance if he was 3-7-3 right now with a .925 SV% and 2.55 GAA? Right?

Crazy.

[Daniel]

My thoughts.


- This team is not going to the playoffs. We still have some good players, but it isn't enough anymore. Maybe if you had a support cast of really exceptional cheap role players, you could make it work. We don't have that. There's this fever dream that the team could still make it.. and as we say here.. "you'll never know how a cow might be able to catch a hare". Not a realistic goal, even when other teams are crapping the bed harder than you at some point.

This remains to be seen.
Still half the season to go, that’s a lot of hockey left to play.

- Jarry needs to never play for Pittsburgh again unless we have 5 injured goalies. And even then you should be able to find an EBUG to play in his stead. Again and again and again and again.. setting records for giving up goals on the first five shots -- for giving up goals on the very first shot -- for giving up a goal right after Pens scored one. He's like some kind of anti-clutch goalie, consistently comes up with team back breaking plays and soft goals against. He turns 30 in April, we have seen enough of this polished turd. Spraying it with deodorant will not make the smell go away. His future should be healthy scratch, and letting Blomqvist or Larsson play alongside Ned. Then waivers and hope some GM is dumb enough to claim him (they won't). Jarry's cap relief would be higher than Blomqvist's salary for the first two years.

Your Jarry hate is insanely overboard.

Even great goalies struggle sometimes. Look at Shesterkin this year or Hellebuyck who can’t get out of the first round of the playoffs, or even Swayman who has a losing record. Jarry led the league in shutouts last year. He’s had solid regular season numbers his first 5 years in the league up until last season. He’s gone 7-3-3 in his last 13 games after faltering early on, but all you can focus is on how he doesn’t stop every single shot he faces. It’s beyond ridiculous. Let’s see how he performs the rest of the year before totally trashing him like you can’t wait to do.

He was 30th in the league in GAA and Save % and that's with 6 shutouts. He should be a really good goalie, but he's been a pretty average goalie with the Penguins. I don't hate him and think he should be good, but he's not a top tier goalie that can play behind a bad defense and will rarely win a game when the team is playing poorly.