Penguins Trade Deadline: Buyers and Sellers?

[FLPensFan]

To me that's a lot of higher risk "ifs" beyond just the players being acquired being guaranteed performers. Players that would need to restore performance to levels based on previous years that would be dependent on things like coaching and systems are automatic hard passes for me as long as dip **** is still here. I'm tired of retaining all the time.

Seems to me that MP should be moveable without retention. I mean it's a very high price for Zegras with injury issues and with defensive warts that is guaranteed to be misused, put in the dog house and subject to a Sullivan reeducation camp. Rakell and lots more for a guy that hopefully finds his game again and needs the right coach and system? Plus a retread in Zucker? Yeah no thanks all around. The first of the three is pretty much the only one I'm open to.

I get it, but at the same time...good, young, lower risk players aren't going to just fall into our lap. Those types of players are rarely moved, and if they are moved, they'll cost assets that we don't have. Maybe we skip the Zegras deal, and just go for Hoglander and picks, and then go for Cozens, plus look to move into the top 5 for the draft. In terms of Zucker, if we ship out Rakell, we need someone in the top 6. You either keep Beauvillier, or keep running Glass up there. Neither is ideal. Zucker is a UFA at season's end, so like I said, I'd only acquire him if the Penguins were in a WC spot or only 1-2 points away. I'd rather have Zucker for the rest of the year than some of the other guys who are clearly best as 3rd liners. Zucker knows the system and is having a good year.

On Sullivan, it is what it is. Everyone keeps saying he's rock solid safe, so being opposed to any change for the better because he's still here is just being opposed to any change. Maybe you get a Hoglander and a Cozens, you bring up McGroarty and 1-2 others next year, and if Sullivan doesn't make it work, you have more ammunition to move on from Sullivan. I'd like to see him gone, too, but since it doesn't appear to be on the table, I'm not going to avoid other changes because I don't have faith in Sullivan.

[FLPensFan]

OK, so I posted something similar on Twitter/X last night when having a discussion about Dubas and getting this team younger. Here's an "If FLPensFan was GM" scenario of what master plan I would try to pull off.

What would you think if the following series of events unfolded around the trade deadline:

1) Marcus Pettersson (50% retained), Drew O'Connor, and a 2025 3rd (MIN) to VANCOUVER for Nils Hoglander, 2025 1st (VAN), 2025 2nd (VAN)
---Vancouver doesn't have 3rd rounders in 2025 or 2026, otherwise I'd take a 3rd as the 2nd pick. Instead, we send a 3rd to get back a 2nd as part of the deal
---Seems like a high price for MP+? More reports of CBJ trying to re-sign Provorov, and Philly has said they do not want to trade Ristolainen. That severely lowers the higher end d-man pool, which should drive up Pettersson's price.

2) Rickard Rakell, Noel Acciari (cap purposes), Anthony Beauvillier (cap purposes), Ville Koivunen, 2026 2nd (STL) to BUFFALO for Dylan Cozens and Jason Zucker (50% retained)
---Buffalo is been rumored to be looking to move Cozens. He turns 24 in a few weeks. He's signed for 5 more years. This year and last year were down seasons for him....but, that 22-23 season with 31 goals and 68 points tells me the talent is there. Was it the coaching change? Is it tired of losing, which affects a lot of players? I dunno, but I'd be willing to take that risk that he can return to form.
---Zucker gives us a known player back, UFA after the season. If we are in place to push for playoffs, getting Zucker makes sense. If we are definitely out of playoffs, we can drop Zucker from the deal, and probably Beauvillier.
---Does Buffalo need Rakell? On the surface, yes, they need more consistent, veteran scoring for a reasonable price (ahem, not Jeff Skinner). If they are too far away, maybe Rakell doesn't make sense...but maybe you use Rakell to trade to another team, and use the resources gained in that trade to send to BUF.

3) Nils Hoglander, Tanner Howe, 2026 1st round pick to ANAHEIM for Trevor Zegras
--Anaheim gets a 1st, a good young NHLer and a B-level prospect for Zegras
--Zegras has his warts. He's not good defensively or doesn't put in the effort defensively. He turns 24 in March. He has back to back 23 goal, 60+ point seasons in 21-22 and 22-23. Injured and down year last year.
--Zegras has been in trade rumors for 2 years. Similar to Cozens, he's shown he can put up the numbers. Was his downtrend due to coaching change, is it tired of losing? The talent is there. Give him the rest of this season on a 3rd line, with Sully forcing him to pay attention to defense. You may never get him to be Matt Nieto, but anything you can do to improve him defensively helps.

4) Trade VAN 2025 1st and PIT 2025 1st to move into the top 5. Draft one of Hagens, McQueen, or Misa. This draft is top heavy in potential centers. Hagens, McQueen, Misa, Frondell, and Desnoyers. There's a big drop off after those guys. Make your move and get a young top 6 center. If you get Cozens to work and have something like Misa-Cozens as your 1-2 punch, that's a big part of getting back to contender quickly.

Bunting-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Cozens
Zegras-Hayes-Tomasino
Nieto-Lizotte-Glass

Go with this for the rest of the year. Next year, McGroarty replaces Zucker, and McGroary & Zegras can battle for 2nd line duty. In maybe a year, you bring in your top C, move Malkin to wing.

Do I think all of the above can be accomplished? No. Do I think all of the above is extremely far fetched? No. These are the types of moves and big swings that Dubas needs to take. I'd rather whiff on a 24 year old Cozens at 7.1M AAV than a 32 year old defenseman at 10M AAV. Some of the above moves may need more pieces, some may need less. Pulling all of them off would be a feat of pure magic. But, these are the types of moves I want Dubas looking for to turn this team around quickly.

I cant go there or send that much for Zegras. He is not an elite player to give that much up for him. Pretty soft player as well.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling Zegras may just be too much risk. What I'd probably do instead is trade Rakell to a contender for major pieces, and use some of those pieces to get Cozens. I'm not overly sold on Hoglander as a Penguin. I know what people want him to be, but it seems he plays a bit too much on the perimeter...and I've read similar comments/reports about top VAN prospect Lekkerimaki.

MP, DOC to VAN for Hoglander and 2025 1st
Rakell to somewhere for 2025 1st, high end prospect, young NHL player
Flip Hoglander, a 1st, and some cap dumps (Acciari, Beauvillier) to BUF for Cozens
Flip our 1st and an acquired 1st with a team to move into the top 3-5 picks of this year's draft.

Then you come away with Cozens and someone like Hagens/Misa/McQueen.

[thehockeyguru]

Wonder if Winnipeg would take Rakell for Yager and a pick?

[FLPensFan]

Wonder if Winnipeg would take Rakell for Yager and a pick?

I don't really know what Winnipeg would need at the deadline, if anything:
--They are 2nd in the league in points.
--They are 2nd in the league in goal differential.
--They are 1st in the league in goals for.
--They are 4th in the league in goals against.

If they don't plan to re-sign Ehlers, Rakell would make an ok replacement for cheaper than Ehlers current contract.

[thehockeyguru]

Wonder if Winnipeg would take Rakell for Yager and a pick?

I don't really know what Winnipeg would need at the deadline, if anything:
--They are 2nd in the league in points.
--They are 2nd in the league in goal differential.
--They are 1st in the league in goals for.
--They are 4th in the league in goals against.

If they don't plan to re-sign Ehlers, Rakell would make an ok replacement for cheaper than Ehlers current contract.

Rakell would be an Iafallo upgrade

[dark_forces]

OK, so I posted something similar on Twitter/X last night when having a discussion about Dubas and getting this team younger. Here's an "If FLPensFan was GM" scenario of what master plan I would try to pull off.

What would you think if the following series of events unfolded around the trade deadline:

1) Marcus Pettersson (50% retained), Drew O'Connor, and a 2025 3rd (MIN) to VANCOUVER for Nils Hoglander, 2025 1st (VAN), 2025 2nd (VAN)
---Vancouver doesn't have 3rd rounders in 2025 or 2026, otherwise I'd take a 3rd as the 2nd pick. Instead, we send a 3rd to get back a 2nd as part of the deal
---Seems like a high price for MP+? More reports of CBJ trying to re-sign Provorov, and Philly has said they do not want to trade Ristolainen. That severely lowers the higher end d-man pool, which should drive up Pettersson's price.

2) Rickard Rakell, Noel Acciari (cap purposes), Anthony Beauvillier (cap purposes), Ville Koivunen, 2026 2nd (STL) to BUFFALO for Dylan Cozens and Jason Zucker (50% retained)
---Buffalo is been rumored to be looking to move Cozens. He turns 24 in a few weeks. He's signed for 5 more years. This year and last year were down seasons for him....but, that 22-23 season with 31 goals and 68 points tells me the talent is there. Was it the coaching change? Is it tired of losing, which affects a lot of players? I dunno, but I'd be willing to take that risk that he can return to form.
---Zucker gives us a known player back, UFA after the season. If we are in place to push for playoffs, getting Zucker makes sense. If we are definitely out of playoffs, we can drop Zucker from the deal, and probably Beauvillier.
---Does Buffalo need Rakell? On the surface, yes, they need more consistent, veteran scoring for a reasonable price (ahem, not Jeff Skinner). If they are too far away, maybe Rakell doesn't make sense...but maybe you use Rakell to trade to another team, and use the resources gained in that trade to send to BUF.

3) Nils Hoglander, Tanner Howe, 2026 1st round pick to ANAHEIM for Trevor Zegras
--Anaheim gets a 1st, a good young NHLer and a B-level prospect for Zegras
--Zegras has his warts. He's not good defensively or doesn't put in the effort defensively. He turns 24 in March. He has back to back 23 goal, 60+ point seasons in 21-22 and 22-23. Injured and down year last year.
--Zegras has been in trade rumors for 2 years. Similar to Cozens, he's shown he can put up the numbers. Was his downtrend due to coaching change, is it tired of losing? The talent is there. Give him the rest of this season on a 3rd line, with Sully forcing him to pay attention to defense. You may never get him to be Matt Nieto, but anything you can do to improve him defensively helps.

4) Trade VAN 2025 1st and PIT 2025 1st to move into the top 5. Draft one of Hagens, McQueen, or Misa. This draft is top heavy in potential centers. Hagens, McQueen, Misa, Frondell, and Desnoyers. There's a big drop off after those guys. Make your move and get a young top 6 center. If you get Cozens to work and have something like Misa-Cozens as your 1-2 punch, that's a big part of getting back to contender quickly.

Bunting-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Cozens
Zegras-Hayes-Tomasino
Nieto-Lizotte-Glass

Go with this for the rest of the year. Next year, McGroarty replaces Zucker, and McGroary & Zegras can battle for 2nd line duty. In maybe a year, you bring in your top C, move Malkin to wing.

Do I think all of the above can be accomplished? No. Do I think all of the above is extremely far fetched? No. These are the types of moves and big swings that Dubas needs to take. I'd rather whiff on a 24 year old Cozens at 7.1M AAV than a 32 year old defenseman at 10M AAV. Some of the above moves may need more pieces, some may need less. Pulling all of them off would be a feat of pure magic. But, these are the types of moves I want Dubas looking for to turn this team around quickly.

I cant go there or send that much for Zegras. He is not an elite player to give that much up for him. Pretty soft player as well.

Yeah, I'm getting the feeling Zegras may just be too much risk. What I'd probably do instead is trade Rakell to a contender for major pieces, and use some of those pieces to get Cozens. I'm not overly sold on Hoglander as a Penguin. I know what people want him to be, but it seems he plays a bit too much on the perimeter...and I've read similar comments/reports about top VAN prospect Lekkerimaki.

MP, DOC to VAN for Hoglander and 2025 1st
Rakell to somewhere for 2025 1st, high end prospect, young NHL player
Flip Hoglander, a 1st, and some cap dumps (Acciari, Beauvillier) to BUF for Cozens
Flip our 1st and an acquired 1st with a team to move into the top 3-5 picks of this year's draft.

Then you come away with Cozens and someone like Hagens/Misa/McQueen.

TIOPS has a piece expounding on Friedman's comments about Dubas being interested in Buffalo's young, NHL ready talent. They mention specifically Benson as a player that Dubas has been high on. I'm not sure what would be going back, or if it's a three-way trade where some of the assets acquired for Pettersson and/or DOC are turned around and sent to Buffalo. But, it's interesting discussion fodder and seems like a scenario you could see unfold.

[largegarlic]

I listened to Madden on the drive home today, and he had our very own Jesse Marshall on talking about the trade deadline and how various prospects looked. Some things that struck me:

--Jesse likes the idea of Pettersson going to Vancouver for Hoglander + a pick. He thinks Hoglander is the type of player Dubas is targeting who is youngish, has skill, and just isn't fitting in with his current team for some reason.

--He does think Dubas is interested in a deal with Buffalo, since they have a lot of good prospects who seem close to NHL-ready. But, like a lot of us, Jesse wasn't sure what we have that Buffalo would want. The only guy he thought that sort of made sense was Rakell, but he wasn't sure he would really interest Buffalo, and he didn't think they'd deal Crosby's best winger again. He said he could see Rakell moved but probably not until summer.

--Outside of Pettersson, he thought that Beauvillier and O'Conner could have interest around the league at the deadline but obviously wouldn't bring a huge return.

Madden then asked him which prospects he thought would come up once some guys are dealt.

--Jesse really likes Broz and thinks he might be up already if he didn't have mono. He said he reminds him a bit of Rust.

--Then, next up for him would Koivunen. He thought Koivunen might have difficulty adjusting to the North American game and might be too much east/west stylistically, but he said that he's been pleasantly surprised by how quickly he goes north/south and doesn't shy away from mucking it up on the boards or near the crease. He thinks he'll be a good NHLer.

--He was a bit disappointed by Ponomarev but said he could be a Teddy Bleuger type--good 4C and ok 3C in a pinch.

--The most surprising thing was when Madden asked him who was most likely to be the Pens starting goalie in 3 years, Murashov or Blomqvist, Jesse said Larsson. He thought Murashov has real problems with rebound control, and Blomqvist has real problems with high shots to the far post (glove or blocker), whereas Larsson looks like the total package and has the size of a prototypical modern NHL goalie.

[Pens4Life]

Goalies mature late anyway.. Larsson should be in NHL right now,if not injured!

Larsson, Murashov I think will be our duo in next years..

[FLPensFan]

Goalies mature late anyway.. Larsson should be in NHL right now,if not injured!

Larsson, Murashov I think will be our duo in next years..

Agreed. And even then, they still sometimes have holes in their game. How often did 22 year old Matt Murray get beat glove side, right above the left pad? Blomqvist, I've been saying since the Edmonton game that he has a high blocker weakness. Pretty sure all 5 goals EDM scored were all high blocker. I haven't noticed the issue as much on the glove side. I feel like that is coachable to fix.

Murashov, I haven't seen enough to notice a rebound issue, but again, I feel like that is something coachable that can be fixed.

Larsson is a bit older, so I would expect him to be a bit more polished, but I'm not sure he has as high of a potential ceiling as Blomqvist and Murashov.

[EndO FanEra]

OK, so I posted something similar on Twitter/X last night when having a discussion about Dubas and getting this team younger. Here's an "If FLPensFan was GM" scenario of what master plan I would try to pull off.

What would you think if the following series of events unfolded around the trade deadline:

1) Marcus Pettersson (50% retained), Drew O'Connor, and a 2025 3rd (MIN) to VANCOUVER for Nils Hoglander, 2025 1st (VAN), 2025 2nd (VAN)
---Vancouver doesn't have 3rd rounders in 2025 or 2026, otherwise I'd take a 3rd as the 2nd pick. Instead, we send a 3rd to get back a 2nd as part of the deal
---Seems like a high price for MP+? More reports of CBJ trying to re-sign Provorov, and Philly has said they do not want to trade Ristolainen. That severely lowers the higher end d-man pool, which should drive up Pettersson's price.

2) Rickard Rakell, Noel Acciari (cap purposes), Anthony Beauvillier (cap purposes), Ville Koivunen, 2026 2nd (STL) to BUFFALO for Dylan Cozens and Jason Zucker (50% retained)
---Buffalo is been rumored to be looking to move Cozens. He turns 24 in a few weeks. He's signed for 5 more years. This year and last year were down seasons for him....but, that 22-23 season with 31 goals and 68 points tells me the talent is there. Was it the coaching change? Is it tired of losing, which affects a lot of players? I dunno, but I'd be willing to take that risk that he can return to form.
---Zucker gives us a known player back, UFA after the season. If we are in place to push for playoffs, getting Zucker makes sense. If we are definitely out of playoffs, we can drop Zucker from the deal, and probably Beauvillier.
---Does Buffalo need Rakell? On the surface, yes, they need more consistent, veteran scoring for a reasonable price (ahem, not Jeff Skinner). If they are too far away, maybe Rakell doesn't make sense...but maybe you use Rakell to trade to another team, and use the resources gained in that trade to send to BUF.

3) Nils Hoglander, Tanner Howe, 2026 1st round pick to ANAHEIM for Trevor Zegras
--Anaheim gets a 1st, a good young NHLer and a B-level prospect for Zegras
--Zegras has his warts. He's not good defensively or doesn't put in the effort defensively. He turns 24 in March. He has back to back 23 goal, 60+ point seasons in 21-22 and 22-23. Injured and down year last year.
--Zegras has been in trade rumors for 2 years. Similar to Cozens, he's shown he can put up the numbers. Was his downtrend due to coaching change, is it tired of losing? The talent is there. Give him the rest of this season on a 3rd line, with Sully forcing him to pay attention to defense. You may never get him to be Matt Nieto, but anything you can do to improve him defensively helps.

4) Trade VAN 2025 1st and PIT 2025 1st to move into the top 5. Draft one of Hagens, McQueen, or Misa. This draft is top heavy in potential centers. Hagens, McQueen, Misa, Frondell, and Desnoyers. There's a big drop off after those guys. Make your move and get a young top 6 center. If you get Cozens to work and have something like Misa-Cozens as your 1-2 punch, that's a big part of getting back to contender quickly.

Bunting-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Cozens
Zegras-Hayes-Tomasino
Nieto-Lizotte-Glass

Go with this for the rest of the year. Next year, McGroarty replaces Zucker, and McGroary & Zegras can battle for 2nd line duty. In maybe a year, you bring in your top C, move Malkin to wing.

Do I think all of the above can be accomplished? No. Do I think all of the above is extremely far fetched? No. These are the types of moves and big swings that Dubas needs to take. I'd rather whiff on a 24 year old Cozens at 7.1M AAV than a 32 year old defenseman at 10M AAV. Some of the above moves may need more pieces, some may need less. Pulling all of them off would be a feat of pure magic. But, these are the types of moves I want Dubas looking for to turn this team around quickly.

First reaction:
1) Yes. Getting a 1st out of Pettersson is worth the assets going out.
2) No way, giving up too much.
3) See #2
4) Yes, absolutely. That should be the #1 goal of Dubas, to get into the top 5 somehow. I don't have faith that he'll pull it off, but that would be fantastic.

Second thoughts:
I like the ideas of Cozens and Zegras, but those prices are a little steep for my liking. Maybe if Koivunen or the 2nd wasn't in the Cozens deal and the 1st was a 2nd in the Zegras deal. I don't doubt that's probably what it would take to get the deal done, but that just seems like a lot for a Rakell to Cozens upgrade and a 1st + for Zegras with his question marks.

Third assessment:
Then again, you have to give to get, and those are two young players that can (potentially) be difference makers going forward. The more I've dissected the proposals, the more I'd be open to considering it. We need to take some swings, and those are the types of players we should probably be targeting.

Which brings me to something I've been wondering lately. I don't follow other teams as much as I used to and don't have a great read on many of the younger NHL players and prospects. I would be interested to hear some of the "reasonably feasible" targets that everyone thinks would be ideal to build around going forward?

I think Cozens would be a great target for a 3C/2C role. I'd also like to add another Lizotte type player for the bottom 6 (tenacious and/or physical with speed & flexibility). If we ship out Rakell and/or Bunting at the deadline, maybe a top 6 option to fill in there (i.e. similar to your Zegras option). On D, my guess is that we'll need some help on the left side with Petey and possibly Grzelcyk/Graves being moved. Byram from Buffalo maybe?

Those are some of the more talked about names, but I'm guessing there's a lot of other options out there that I know very little about.

[EndO FanEra]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

[john66]

I was in Pittsburgh 2 weeks ago for Ottawa and Tampa. Seattle came into town Sunday night. Monday AM when I was leaving the hotel, Dubas was meeting with Ron Francis in the lobby. I was a bit shocked that they were just sitting in the lobby with their Starbucks chatting. But, maybe things are in the works.

[FLPensFan]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

Your deal may not be as far-fetched as you think....

[Daniel]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

I think that's too much to give up, unless one of the picks is a 2nd swap and the prospects are blue chip.

Number one, that contract is way too high and way too long and the only good thing about it is no trade protection. While he's a great player, he'll be over 30 before the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think they need to get even younger than his 26 so they might be in their prime when the Pens are ready to compete.

Now if the Penguins got rid of Sullivan and some of the dead weight and you think this puts us over the top, that's an entirely different discussion. I think the Pens can compete in 2-3 years but only with Sullivan gone and good moves prior to a huge move like this.

[EndO FanEra]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

Your deal may not be as far-fetched as you think....

Well, alrighty then...

I would imagine Vancouver will want a C back to fill in the hole, so if Rakell doesn't cut it, we'd likely have to get a 3rd team involved. Maybe Rakell goes to the 3rd team and an equivalent C to Vancouver.

I think there will be better packages for E. Pettersson, but I hope Dubas is at least kicking the tires. Players of that age/caliber don't become available often, unless there are some fairly big concerns/warts.

He's the type/caliber player I would be okay overpaying a little bit for, assuming he fits the future vision of the team. Instead of waiting for a 1st round pick to develop into a top 6 C, you already have a guy that you can start to build a roster around ASAP. Him and Sid as the 1C/2C for the next 2-4 years is a decent foundation. If Geno hangs around, he can slide to W and fill in at C if/when either of those two miss any time.

It also allows you to focus more on revamping the W's, bottom 6, and defense in the offseason and at the draft.

[EndO FanEra]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

I think that's too much to give up, unless one of the picks is a 2nd swap and the prospects are blue chip.

Number one, that contract is way too high and way too long and the only good thing about it is no trade protection. While he's a great player, he'll be over 30 before the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think they need to get even younger than his 26 so they might be in their prime when the Pens are ready to compete.

Now if the Penguins got rid of Sullivan and some of the dead weight and you think this puts us over the top, that's an entirely different discussion. I think the Pens can compete in 2-3 years but only with Sullivan gone and good moves prior to a huge move like this.

Out of curiosity, is it just that you don't want the Pens to part with that much for him, or that his value is not on par with a package like that?

I was mostly basing that off of his age, draft pedigree, C position, and the little I've seen him play. I assumed it would take a 1st, top 9 replacement/lesser C, pretty decent prospect/player. and maybe some things to even out the cap.

You are right though, that is a pretty big contract. With the cap going up though, I don't think it will be a problem. Especially if we can rid ourselves of the Karlsson contract at some point.

I think any move anyone of us talk about assumes the caveat of Sullivan being gone. Player moves are not going to change the trajectory of this team. We may get a little better or a little worse, but it's going to be more of the same until we move on.

[Daniel]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

I think that's too much to give up, unless one of the picks is a 2nd swap and the prospects are blue chip.

Number one, that contract is way too high and way too long and the only good thing about it is no trade protection. While he's a great player, he'll be over 30 before the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think they need to get even younger than his 26 so they might be in their prime when the Pens are ready to compete.

Now if the Penguins got rid of Sullivan and some of the dead weight and you think this puts us over the top, that's an entirely different discussion. I think the Pens can compete in 2-3 years but only with Sullivan gone and good moves prior to a huge move like this.

Out of curiosity, is it just that you don't want the Pens to part with that much for him, or that his value is not on par with a package like that?

I was mostly basing that off of his age, draft pedigree, C position, and the little I've seen him play. I assumed it would take a 1st, top 9 replacement/lesser C, pretty decent prospect/player. and maybe some things to even out the cap.

You are right though, that is a pretty big contract. With the cap going up though, I don't think it will be a problem. Especially if we can rid ourselves of the Karlsson contract at some point.

I think any move anyone of us talk about assumes the caveat of Sullivan being gone. Player moves are not going to change the trajectory of this team. We may get a little better or a little worse, but it's going to be more of the same until we move on.

I think that trade is right on par with what he should get. The issue isn't the trade it's that Pettesson won't be in his prime when the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think Pettersson (D), Rakell, 2nd should be at least 4 assets under the age of 25. Right now, just get quantity and if at the end of the they get a bunch of 2nd/3rd line guys, maybe someone overachieves to the 1st line (ie Jake/Rust) then they're 1 top 5 pick away from contention.

An Elias Pettersson trade implies the Penguins have most of the other pieces in place and he might jump start them into a 1st round exit and lower draft pick. I'd say right now, the Penguins have about about 10 players who could help in a rebuild (McGroarty, Howe, Ponomarev, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, Brunicke, Belliveau, Pieniniemi, Blomqvist, Murashov). Obviously all won't make it, which makes it even worse of a list.

[dark_forces]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

I think that's too much to give up, unless one of the picks is a 2nd swap and the prospects are blue chip.

Number one, that contract is way too high and way too long and the only good thing about it is no trade protection. While he's a great player, he'll be over 30 before the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think they need to get even younger than his 26 so they might be in their prime when the Pens are ready to compete.

Now if the Penguins got rid of Sullivan and some of the dead weight and you think this puts us over the top, that's an entirely different discussion. I think the Pens can compete in 2-3 years but only with Sullivan gone and good moves prior to a huge move like this.

Out of curiosity, is it just that you don't want the Pens to part with that much for him, or that his value is not on par with a package like that?

I was mostly basing that off of his age, draft pedigree, C position, and the little I've seen him play. I assumed it would take a 1st, top 9 replacement/lesser C, pretty decent prospect/player. and maybe some things to even out the cap.

You are right though, that is a pretty big contract. With the cap going up though, I don't think it will be a problem. Especially if we can rid ourselves of the Karlsson contract at some point.

I think any move anyone of us talk about assumes the caveat of Sullivan being gone. Player moves are not going to change the trajectory of this team. We may get a little better or a little worse, but it's going to be more of the same until we move on.

I think that trade is right on par with what he should get. The issue isn't the trade it's that Pettesson won't be in his prime when the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think Pettersson (D), Rakell, 2nd should be at least 4 assets under the age of 25. Right now, just get quantity and if at the end of the they get a bunch of 2nd/3rd line guys, maybe someone overachieves to the 1st line (ie Jake/Rust) then they're 1 top 5 pick away from contention.

An Elias Pettersson trade implies the Penguins have most of the other pieces in place and he might jump start them into a 1st round exit and lower draft pick. I'd say right now, the Penguins have about about 10 players who could help in a rebuild (McGroarty, Howe, Ponomarev, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, Brunicke, Belliveau, Pieniniemi, Blomqvist, Murashov). Obviously all won't make it, which makes it even worse of a list.

I agree 100%. If we can get someone like Dylan Cozens for less, and is more in line with the other young players we have, why overpay and give up all those assets for E. Pettersson?

[Daniel]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

I think that's too much to give up, unless one of the picks is a 2nd swap and the prospects are blue chip.

Number one, that contract is way too high and way too long and the only good thing about it is no trade protection. While he's a great player, he'll be over 30 before the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think they need to get even younger than his 26 so they might be in their prime when the Pens are ready to compete.

Now if the Penguins got rid of Sullivan and some of the dead weight and you think this puts us over the top, that's an entirely different discussion. I think the Pens can compete in 2-3 years but only with Sullivan gone and good moves prior to a huge move like this.

Out of curiosity, is it just that you don't want the Pens to part with that much for him, or that his value is not on par with a package like that?

I was mostly basing that off of his age, draft pedigree, C position, and the little I've seen him play. I assumed it would take a 1st, top 9 replacement/lesser C, pretty decent prospect/player. and maybe some things to even out the cap.

You are right though, that is a pretty big contract. With the cap going up though, I don't think it will be a problem. Especially if we can rid ourselves of the Karlsson contract at some point.

I think any move anyone of us talk about assumes the caveat of Sullivan being gone. Player moves are not going to change the trajectory of this team. We may get a little better or a little worse, but it's going to be more of the same until we move on.

I think that trade is right on par with what he should get. The issue isn't the trade it's that Pettesson won't be in his prime when the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think Pettersson (D), Rakell, 2nd should be at least 4 assets under the age of 25. Right now, just get quantity and if at the end of the they get a bunch of 2nd/3rd line guys, maybe someone overachieves to the 1st line (ie Jake/Rust) then they're 1 top 5 pick away from contention.

An Elias Pettersson trade implies the Penguins have most of the other pieces in place and he might jump start them into a 1st round exit and lower draft pick. I'd say right now, the Penguins have about about 10 players who could help in a rebuild (McGroarty, Howe, Ponomarev, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, Brunicke, Belliveau, Pieniniemi, Blomqvist, Murashov). Obviously all won't make it, which makes it even worse of a list.

I agree 100%. If we can get someone like Dylan Cozens for less, and is more in line with the other young players we have, why overpay and give up all those assets for E. Pettersson?

Shoot, the Canucks PP is bad and their top RH defensemen is Friedman, I'd send them Karlsson with Pettersson for an even better return. I wonder how they'd help down the stretch.

[EndO FanEra]

I noticed something interesting recently and it got me thinking about a fantasyland trade offer for Vancouver.

Rakell is listed as a C/W on multiple sites. As far as I can recall, he's played only W for the Pens. I don't know how well he plays at C, but with his value being higher than ever, is there any chance that Vancouver would consider something like this:

To Van: Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

The retention on Rakell sucks for us, because it's for the next 3 years on top of this one. I wanted to try to keep our first though, so I dropped that to a 2nd and added the retention. If Rakell is capable as a 2C, Miller takes 1C and Rakell becomes a $3M-$4M 2C. If not, he can become their Boeser replacement at half the price if they trade him or let him walk.

From what it sounds though, Miller is the one getting moved and Pettersson is not going anywhere. On top of that, it's still probably not enough coming from the Pens side. E. Pettersson would be a nice 2C behind Sid for now and Geno can slide to W for the rest of the season. Eventually Pettersson can take over as 1C when Sid starts to tail off a bit (more).

I think that's too much to give up, unless one of the picks is a 2nd swap and the prospects are blue chip.

Number one, that contract is way too high and way too long and the only good thing about it is no trade protection. While he's a great player, he'll be over 30 before the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think they need to get even younger than his 26 so they might be in their prime when the Pens are ready to compete.

Now if the Penguins got rid of Sullivan and some of the dead weight and you think this puts us over the top, that's an entirely different discussion. I think the Pens can compete in 2-3 years but only with Sullivan gone and good moves prior to a huge move like this.

Out of curiosity, is it just that you don't want the Pens to part with that much for him, or that his value is not on par with a package like that?

I was mostly basing that off of his age, draft pedigree, C position, and the little I've seen him play. I assumed it would take a 1st, top 9 replacement/lesser C, pretty decent prospect/player. and maybe some things to even out the cap.

You are right though, that is a pretty big contract. With the cap going up though, I don't think it will be a problem. Especially if we can rid ourselves of the Karlsson contract at some point.

I think any move anyone of us talk about assumes the caveat of Sullivan being gone. Player moves are not going to change the trajectory of this team. We may get a little better or a little worse, but it's going to be more of the same until we move on.

I think that trade is right on par with what he should get. The issue isn't the trade it's that Pettesson won't be in his prime when the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think Pettersson (D), Rakell, 2nd should be at least 4 assets under the age of 25. Right now, just get quantity and if at the end of the they get a bunch of 2nd/3rd line guys, maybe someone overachieves to the 1st line (ie Jake/Rust) then they're 1 top 5 pick away from contention.

An Elias Pettersson trade implies the Penguins have most of the other pieces in place and he might jump start them into a 1st round exit and lower draft pick. I'd say right now, the Penguins have about about 10 players who could help in a rebuild (McGroarty, Howe, Ponomarev, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, Brunicke, Belliveau, Pieniniemi, Blomqvist, Murashov). Obviously all won't make it, which makes it even worse of a list.

I agree 100%. If we can get someone like Dylan Cozens for less, and is more in line with the other young players we have, why overpay and give up all those assets for E. Pettersson?

I'm down for either of those guys as an option.

I don't know how accurate either of our proposals are for E. Pettersson and Cozens, but they're not all that far apart value wise.

To Van: M. Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

To Buf: Rickard Rakell, Noel Acciari (cap purposes), Anthony Beauvillier (cap purposes), Ville Koivunen, 2026 2nd (STL)
To Pit: Dylan Cozens and Jason Zucker (50% retained)

Both have Rakell & a 2nd going out. Difference is Rakell's retention and Pettersson vs Acciari, Beauvillier, & Koivunen. I would say that Pettersson and retention is the higher value than those 3, but I do think that Beau and Koivunen have some/decent value.

Coming back with Cozens is Zucker. To me, Zucker may have value to a playoff team, but not with the Pens. Forget the cap hit and his age, it's just adding another vet to block an opportunity for the youth. So, if we're taking Zucker back, to me, it's because we have to, not because we want to. I don't know it if evens out the difference in Petterson going out, but those two packages aren't all that far apart in my eyes.

Now, Cozens is 3 years younger and $4.5M cheaper, so there is definitely value in that. I haven't seen enough of either of them to know how they stack up taking things like salary, age, team, etc. into consideration.

So, is the difference in performance between Cozens & Pettersson equivalent to the difference in age/salary? Your guess is probably better than mine.

I just hope that Dubas is looking into some impact players like that, that can help take some of the pressure off of Sid & Geno going forward. I'm down for some more Tomasino & Lizotte types, but I think we need at least one guy that moves the needle on a regular basis.

[FLPensFan]

I think that's too much to give up, unless one of the picks is a 2nd swap and the prospects are blue chip.

Number one, that contract is way too high and way too long and the only good thing about it is no trade protection. While he's a great player, he'll be over 30 before the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think they need to get even younger than his 26 so they might be in their prime when the Pens are ready to compete.

Now if the Penguins got rid of Sullivan and some of the dead weight and you think this puts us over the top, that's an entirely different discussion. I think the Pens can compete in 2-3 years but only with Sullivan gone and good moves prior to a huge move like this.

Out of curiosity, is it just that you don't want the Pens to part with that much for him, or that his value is not on par with a package like that?

I was mostly basing that off of his age, draft pedigree, C position, and the little I've seen him play. I assumed it would take a 1st, top 9 replacement/lesser C, pretty decent prospect/player. and maybe some things to even out the cap.

You are right though, that is a pretty big contract. With the cap going up though, I don't think it will be a problem. Especially if we can rid ourselves of the Karlsson contract at some point.

I think any move anyone of us talk about assumes the caveat of Sullivan being gone. Player moves are not going to change the trajectory of this team. We may get a little better or a little worse, but it's going to be more of the same until we move on.

I think that trade is right on par with what he should get. The issue isn't the trade it's that Pettesson won't be in his prime when the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think Pettersson (D), Rakell, 2nd should be at least 4 assets under the age of 25. Right now, just get quantity and if at the end of the they get a bunch of 2nd/3rd line guys, maybe someone overachieves to the 1st line (ie Jake/Rust) then they're 1 top 5 pick away from contention.

An Elias Pettersson trade implies the Penguins have most of the other pieces in place and he might jump start them into a 1st round exit and lower draft pick. I'd say right now, the Penguins have about about 10 players who could help in a rebuild (McGroarty, Howe, Ponomarev, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, Brunicke, Belliveau, Pieniniemi, Blomqvist, Murashov). Obviously all won't make it, which makes it even worse of a list.

I agree 100%. If we can get someone like Dylan Cozens for less, and is more in line with the other young players we have, why overpay and give up all those assets for E. Pettersson?

I'm down for either of those guys as an option.

I don't know how accurate either of our proposals are for E. Pettersson and Cozens, but they're not all that far apart value wise.

To Van: M. Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

To Buf: Rickard Rakell, Noel Acciari (cap purposes), Anthony Beauvillier (cap purposes), Ville Koivunen, 2026 2nd (STL)
To Pit: Dylan Cozens and Jason Zucker (50% retained)

Both have Rakell & a 2nd going out. Difference is Rakell's retention and Pettersson vs Acciari, Beauvillier, & Koivunen. I would say that Pettersson and retention is the higher value than those 3, but I do think that Beau and Koivunen have some/decent value.

Coming back with Cozens is Zucker. To me, Zucker may have value to a playoff team, but not with the Pens. Forget the cap hit and his age, it's just adding another vet to block an opportunity for the youth. So, if we're taking Zucker back, to me, it's because we have to, not because we want to. I don't know it if evens out the difference in Petterson going out, but those two packages aren't all that far apart in my eyes.

Now, Cozens is 3 years younger and $4.5M cheaper, so there is definitely value in that. I haven't seen enough of either of them to know how they stack up taking things like salary, age, team, etc. into consideration.

So, is the difference in performance between Cozens & Pettersson equivalent to the difference in age/salary? Your guess is probably better than mine.

I just hope that Dubas is looking into some impact players like that, that can help take some of the pressure off of Sid & Geno going forward. I'm down for some more Tomasino & Lizotte types, but I think we need at least one guy that moves the needle on a regular basis.

If you are talking about building around someone, I'd take Cozens almost every time, simply because he is 2 years younger.

I also would not get too attached to any prospect we have in our system, and potentially any prospect we draft in the next 2 years. The chances of the team drafting the right pieces and putting everything together on the first try are pretty low. Some of these guys, if we were to go out and get them, really wouldn't be for building around, but rather, to acquire the pieces to build around.

I don't think there is a single player in our system right now that we absolutely must keep and build around. Quite frankly, I don't think we have an A-level guy in our system. We have some solid B-level guys, but, there are no forwards that are essentially top 6 forwards. There are no d-men in our system that are guaranteed top pairing guys.

So, we can try for a quick rebuild on the fly, but some of that may be acquiring young guys with good upside and potential, and eventually flipping them for high picks or other players young players a few years down the road.

[FLPensFan]

It's time to make a move Dubas....

[Daniel]

Out of curiosity, is it just that you don't want the Pens to part with that much for him, or that his value is not on par with a package like that?

I was mostly basing that off of his age, draft pedigree, C position, and the little I've seen him play. I assumed it would take a 1st, top 9 replacement/lesser C, pretty decent prospect/player. and maybe some things to even out the cap.

You are right though, that is a pretty big contract. With the cap going up though, I don't think it will be a problem. Especially if we can rid ourselves of the Karlsson contract at some point.

I think any move anyone of us talk about assumes the caveat of Sullivan being gone. Player moves are not going to change the trajectory of this team. We may get a little better or a little worse, but it's going to be more of the same until we move on.

I think that trade is right on par with what he should get. The issue isn't the trade it's that Pettesson won't be in his prime when the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think Pettersson (D), Rakell, 2nd should be at least 4 assets under the age of 25. Right now, just get quantity and if at the end of the they get a bunch of 2nd/3rd line guys, maybe someone overachieves to the 1st line (ie Jake/Rust) then they're 1 top 5 pick away from contention.

An Elias Pettersson trade implies the Penguins have most of the other pieces in place and he might jump start them into a 1st round exit and lower draft pick. I'd say right now, the Penguins have about about 10 players who could help in a rebuild (McGroarty, Howe, Ponomarev, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, Brunicke, Belliveau, Pieniniemi, Blomqvist, Murashov). Obviously all won't make it, which makes it even worse of a list.

I agree 100%. If we can get someone like Dylan Cozens for less, and is more in line with the other young players we have, why overpay and give up all those assets for E. Pettersson?

I'm down for either of those guys as an option.

I don't know how accurate either of our proposals are for E. Pettersson and Cozens, but they're not all that far apart value wise.

To Van: M. Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

To Buf: Rickard Rakell, Noel Acciari (cap purposes), Anthony Beauvillier (cap purposes), Ville Koivunen, 2026 2nd (STL)
To Pit: Dylan Cozens and Jason Zucker (50% retained)

Both have Rakell & a 2nd going out. Difference is Rakell's retention and Pettersson vs Acciari, Beauvillier, & Koivunen. I would say that Pettersson and retention is the higher value than those 3, but I do think that Beau and Koivunen have some/decent value.

Coming back with Cozens is Zucker. To me, Zucker may have value to a playoff team, but not with the Pens. Forget the cap hit and his age, it's just adding another vet to block an opportunity for the youth. So, if we're taking Zucker back, to me, it's because we have to, not because we want to. I don't know it if evens out the difference in Petterson going out, but those two packages aren't all that far apart in my eyes.

Now, Cozens is 3 years younger and $4.5M cheaper, so there is definitely value in that. I haven't seen enough of either of them to know how they stack up taking things like salary, age, team, etc. into consideration.

So, is the difference in performance between Cozens & Pettersson equivalent to the difference in age/salary? Your guess is probably better than mine.

I just hope that Dubas is looking into some impact players like that, that can help take some of the pressure off of Sid & Geno going forward. I'm down for some more Tomasino & Lizotte types, but I think we need at least one guy that moves the needle on a regular basis.

If you are talking about building around someone, I'd take Cozens almost every time, simply because he is 2 years younger.

I also would not get too attached to any prospect we have in our system, and potentially any prospect we draft in the next 2 years. The chances of the team drafting the right pieces and putting everything together on the first try are pretty low. Some of these guys, if we were to go out and get them, really wouldn't be for building around, but rather, to acquire the pieces to build around.

I don't think there is a single player in our system right now that we absolutely must keep and build around. Quite frankly, I don't think we have an A-level guy in our system. We have some solid B-level guys, but, there are no forwards that are essentially top 6 forwards. There are no d-men in our system that are guaranteed top pairing guys.

So, we can try for a quick rebuild on the fly, but some of that may be acquiring young guys with good upside and potential, and eventually flipping them for high picks or other players young players a few years down the road.

Murasov and Blomqvist and McGroarty are as close as they've got for A level guys. Not sure you'd want to build around a goalie though.

[FLPensFan]

I think that trade is right on par with what he should get. The issue isn't the trade it's that Pettesson won't be in his prime when the Penguins are ready to compete again. I think Pettersson (D), Rakell, 2nd should be at least 4 assets under the age of 25. Right now, just get quantity and if at the end of the they get a bunch of 2nd/3rd line guys, maybe someone overachieves to the 1st line (ie Jake/Rust) then they're 1 top 5 pick away from contention.

An Elias Pettersson trade implies the Penguins have most of the other pieces in place and he might jump start them into a 1st round exit and lower draft pick. I'd say right now, the Penguins have about about 10 players who could help in a rebuild (McGroarty, Howe, Ponomarev, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, Brunicke, Belliveau, Pieniniemi, Blomqvist, Murashov). Obviously all won't make it, which makes it even worse of a list.

I agree 100%. If we can get someone like Dylan Cozens for less, and is more in line with the other young players we have, why overpay and give up all those assets for E. Pettersson?

I'm down for either of those guys as an option.

I don't know how accurate either of our proposals are for E. Pettersson and Cozens, but they're not all that far apart value wise.

To Van: M. Pettersson, Rakell (with $1M-$2M retained), 2nd, picks/prospects to even things out
To Pit: E. Petterson, picks/prospects to even things out

To Buf: Rickard Rakell, Noel Acciari (cap purposes), Anthony Beauvillier (cap purposes), Ville Koivunen, 2026 2nd (STL)
To Pit: Dylan Cozens and Jason Zucker (50% retained)

Both have Rakell & a 2nd going out. Difference is Rakell's retention and Pettersson vs Acciari, Beauvillier, & Koivunen. I would say that Pettersson and retention is the higher value than those 3, but I do think that Beau and Koivunen have some/decent value.

Coming back with Cozens is Zucker. To me, Zucker may have value to a playoff team, but not with the Pens. Forget the cap hit and his age, it's just adding another vet to block an opportunity for the youth. So, if we're taking Zucker back, to me, it's because we have to, not because we want to. I don't know it if evens out the difference in Petterson going out, but those two packages aren't all that far apart in my eyes.

Now, Cozens is 3 years younger and $4.5M cheaper, so there is definitely value in that. I haven't seen enough of either of them to know how they stack up taking things like salary, age, team, etc. into consideration.

So, is the difference in performance between Cozens & Pettersson equivalent to the difference in age/salary? Your guess is probably better than mine.

I just hope that Dubas is looking into some impact players like that, that can help take some of the pressure off of Sid & Geno going forward. I'm down for some more Tomasino & Lizotte types, but I think we need at least one guy that moves the needle on a regular basis.

If you are talking about building around someone, I'd take Cozens almost every time, simply because he is 2 years younger.

I also would not get too attached to any prospect we have in our system, and potentially any prospect we draft in the next 2 years. The chances of the team drafting the right pieces and putting everything together on the first try are pretty low. Some of these guys, if we were to go out and get them, really wouldn't be for building around, but rather, to acquire the pieces to build around.

I don't think there is a single player in our system right now that we absolutely must keep and build around. Quite frankly, I don't think we have an A-level guy in our system. We have some solid B-level guys, but, there are no forwards that are essentially top 6 forwards. There are no d-men in our system that are guaranteed top pairing guys.

So, we can try for a quick rebuild on the fly, but some of that may be acquiring young guys with good upside and potential, and eventually flipping them for high picks or other players young players a few years down the road.

Murasov and Blomqvist and McGroarty are as close as they've got for A level guys. Not sure you'd want to build around a goalie though.

I think McGroarty's top end is a Bryan Rust/Hornqvist type of guy. Ceiling for me is a 25 goal, 50 point player. But he reminds me more of Rick Tocchet...a lot of garbage type goals from just being around the net, but that isn't the only way he'll score. I would agree he is our best prospect...high B or low A level type.

Need to see more from Murashov and Blomqvist. They are good and have some promise, but also both have some holes to their game that they will need to improve upon.

I'd throw Brunicke in that mix as well. I've seen a few reports that, based on what he did this summer and the start he got in Juniors, he likely should have been a late 1st round pick.

[largegarlic]

It's time to make a move Dubas....

That trade seems pretty weird to me from Colorado's perspective. I know Rantanen is a UFA-to-be, and I read that Colorado didn't feel like they were close on a new contract, but when has a team that is (presumably) a legit contender traded a legit star player like this leading up to the deadline? I know Necas is having a good year, but I'm not sold that this is sustainable for him, and he seems at least 1 tier down from Rantanen.

I appreciate Carolina's boldness, though. Trading for Guentzel last year to really go for it; he walks, and they're back at it this year adding another top-tier offensive talent to go all in.