2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

[Cow_Master66]

Genuinely curious, what's the fire drill on people wanting Neito/Accari benched? They are hopefully going to be able to move them before the deadline, and even though the return will be nothing, it will be something. Is the sense of urgency because there's some holding out hope this team can make a run? This team is making a push for a top 4 pick, let them keep doing what they are doing....

[ahawk9]

I'll say that my issue is that it's a lost season - we all see that - so why not try out some WBS guys for a few games here and there? Get them some experience and see who might be able to stick now or down the road. I just see Nieto as a piece who doesn't help now or later. They'll obviously let him walk at the end of the season but at this juncture, I don't see the need to have him in the lineup every game. That's all I'm saying (whining about). Acciari is fine and I think they'll be able to deal him at next year's deadline since he still has one year left on his contract.

[FLPensFan]

Genuinely curious, what's the fire drill on people wanting Neito/Accari benched? They are hopefully going to be able to move them before the deadline, and even though the return will be nothing, it will be something. Is the sense of urgency because there's some holding out hope this team can make a run? This team is making a push for a top 4 pick, let them keep doing what they are doing....

Hopefully, nobody here still thinks playoffs are a possibility. That ship has sailed. I will give my input on Nieto and Acciari, and the bigger picture.

Nieto - he brings zero. Absolutely nothing to this team. Some members of the media (cough, Taylor) like to pretend like he is a defensive wizard and a PK specialist. The stats show otherwise. They bleed shots against and scoring chances against at 5v5. On the PK, Nieto has the highest GA/60 of any regular PK forward at 9.23. For perspective, 197 forward have at least 30 minutes SH TOI in the league. Nieto's GA/60 of 9.23 ranks 142nd out of 197. That's some PK wizardry alright. Nieto has zero trade value IMO. He's coming off knee surgeries 2 years in a row. He makes under 1M AAV. It cost nothing to waive him and bring up any number of WBS players who would be better served at getting NHL minutes. Poulin, Bemstrom, or Ponomarev would all be better options for a 4th line role. Matt Nieto isn't advancing the team of this year, and isn't part of the future. What is his purpose?

Acciari - I'm not as against Acciari as some may be, but, similar to Jeff Carter...he doesn't need to be in the lineup every game. It's okay to bench him in favor of getting a look at other guys. Sullivan just doesn't seem to know how to do this.

[FLPensFan]

Read DK's article calling for the trade of Erik Karlsson. Can't disagree - he has been terrible in Pittsburgh. But ...

What recent Free Agent signing or Trade has resulted in a player coming to Pittsburgh and playing equal to (or better) than their career prior to Pittsburgh?

Erik Karlsson - supersatar prior to Pittsburgh - terrible in Pittsburgh
Reilly Smith - good player prior to Pittsburgh - bad in Pittsburgh
Mikael Granlund - good player prior to Pittsburgh - did nothing in Pittsburgh in a short stint - this season has 49 pts in 58 games, back to a good player
Mike Matheson - shipped out and has played well for 3 seasons on a bad Montreal team
Jeff Petry - brought in for Matheson - played badly in Pittsburgh - shipped out
Jared McCann - I just can't even talk about this one
Even Freddie Gaudreau who is pretty good in Minnesota

Do the Pens have a problem with talent evaluation?
Are the Pens asking players to do what they historically have not been good at? If so, why are the Pens bringing those players to Pittsburgh?
Are the coaches incapable of utilizing the skills of the players brought in?

I haven't seen results from players brought to Pittsburgh so how/why is that going to change going forward?
Why bring in young players with a staff that won't play the young players?

I'm trying to find some hope going into the trade deadline but if I'm honest, I don't believe the Pens have made any positive moves since winning the Cup in 2017. Nothing has worked. Nothing.

Some of it is usage. McCann was never going to get the increased minutes in Pittsburgh that he did in Seattle. I liked McCann, I thought he had more upside, but in hindsight, he never came close to even a 20 goal season here and he didn't show much in the playoffs. I still would have kept him, but he didn't really seize the opportunity he had here.

Kind of similar for Granlund. He was a 3rd liner here, and much of his time in Nashville. He got 1st line minutes in SJ, which was never going to happen in Pittsburgh.

Matheson had a career year for Pittsburgh. 11 goals and 31 points was his career high at that time. Matheson for Petry and Poehling was just plain dumb.

The question becomes, what is in the water in Pittsburgh. To me, it seems that many players cannot play Sullivan's system. It has a strong attention to defensive detail, yet...we aren't a very good team defensively. Something is broke on a larger level, and the players that we have neutralized after bringing in via trade or UFA signing seem to prove that point.

[largegarlic]

I think one explanation could be that Dubas thinks that WBS has a good thing going, and a lot of our good prospects are playing a big role in that. I could see him thinking that playing a key role on a team towards the top of the AHL standings is better for their development than playing a minor role on a train wreck of an NHL team for ~20 games.

[Pens4Life]

Yeah, I was thinking about that few days ago.. lets hope thats the reason, why we dont see more moves up and down.

[Pitts]

I think one explanation could be that Dubas thinks that WBS has a good thing going, and a lot of our good prospects are playing a big role in that. I could see him thinking that playing a key role on a team towards the top of the AHL standings is better for their development than playing a minor role on a train wreck of an NHL team for ~20 games.

Agreed. Looks like they will get to play playoff hockey down there. Let those kids get experience.

[Crash66]

That's pretty much what Spezza said in an interview with the PPG over the weekend. He referenced his own experience in being a yo-yo between NHL and AHL in 2003 and stated he really found his game playing full time in the AHL during the lockout. If you read between the lines a little, I got the impression management doesn't want them around Sully. I know, wishful thinking but he praised MacDonald and indicated he has a future in the NHL.

[ahawk9]

That makes a lot of sense. There's a reason I'm not an NHL GM, and this might be a shining example of that. The season is lost in Pittsburgh but WBS is learning how to win and progressing nicely in team development.

[Puck-Lurker]

That's pretty much what Spezza said in an interview with the PPG over the weekend. He referenced his own experience in being a yo-yo between NHL and AHL in 2003 and stated he really found his game playing full time in the AHL during the lockout. If you read between the lines a little, I got the impression management doesn't want them around Sully. I know, wishful thinking but he praised MacDonald and indicated he has a future in the NHL.

I would be shocked if MacDonald isn't the Pens idea of a long term replacement plan for Sullivan.

From what I've seen, he seems so different and almost opposite in some ways. Which.. is often what the doctor orders when a long-standing coach leaves

[Sigwolf]

"The question becomes, what is in the water in Pittsburgh." Answer? Mike Sullivan.

"To me, it seems that many players cannot play Sullivan's system." Yet, those are the players we have. Somehow, top coaches throughout history have managed to make adjustments to "their system" to maximize the players on "their roster". That step appears to be missing.

"It has a strong attention to defensive detail, yet...we aren't a very good team defensively." Almost sounds like it just may be a Sullivan problem...

"Something is broke on a larger level, and the players that we have neutralized after bringing in via trade or UFA signing seem to prove that point." Welllll, isn't that special. Could it be... Satan, err, I mean, Sullivan?

[FLPensFan]

That's pretty much what Spezza said in an interview with the PPG over the weekend. He referenced his own experience in being a yo-yo between NHL and AHL in 2003 and stated he really found his game playing full time in the AHL during the lockout. If you read between the lines a little, I got the impression management doesn't want them around Sully. I know, wishful thinking but he praised MacDonald and indicated he has a future in the NHL.

I would be shocked if MacDonald isn't the Pens idea of a long term replacement plan for Sullivan.

From what I've seen, he seems so different and almost opposite in some ways. Which.. is often what the doctor orders when a long-standing coach leaves

The only thing I would say against this line of thinking is, I think it is good for both the player and team to get a sniff of the NHL. Give a couple of guys like Larsson and McGroarty and Koivunen a taste of the NHL for 5 games or so. It's good for them to see that the pace and the level of competition is much higher in the NHL. Sure, everyone knows this, but its much easier for them to see experiencing it first hand, rather than crushing it at the AHL level only to come up and struggle because they haven't seen that same level of competition in the NHL.

Give McGroarty a handful of games so he and the team can see how he fairs the 2nd time around. Is he really making strides, or is he making strides only against weaker competition in the AHL.
Give Koivunen a shot for some games. Can he continue to get some goals against better quality goaltending, as well as play the game away from the puck well enough.
Give Larsson a shot. He's been great in WBS. Our goaltending overall has been horrible. Yes, our defense in front of him may not be good, but again, it gives him a chance to judge the pace of play and shots coming at him at the pro level. I think Blomqvist has taken a little bit of a step back, not just because the team in front of him is bad, but because he's not seeing enough NHL action and able to adjust his game accordingly.

[EndO FanEra]

That's pretty much what Spezza said in an interview with the PPG over the weekend. He referenced his own experience in being a yo-yo between NHL and AHL in 2003 and stated he really found his game playing full time in the AHL during the lockout. If you read between the lines a little, I got the impression management doesn't want them around Sully. I know, wishful thinking but he praised MacDonald and indicated he has a future in the NHL.

I would be shocked if MacDonald isn't the Pens idea of a long term replacement plan for Sullivan.

From what I've seen, he seems so different and almost opposite in some ways. Which.. is often what the doctor orders when a long-standing coach leaves

The only thing I would say against this line of thinking is, I think it is good for both the player and team to get a sniff of the NHL. Give a couple of guys like Larsson and McGroarty and Koivunen a taste of the NHL for 5 games or so. It's good for them to see that the pace and the level of competition is much higher in the NHL. Sure, everyone knows this, but its much easier for them to see experiencing it first hand, rather than crushing it at the AHL level only to come up and struggle because they haven't seen that same level of competition in the NHL.

Give McGroarty a handful of games so he and the team can see how he fairs the 2nd time around. Is he really making strides, or is he making strides only against weaker competition in the AHL.
Give Koivunen a shot for some games. Can he continue to get some goals against better quality goaltending, as well as play the game away from the puck well enough.
Give Larsson a shot. He's been great in WBS. Our goaltending overall has been horrible. Yes, our defense in front of him may not be good, but again, it gives him a chance to judge the pace of play and shots coming at him at the pro level. I think Blomqvist has taken a little bit of a step back, not just because the team in front of him is bad, but because he's not seeing enough NHL action and able to adjust his game accordingly.

This all sounds like a solid roadmap forward to me. I don't know much about MacDonald, but it's all been pretty positive from what I have heard.

I like the idea of keeping the kids together in WBS for building chemistry together and keeping them in a winning/positive environment with the way things have progressed. Hadn't thought about the chemistry with the coach as well though, and if MacDonald is a legit candidate to take over the HC position next season, that would probably help the kids' transition to the NHL with a familiar voice behind the bench.

That said, I do agree about getting a couple of them some reps in the NHL. My guess is that it will happen at some point, probably after the trade deadline is over. I don't follow WBS enough to know their schedule (regular season & post season) to know how exactly it overlaps w/ the Pens schedule though, and I wouldn't want to mess with the things if they're on a roll or need points for a playoff run. But I would imagine there should be at least a few opportunities to give a couple of guys a look, assuming there is an open spot for them in the NHL lineup.

But, yeah, I like the thought of the kids & coaching staff building chemistry in a winning environment. Those types of things can help speed up the retool process. Use this deadline and offseason to do a clean sweep as much as you can of the dead weight contracts, rid yourself of the franchise anchor holding us back from behind the bench, and stock up on as many picks/prospects as you can. Start next season with "The Core & the Kids" and old MacDonald behind the bench. I don't know if that would produce a better record than this season, but I can guarantee you it'll be a better product to watch for us long term Pens fans. I know I'd be back to actually watching the games closely again instead of doing other things with the game on in the background.

[Pens4Life]

Lets hope that will happen ALREADY for next season.. but I fear that it could happen after 2025-2026 ends. I want a change asap!

When this season ends, Sullivan's era should end! Well it should've ended 2-3 years ago,but it is what it is now..

So best case scenario, 2025-26 we start with MacDonald as HC and bunch of youth inserted into lineup.

Of course they will struggle, but that will be expected.. team will be in retool/rebuild mode, so learning curve.. results cant be much worse than now heh..

[ahawk9]

My gut feeling (take with a brick of salt, obviously) is that the Pens and Sully mutually agree to part ways this summer (and he's snapped up immediately, taking care of any money owed), EK is traded with a little retention (maybe nets a 1st or decent prospect), Rakell and/or Rust are shipped out and either Graves or Jarry is packaged somehow that gets one of them off the books. If KD manages to jettison both, I'll be shocked but happy. That's a decent summer.

Grzelcyk and Beauvillier are probably the two who go in the next week. Maybe Edmonton goes for Ned or something since their goalie depth is lacking. I don't expect a huge trade right now, although if someone meets KD's stated bar for Rakell, that could change. EK still a possibility, too. I always forget Bunting, who I like a lot. He could be a valuable chip as a pending UFA at next year's deadline. I also wouldn't mind re-signing him and dealing him down the road. They need players of his ilk.

[EndO FanEra]

My gut feeling (take with a brick of salt, obviously) is that the Pens and Sully mutually agree to part ways this summer (and he's snapped up immediately, taking care of any money owed), EK is traded with a little retention (maybe nets a 1st or decent prospect), Rakell and/or Rust are shipped out and either Graves or Jarry is packaged somehow that gets one of them off the books. If KD manages to jettison both, I'll be shocked but happy. That's a decent summer.

Grzelcyk and Beauvillier are probably the two who go in the next week. Maybe Edmonton goes for Ned or something since their goalie depth is lacking. I don't expect a huge trade right now, although if someone meets KD's stated bar for Rakell, that could change. EK still a possibility, too. I always forget Bunting, who I like a lot. He could be a valuable chip as a pending UFA at next year's deadline. I also wouldn't mind re-signing him and dealing him down the road. They need players of his ilk.

That is pretty much what my gut feeling is as well. I'm a lot less sure about Rust getting traded than the rest though. I think it would have to be the right set of circumstances for a deal to come to fruition, but it very well could happen.

I like Bunting's style and wouldn't mind keeping him at a reasonable price. It'll likely depend on how the roster shakes out after all of the turnover, whether or not we have room or a need for him. Or, if someone comes along with a pretty decent offer for him, I'd have no issues trading him away either.

I just hope there's a significant move or two at the deadline, and not just a Beau/Gryz trade.

[EndO FanEra]

I have no idea how legit the website or topic is, but there's an article on habsfanatics.com about a quote from Andy Strickland:

"Strickland says Brady Tkachuk's departure from Ottawa is inevitable, and he believes he will try to team up with Matthew Tkachuk."

- PuckEmpire

It's about as likely as Sid going to Colorado, but I think I would be willing to pony up a nice chunk of capital if there was a realistic opportunity to bring him to the Pens.

One of the things I hope that changes with Sully's departure is how soft and easy to play against these Pens teams have been. I'm tired of seeing our guys get the crap beat out of them game in and game out with nobody standing up for the stars. For once, it would be nice to be the initiator and not have to turn the cheek all of the time. "Chipping bodies" doesn't cut it. "Collective team toughness" sounds great and all, but most of the time that is just guys standing up for themselves because they have no other choice. I often see Pens players let up on opportunities to lay into guys or throw a really big hit. I sometimes wonder if they just don't want to stir up physical play because they know we can't handle any retaliation that might come along with it.

Bringing in a guy like Tkachuk would certainly help with having that type of attitude to build around.

[ahawk9]

"I'm a lot less sure about Rust getting traded than the rest though."

Agreed. He may be one of the vets KD is referring to when he talks about keeping guys around for their experience to help guide the young players. I'd be fine with that. I mean, he could fetch something nice but if he stays, I won't be upset. Rakell, another guy I like a lot, should be traded simply because his value will never be higher. If not the deadline, then I'm fairly certain it'll be this summer.

[maopens]

"One of the things I hope that changes with Sully's departure is how soft and easy to play against these Pens teams have been. I'm tired of seeing our guys get the crap beat out of them game in and game out with nobody standing up for the stars. For once, it would be nice to be the initiator and not have to turn the cheek all of the time."

This from EndO above.

Even when successful way, way back in 2016 and 2017, the Pens were small, fast and no physicality at all. Seems they have been built that way ever since but without the same levels of speed. Small works when the opponent can't catch your speed to hit you. But this team doesn't have the speed to match their small size so they just get beat up endlessly.

Sullivan didn't have a problem with the physicality of Team USA in the 4 Nations. If he did, he certainly had no ability to stop it. And it worked for Team USA - they hit and hit often, and it was effective. On the other hand, the Pens rosters have consisted largely of guys who avoid the physical game (no matter their size) and are certainly encouraged to not be physical. It's maddening.

Early in Sid's career, the Pens had guys on the roster who would hit and hurt you if you got out of line with Sid and Geno. When was the last time we had a guy that any other team would fear? I don't even mean the likes of MacIntyre or Godard, but even a Brooks Orpik type of hitter? Kunitz would hit. Matt Cooke would hit even though at times he crossed some lines. I guess my point is, over time this roster got softer and smaller, softer and slower.

That combination shows on the ice and in the standings.

[Victor]

Softer, smaller, slower, and... sully'd.

[FLPensFan]

"One of the things I hope that changes with Sully's departure is how soft and easy to play against these Pens teams have been. I'm tired of seeing our guys get the crap beat out of them game in and game out with nobody standing up for the stars. For once, it would be nice to be the initiator and not have to turn the cheek all of the time."

Early in Sid's career, the Pens had guys on the roster who would hit and hurt you if you got out of line with Sid and Geno. When was the last time we had a guy that any other team would fear? I don't even mean the likes of MacIntyre or Godard, but even a Brooks Orpik type of hitter? Kunitz would hit. Matt Cooke would hit even though at times he crossed some lines. I guess my point is, over time this roster got softer and smaller, softer and slower.

That combination shows on the ice and in the standings.

This is exactly was PK Subban was saying the other night. This team is soft up front and soft on the backend. There's no pushback.

I always remember what Tyler Kennedy said a few years ago on Twitter. Not sure I would consider Kennedy a "tough guy," but I guess because he played on a line with Cooke...he said he and Cooke new going into a game if a team was "soft," and that they could walk all over them, rough guys up, with almost no fear of any type of retribution. He said the Red Wings were like this after their dynasty ended. Teams know the roster makeup of teams and which ones they can take liberties with.

As I've been preaching for a few years...we don't need to go full on heavy. Like you say above, we don't need a Godard, Laroque, Reaves type. But we need guys that are bigger and play a tougher game. I think if there's any chance Brady Tkachuk leaves OTT, it is ONLY to go play with his brother. But, there are guys out there that could be brought in to help. Jack McBain is a guy I've been wanting to go after for a few years. He's not a superstar. He's a 3rd line type of guy, but he plays all 3 forward positions, is 6'3" maybe 205, plays a good two-way game, and over the last 3 seasons, he's 7th overall in hits with 707. He's not a big fighter but he will absolutely drop the gloves if needed.

The other thing that goes hand in hand with these bigger, physical guys...they typically go to the net. When people wonder why this team has become such a perimeter shooting team...look no further than the type of players we have.

[Cow_Master66]

Some of yinz seem overly confident that Sully isn't gonna be back next year. I'm sure it's wishful thinking, but I'd give it pretty good odds that he returns.

[100565]

I think size matters even more during playoffs. This team ain’t built for playoff hockey (but not an issue recently)

It is perplexing. An aging core with soff team seems to be staying healthier.

[KG]

Some of yinz seem overly confident that Sully isn't gonna be back next year. I'm sure it's wishful thinking, but I'd give it pretty good odds that he returns.

I'm hoping that the Rangers and Bruins come calling. I could see Sully jumping at either opportunity. Original 6 teams, big markets. Get's to coach McAvoy his son-in-law etc.

[KG]

Grzelcyk is in the lineup tonight. Good news.