Trade: Bunting, 4th for Novak, Schenn

[Pitts]

Dumoulin just got traded for a 2nd and a prospect. Have to think KD is closely monitoring the Schenn market.

I really do not think Schenn is getting flipped. But, who knows?

[Victor]

[FLPensFan]

Some thoughts and whispers/comments from me and around the interwebs:

--The overall thought was that Dubas really liked Novak. They've targeted him for over a year. He has good underlying numbers, he has good speed, and he is a career 15% shooter. In terms of straight Bunting for Novak...they shaved 1M off the cap, they added a player with an extra year of term, and he is several years younger.

--My concern is, this is now the THIRD player we've taken from Nashville to try and squeeze more out of them. It's worked to date with Tomasino...but let's see how he finishes the year, and if he can keep up the same pace next year. That has been the issue with Tomasino, game to game and/or year to year consistency. Glass has great analytics but can't finish a paint by numbers. Analyst think Novak has the ability to put up 50-60 points, but he hasn't done it yet.

--Schenn is an upgrade over Desharnais. Schenn has the most total hits by any defenseman since 2008. If Dubas doesn't plan to flip him, my thinking is that Dubas has the groundwork set for a Karlsson trade this summer, and the thought process is for Brunicke to come in next season. They like Schenn's leadership.

--DK site has doubled down that Rakell doesn't get moved. Both DK and Taylor say it is hard to envision Dubas trading both of his top 6 LWs away

[Victor]

Some thoughts and whispers/comments from me and around the interwebs:

--The overall thought was that Dubas really liked Novak. They've targeted him for over a year. He has good underlying numbers, he has good speed, and he is a career 15% shooter. In terms of straight Bunting for Novak...they shaved 1M off the cap, they added a player with an extra year of term, and he is several years younger.

--My concern is, this is now the THIRD player we've taken from Nashville to try and squeeze more out of them. It's worked to date with Tomasino...but let's see how he finishes the year, and if he can keep up the same pace next year. That has been the issue with Tomasino, game to game and/or year to year consistency. Glass has great analytics but can't finish a paint by numbers. Analyst think Novak has the ability to put up 50-60 points, but he hasn't done it yet.

--Schenn is an upgrade over Desharnais. Schenn has the most total hits by any defenseman since 2008. If Dubas doesn't plan to flip him, my thinking is that Dubas has the groundwork set for a Karlsson trade this summer, and the thought process is for Brunicke to come in next season. They like Schenn's leadership.

--DK site has doubled down that Rakell doesn't get moved. Both DK and Taylor say it is hard to envision Dubas trading both of his top 6 LWs away

Not trading Rakell with the latest deals in mind would certainly feel like a missed oportunity to acquire more assets while his value is still at peak.

[Antonio]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a decade of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

[Tico Rick]

Some thoughts and whispers/comments from me and around the interwebs:

--DK site has doubled down that Rakell doesn't get moved. Both DK and Taylor say it is hard to envision Dubas trading both of his top 6 LWs away

I disagree with DK here. If they were to trade Rakell, they could move Malkin to Sid's wing and plug Novak in as their number two center, though, admittedly, this would be risky. And that's assuming that Rakell and/or Karlsson would not net them a top six forward.

[pens_CT]

Some thoughts and whispers/comments from me and around the interwebs:

--DK site has doubled down that Rakell doesn't get moved. Both DK and Taylor say it is hard to envision Dubas trading both of his top 6 LWs away

I disagree with DK here. If they were to trade Rakell, they could move Malkin to Sid's wing and plug Novak in as their number two center, though, admittedly, this would be risky. And that's assuming that Rakell and/or Karlsson would not net them a top six forward.

Novak isn't a 2C period. If they move Rakell it's because they're getting a prospect who is top six capable and close to NHL ready. I doubt Dubas can get this since most teams just want to give away picks.

[Pens4Life]

@Antonio

AMEN to that

[dark_forces]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a deace of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

I honestly think that people overrate Bunting's value. He's going to be 30 soon, has been hurt off and on, and hasn't played as well as he had last year when he was first acquired. Recently, he also bombed in Carolina.
I think the return is pretty good considering Bunting likely wouldn't have been resigned anayway (next season) and likely wouldn't be around coming out of a rebuild. Centers with skill have a higher value than middle-six wingers. Novak is younger and cost controlled longer. Remember, on a good team, Bunting is no better than a 3rd liner. I also imagine we'll recoup the 4th round pick we gave away with upcoming trades.

[BlackNGold4Life]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a deace of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

I honestly think that people overrate Bunting's value. He's going to be 30 soon, has been hurt off and on, and hasn't played as well as he had last year when he was first acquired. Recently, he also bombed in Carolina.
I think the return is pretty good considering Bunting likely wouldn't have been resigned anayway (next season) and likely wouldn't be around coming out of a rebuild. Centers with skill have a higher value than middle-six wingers. Novak is younger and cost controlled longer. Remember, on a good team, Bunting is no better than a 3rd liner. I also imagine we'll recoup the 4th round pick we gave away with upcoming trades.

We did essentially wirh the 5th we got for the Vinnie trade same day.

Most die hard fans agree about the coaching and system changes as well as the misses in free agency and contracts to Jary and Graves. Having said that, not one organization is void of these issues. Also, as it relates to this trade. A wide and mass majority see this as a major win for us and quite frankly are calling Trotz out for this move. Nashville fans hate it.

We all have our journeys and emotional ties to this team - but what I typically see from those who are not critical than others is plausible alternatives or suggestions on what they would have done differently. Not in theory but reality

[Daniel]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a deace of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

I honestly think that people overrate Bunting's value. He's going to be 30 soon, has been hurt off and on, and hasn't played as well as he had last year when he was first acquired. Recently, he also bombed in Carolina.
I think the return is pretty good considering Bunting likely wouldn't have been resigned anayway (next season) and likely wouldn't be around coming out of a rebuild. Centers with skill have a higher value than middle-six wingers. Novak is younger and cost controlled longer. Remember, on a good team, Bunting is no better than a 3rd liner. I also imagine we'll recoup the 4th round pick we gave away with upcoming trades.

It's one of those trades where on it's own it is worse than the sum of all the rest of the trades. It doesn't make sense to get a 35 year old defensemen for a 4th round pick. It doesn't make sense to get a 3C that can't win faceoffs for Bunting. At the end of the day it's about getting the most young assets they can so we'll see what happens.

[Toke]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a decade of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

Well done......I really can't think of anything else to add to this as it has perfectly captured my attitude towards this team now. Sadly......

[Daniel]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a deace of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

I honestly think that people overrate Bunting's value. He's going to be 30 soon, has been hurt off and on, and hasn't played as well as he had last year when he was first acquired. Recently, he also bombed in Carolina.
I think the return is pretty good considering Bunting likely wouldn't have been resigned anayway (next season) and likely wouldn't be around coming out of a rebuild. Centers with skill have a higher value than middle-six wingers. Novak is younger and cost controlled longer. Remember, on a good team, Bunting is no better than a 3rd liner. I also imagine we'll recoup the 4th round pick we gave away with upcoming trades.

We did essentially wirh the 5th we got for the Vinnie trade same day.

Most die hard fans agree about the coaching and system changes as well as the misses in free agency and contracts to Jary and Graves. Having said that, not one organization is void of these issues. Also, as it relates to this trade. A wide and mass majority see this as a major win for us and quite frankly are calling Trotz out for this move. Nashville fans hate it.

We all have our journeys and emotional ties to this team - but what I typically see from those who are not critical than others is plausible alternatives or suggestions on what they would have done differently. Not in theory but reality

Through the years we've discussed many plausible alternatives. I've brought up the fact that training camp has 23 NHL contracts and a full team that promotes no competition. No need for guys like ERod, Jankowski, Heinen in roles that a WBS kid can take and do at least as well. FLPenFan has laid out many trades other teams made or UFAs on other teams the Penguins could realistically have gotten. Victor has for years called for Sullivans removal. Any one of those scenarios could have kept the window open longer. The issue isn't today, the window would be winding down or closed by now no matter what. The issue is the almost decade of no playoff series wins with a coach that they'll seemingly attempt a rebuild with.

Not to mention a lot of have been on this board for 20-25 years so we are too old for this crap and might not live long enough for a rebuild.

[BlackNGold4Life]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a deace of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

I honestly think that people overrate Bunting's value. He's going to be 30 soon, has been hurt off and on, and hasn't played as well as he had last year when he was first acquired. Recently, he also bombed in Carolina.
I think the return is pretty good considering Bunting likely wouldn't have been resigned anayway (next season) and likely wouldn't be around coming out of a rebuild. Centers with skill have a higher value than middle-six wingers. Novak is younger and cost controlled longer. Remember, on a good team, Bunting is no better than a 3rd liner. I also imagine we'll recoup the 4th round pick we gave away with upcoming trades.

It's one of those trades where on it's own it is worse than the sum of all the rest of the trades. It doesn't make sense to get a 35 year old defensemen for a 4th round pick. It doesn't make sense to get a 3C that can't win faceoffs for Bunting. At the end of the day it's about getting the most young assets they can so we'll see what happens.

You’re obviously entitled to your opinion - but I’d tell you that general opinion of Novak vs Bunting is that Novak is the better player already - has more upside - is younger and cost less.


As far as Schenn value. A 4th is more than fair value as most would be of the opinion he’s worth more like a 3rd or 2nd to a contending team - if we retain some salary.


Agreed him at 35 doesn’t do anything for us in the future - outside of their belief he can help mentor some of our younger players and be serviceable for a year.


NSH probably needed us to take that contract as Bunting cost more the Novak and so here we are.

This is more than reasonable assets management IMO, as we now have a player in Novak that if he plays to par willl be even more valuable as an asset then a declining older Bunting.

[Daniel]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a deace of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

I honestly think that people overrate Bunting's value. He's going to be 30 soon, has been hurt off and on, and hasn't played as well as he had last year when he was first acquired. Recently, he also bombed in Carolina.
I think the return is pretty good considering Bunting likely wouldn't have been resigned anayway (next season) and likely wouldn't be around coming out of a rebuild. Centers with skill have a higher value than middle-six wingers. Novak is younger and cost controlled longer. Remember, on a good team, Bunting is no better than a 3rd liner. I also imagine we'll recoup the 4th round pick we gave away with upcoming trades.

It's one of those trades where on it's own it is worse than the sum of all the rest of the trades. It doesn't make sense to get a 35 year old defensemen for a 4th round pick. It doesn't make sense to get a 3C that can't win faceoffs for Bunting. At the end of the day it's about getting the most young assets they can so we'll see what happens.

You’re obviously entitled to your opinion - but I’d tell you that general opinion of Novak vs Bunting is that Novak is the better player already - has more upside - is younger and cost less.


As far as Schenn value. A 4th is more than fair value as most would be of the opinion he’s worth more like a 3rd or 2nd to a contending team - if we retain some salary.


Agreed him at 35 doesn’t do anything for us in the future - outside of their belief he can help mentor some of our younger players and be serviceable for a year.


NSH probably needed us to take that contract as Bunting cost more the Novak and so here we are.

This is more than reasonable assets management IMO, as we now have a player in Novak that if he plays to par willl be even more valuable as an asset then a declining older Bunting.

I think the problem I have is that this is more of a playoff team trade than a non playoff team trade, ya know? Novak is almost 28 so no longer a prospect. I don't really hate the trade as much as just wondering why the trade was made rather than just Bunting for a pick or any younger player (assuming KD can get that). If Novak was about 5 years younger, awesome trade for a team about to rebuild. That being said, he could end up being one of those 3C gritty vets when the Penguins are ready to compete and that would be well worth it.

[BlackNGold4Life]

Well, if all Dubas is capable of getting is Bunting and a 4th for Schenn and Novak...I don't want him trading Rakell. Honestly, whatever. A die hard fan for almost 40 years who has traveled across the country several times just to watch games in Pittsburgh, has been to other cities several times to watch the team, kept Center Ice for years to watch only Pens games, has 7 signed pucks from 7 straight charity bags on his mantle, etc etc etc...and I just barely care anymore. This organization seems like it is more and more of a dumpster fire every day, especially since FSG took over. Until you fire Sullivan, which any other rational organization in the history of the league would have done years ago....I just don't really care anymore and I hate that. I literally pretty much only watch or check scores now for Crosby. Nothing else.

The Bunting trade was pretty trash to me, but I also just don't care either I realize. If you had brought in young talent or draft picks or pulled off a steal...so what? As long as this team seems committed to going in the exact same direction it has been for a decade, I just can't muster any interest. I don't want to watch exciting new players, or young high quality draft picks, or any other possibly exciting new direction be ruined and spoiled by the fact that you have the same stale, overrated, **** running the show in the same way. I know he is a top coach or whatever...I mean, I know that isn't by any rational metric...3 straight years of missed playoffs, horrendous offense, defense, penalty killing etc, half a deace of pathetic first round exits before that, etc etc...so he's a top coach by every standard except actual performance but hey...let us keep at the same nonsense. Can't expect fans to stay committed to giving over their hard earned money and time if the organization does not care about anything but milking their nostalgia.

I am over KD. I completely admit to being excited when we got him, thinking the hype was justified and that he would bring in real change to the organization. I was completely and totally wrong, I firmly believe he is and was an overhyped mediocre talent who either has no balls to make real changes, or no vision to see what actually needs to be changed. Either way, I am totally disinterested in him as a GM and accept I was totally wrong about him being a positive acquisition. It has been long enough now...I have done enough "well, let us see after X" trade/signing/event/draft/whatever moment to judge him. He has failed to impress more often than not now several times, and the things he HAS done that I think COULD have been positive and impressive, like the EK acquisition, were ruined completely by the refusal/inability to have the vision and stones to make the real changes like ditching King Moron and his crew behind the bench. Hardly the supposed transformative visionary leader that this organization was signing.

I honestly think that people overrate Bunting's value. He's going to be 30 soon, has been hurt off and on, and hasn't played as well as he had last year when he was first acquired. Recently, he also bombed in Carolina.
I think the return is pretty good considering Bunting likely wouldn't have been resigned anayway (next season) and likely wouldn't be around coming out of a rebuild. Centers with skill have a higher value than middle-six wingers. Novak is younger and cost controlled longer. Remember, on a good team, Bunting is no better than a 3rd liner. I also imagine we'll recoup the 4th round pick we gave away with upcoming trades.

It's one of those trades where on it's own it is worse than the sum of all the rest of the trades. It doesn't make sense to get a 35 year old defensemen for a 4th round pick. It doesn't make sense to get a 3C that can't win faceoffs for Bunting. At the end of the day it's about getting the most young assets they can so we'll see what happens.

You’re obviously entitled to your opinion - but I’d tell you that general opinion of Novak vs Bunting is that Novak is the better player already - has more upside - is younger and cost less.


As far as Schenn value. A 4th is more than fair value as most would be of the opinion he’s worth more like a 3rd or 2nd to a contending team - if we retain some salary.


Agreed him at 35 doesn’t do anything for us in the future - outside of their belief he can help mentor some of our younger players and be serviceable for a year.


NSH probably needed us to take that contract as Bunting cost more the Novak and so here we are.

This is more than reasonable assets management IMO, as we now have a player in Novak that if he plays to par willl be even more valuable as an asset then a declining older Bunting.

I think the problem I have is that this is more of a playoff team trade than a non playoff team trade, ya know? Novak is almost 28 so no longer a prospect. I don't really hate the trade as much as just wondering why the trade was made rather than just Bunting for a pick or any younger player (assuming KD can get that). If Novak was about 5 years younger, awesome trade for a team about to rebuild. That being said, he could end up being one of those 3C gritty vets when the Penguins are ready to compete and that would be well worth it.

That I agree with completely. Isolated - yes - a 2nd and or a prospect for Bunting would be better. However that’s assuming there was a market for him in that vain and we need to consider that we can’t ice a team of 80% under 24 year olds.

And agreed on alot of what could have a should have been - in regards to the direction of the team.

To me, the only non excusable think KD has done - is not firing our coaching staff and developing a new culture. At least on the surface as we don’t know how much of that is him having to appease other people like ownership, Sid, etc.


Everything else, even the bad signings - can be somewhat excused. And there’s also been some good - and to his credit at least for the past year or so he’s stuck to the plan he laid out

[Daniel]

I honestly think that people overrate Bunting's value. He's going to be 30 soon, has been hurt off and on, and hasn't played as well as he had last year when he was first acquired. Recently, he also bombed in Carolina.
I think the return is pretty good considering Bunting likely wouldn't have been resigned anayway (next season) and likely wouldn't be around coming out of a rebuild. Centers with skill have a higher value than middle-six wingers. Novak is younger and cost controlled longer. Remember, on a good team, Bunting is no better than a 3rd liner. I also imagine we'll recoup the 4th round pick we gave away with upcoming trades.

It's one of those trades where on it's own it is worse than the sum of all the rest of the trades. It doesn't make sense to get a 35 year old defensemen for a 4th round pick. It doesn't make sense to get a 3C that can't win faceoffs for Bunting. At the end of the day it's about getting the most young assets they can so we'll see what happens.

You’re obviously entitled to your opinion - but I’d tell you that general opinion of Novak vs Bunting is that Novak is the better player already - has more upside - is younger and cost less.


As far as Schenn value. A 4th is more than fair value as most would be of the opinion he’s worth more like a 3rd or 2nd to a contending team - if we retain some salary.


Agreed him at 35 doesn’t do anything for us in the future - outside of their belief he can help mentor some of our younger players and be serviceable for a year.


NSH probably needed us to take that contract as Bunting cost more the Novak and so here we are.

This is more than reasonable assets management IMO, as we now have a player in Novak that if he plays to par willl be even more valuable as an asset then a declining older Bunting.

I think the problem I have is that this is more of a playoff team trade than a non playoff team trade, ya know? Novak is almost 28 so no longer a prospect. I don't really hate the trade as much as just wondering why the trade was made rather than just Bunting for a pick or any younger player (assuming KD can get that). If Novak was about 5 years younger, awesome trade for a team about to rebuild. That being said, he could end up being one of those 3C gritty vets when the Penguins are ready to compete and that would be well worth it.

That I agree with completely. Isolated - yes - a 2nd and or a prospect for Bunting would be better. However that’s assuming there was a market for him in that vain and we need to consider that we can’t ice a team of 80% under 24 year olds.

And agreed on alot of what could have a should have been - in regards to the direction of the team.

To me, the only non excusable think KD has done - is not firing our coaching staff and developing a new culture. At least on the surface as we don’t know how much of that is him having to appease other people like ownership, Sid, etc.


Everything else, even the bad signings - can be somewhat excused. And there’s also been some good - and to his credit at least for the past year or so he’s stuck to the plan he laid out

I think the Jarry contract was necessary, what were the other options and who would have thought Graves would have played his way to the 3rd pairing. Sometimes UFAs regress after a bad contract, what can you do about it.

I'm with you on the Sullivan thing and hope that gets fixed soon. I will give him leeway on that though, after watching how WBS has played this year. The plan might be to run out Sullivan's contract while giving MacDonald 1-2 years in the AHL. He's the best coach they've had for years.

[lemieuxReturns]

Trotz was not very kind when talking about Novak after the trade:

“When he was a fourth-line, league-minimum guy and scoring while getting some sheltered minutes, that fit him just fine,” Trotz told reporters. “When you move up the lineup, it’s harder to find your space and be productive. If you want to move up the lineup and get paid more, there’s more responsibility.

“There’s a reason that guys get the higher salaries because most nights, they’re getting the harder matchups, and they’re expected to produce.”

Before detailing the trade negotiations, Trotz characterized his trade deadline strategy simply, “I’m just sort of cleaning the porch, if you will. Moving forward.”




These kind of comments can either light a fire under a player or bury them. Let’s hope Novak comes in with the a prove him wrong attitude.

[KG]

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports ... 738803007/

Original deal was Novak for Bunting straight up, but KD wanted more. That's where Schenn came in. Good job by KD holding out for Schenn, he will bring assets back eventually.

Bunting for Novak is fair 1 for 1.

[DeHaven162]

I've seen a lot of people on the board starting to get antsy about Dubas' performance as GM. Imagine being a Preds fan, maybe Trotz isn't made to be a GM..

All that dough he gave out only to be a bottom team, making goofy comments about players he traded away a year after being the GM who gave that player the higher contract, and then acquiring Bunting to "upgrade the Predator's center position".

[lemieuxReturns]

The thing about Trotz is he was a player(I don’t think he made it to the NHL) and a coach and now a GM.

He definitely knows the game. If he says the kid is underperforming then he is most likely underperforming. I take that as a good. Let’s see him turn things around.

[Pruezy11881]

So the Jake trade didn't turn out too bad I'd say. The trade tree keeps growing but:

Jake Guentzel out

In
Tommy Novak
Ponomarev
Koivunen
Lucius
2nd rnd pick (Brunicke)
2nd rnd pick
4th rnd pick