Official GDT: Pens @ Panthers 3/23/25

[penscup]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

This is just crazy talk. Nobody is benching Sidney Crosby.

[Coffey Break]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

LOL what? Great way to reward your franchise icon's loyalty...

[Michael74]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

LOL what? Great way to reward your franchise icon's loyalty...

His loyalty? Tell me, when was the last time he captained our team to a playoff series win? I can tell you, he was 30, NOTHING since. When do we worry about the long term viability of the team as opposed to catering to an aging icon who hasn't won anything here for seven years? He's also a big reason Sullivan is STILL here.

[Antonio]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

No. Sorry but no. I'm firmly in the camp that this team shouldn't be winning meaningless games for it's long term health, but actively treating your second greatest player in franchise history like an adversary and aggressively making his time as miserable as possible? No. There's a big difference between making moves like trading Jake and firing Sullivan even if they players don't like it, and that includes Crosby, and reducing his ice time and forcing him to not play and play with 4th liners. That's ludicrous.

[Michael74]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

No. Sorry but no. I'm firmly in the camp that this team shouldn't be winning meaningless games for it's long term health, but actively treating your second greatest player in franchise history like an adversary and aggressively making his time as miserable as possible? No. There's a big difference between making moves like trading Jake and firing Sullivan even if they players don't like it, and that includes Crosby, and reducing his ice time and forcing him to not play and play with 4th liners. That's ludicrous.

Don't care drastic times call for drastic measures. Winning now only hurts us. They don't win games when they need to. Haven't for SEVEN years.

[Sigwolf]

So, your win tomorrow mentality entails punishing Crosby if he dares to help win a game today. Yeah, no.

True generational talents (Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby) are *extremely* rare, and this franchise has been impossibly statistically lucky in having several already, along with numerous players at darn near that level. Hell, Orr and Gretzky were never drafted anyway. Outside of that level, there are absolutely *no* guarantees in any draft pick, especially in most draft classes, this year included.

Buffalo hasn't made the playoffs since what, 2011? They've been had very early draft picks for years... how's that worked for them? Maybe they should have been tanking harder?

How about Edmonton? They've had how many number one *overall* picks since 2010... 4? The last time they managed even a division championship? 1987.

Throwing away games for a "better" draft pick is just stupid, and not a guarantee of anything. Let the players you have play to the best of their ability, and make the determination of who works well together and who doesn't.

This team needs better management and better coaching to work with the roster that they have and maximize their strengths. They don't need to be throwing away games, worsening morale and chemistry, to chase some 'better' draft pick that may or may not ever have an impact on the NHL club.

[IntangibleBeer]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

No. Sorry but no. I'm firmly in the camp that this team shouldn't be winning meaningless games for it's long term health, but actively treating your second greatest player in franchise history like an adversary and aggressively making his time as miserable as possible? No. There's a big difference between making moves like trading Jake and firing Sullivan even if they players don't like it, and that includes Crosby, and reducing his ice time and forcing him to not play and play with 4th liners. That's ludicrous.

Don't care drastic times call for drastic measures. Winning now only hurts us. They don't win games when they need to. Haven't for SEVEN years.

I’m sorry, but that’s not how you treat a great player and upright human being who has given so much to this team and city. That’s just not done.

[Michael74]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

No. Sorry but no. I'm firmly in the camp that this team shouldn't be winning meaningless games for it's long term health, but actively treating your second greatest player in franchise history like an adversary and aggressively making his time as miserable as possible? No. There's a big difference between making moves like trading Jake and firing Sullivan even if they players don't like it, and that includes Crosby, and reducing his ice time and forcing him to not play and play with 4th liners. That's ludicrous.

Don't care drastic times call for drastic measures. Winning now only hurts us. They don't win games when they need to. Haven't for SEVEN years.

I’m sorry, but that’s not how you treat a great player and upright human being who has given so much to this team and city. That’s just not done.

I understand your perspective and I'm sure the vast majority would agree with you. I'm looking at it from a perspective of ''what have you done for us lately'' as well as ''what gets us prime assets to help turn this thing around''. This team hasn't won a playoff series since 2018. We need to turn the page, period. That includes this tired coach and this aging core. If they wanna be here fine, but don't stand in the way of us making meaningful and significant changes for the next generation.

[BlackNGold4Life]

Treating Crosby that way would have a very negative ripple effect heard around the league that DOES in fact jeopardize the future.

[Michael74]

The GM is more concerned or should be more concerned about the TEAM than any individual player! Fans don't have to operate that way but GM's do. And they don't have to bow down to a guy like Crosby! If he thought that way he wouldn't have traded Jake. THIS deadline he should have traded Rakell for more 1sts, an NHLer and a prospect. Hopefully he'll correct that mistake in the summer.

I don't ever remember Mario getting this level of deference, which is a shame (because he was much much better). but it's pretty eye opening considering this team hasn't done much for SEVEN years.

Since 2018-2019 Crosby in the playoffs: 5 goals 11 assists for 16 points in 20 games and a -4. Not overly remarkable. In that time this team has lost FOUR consecutive playoff series, three of which we were favored. In the other three seasons with him playing in every game but two we've missed the playoffs (including this season). No, it's not all on him, but your best player should shoulder a fair amount of the burden there. The core collectively should at a minimum along with this god forsaken coach! And remember the coach is here because the core wants him to be here and don't want to break in a new coach!

No, I don't think at this point we owe them a damn thing!

[Pens4Life]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

thats just crazy talk indeed.. NOT gonna happen and I dont know how can you even come up with idea like that

There is just chance he himself wont play anymore once playoff chances are gone and he gets that 1 PPG avg done. But even that seems a bit unlikely..

[Antonio]

The GM is more concerned or should be more concerned about the TEAM than any individual player! Fans don't have to operate that way but GM's do. And they don't have to bow down to a guy like Crosby! If he thought that way he wouldn't have traded Jake. THIS deadline he should have traded Rakell for more 1sts, an NHLer and a prospect. Hopefully he'll correct that mistake in the summer.

I don't ever remember Mario getting this level of deference, which is a shame (because he was much much better). but it's pretty eye opening considering this team hasn't done much for SEVEN years.

Since 2018-2019 Crosby in the playoffs: 5 goals 11 assists for 16 points in 20 games and a -4. Not overly remarkable. In that time this team has lost FOUR consecutive playoff series, three of which we were favored. In the other three seasons with him playing in every game but two we've missed the playoffs (including this season). No, it's not all on him, but your best player should shoulder a fair amount of the burden there. The core collectively should at a minimum along with this god forsaken coach! And remember the coach is here because the core wants him to be here and don't want to break in a new coach!

No, I don't think at this point we owe them a damn thing!

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Pitts]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

LOL what? Great way to reward your franchise icon's loyalty...

His loyalty? Tell me, when was the last time he captained our team to a playoff series win? I can tell you, he was 30, NOTHING since. When do we worry about the long term viability of the team as opposed to catering to an aging icon who hasn't won anything here for seven years? He's also a big reason Sullivan is STILL here.

I'm sorry, but this is just crazy-talk. Crosby brought this franchise 3 - THREE - Stanley Cups. He deserves whatever he wishes until he decided he's done. Period.

And, if you do not believe Mario had the same level of input or control, I don't think you know the team history very well.

[Michael74]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

LOL what? Great way to reward your franchise icon's loyalty...

His loyalty? Tell me, when was the last time he captained our team to a playoff series win? I can tell you, he was 30, NOTHING since. When do we worry about the long term viability of the team as opposed to catering to an aging icon who hasn't won anything here for seven years? He's also a big reason Sullivan is STILL here.

I'm sorry, but this is just crazy-talk. Crosby brought this franchise 3 - THREE - Stanley Cups. He deserves whatever he wishes until he decided he's done. Period.

And, if you do not believe Mario had the same level of input or control, I don't think you know the team history very well.

I know it very well actually, which is why I made that statement.

No, what's crazy is losing year after year and not accruing high picks and prospects as a result. Not being in a position to draft the next core pieces because your coach and your aging core keep you in the land of mediocrity.

And in what I said, it's true. Look up what I said, tell me in the last seven years where I'm wrong...I'll wait.

[Gunnerfan]

They can sit veterans, Give Sid and Geno some days/games off, Reduce their ice time, double shift curtain jerkers, Play Ned instead of Jarry, have long grueling practices, jumble up the lines. IF only they had a few key injuries.

Oh wow, what a brilliant strategy. So, your grand plan is to force players to suppress their competitive instincts, run them into the ground mid-game, and physically destroy them—all of which inevitably increases injury risk. And you're actually standing by this? You're literally advocating for human beings to get hurt just so you can feel better about a few higher draft picks? Unreal. Maybe take a step back and rethink what you're actually saying.

[Michael74]

They can sit veterans, Give Sid and Geno some days/games off, Reduce their ice time, double shift curtain jerkers, Play Ned instead of Jarry, have long grueling practices, jumble up the lines. IF only they had a few key injuries.

Oh wow, what a brilliant strategy. So, your grand plan is to force players to suppress their competitive instincts, run them into the ground mid-game, and physically destroy them—all of which inevitably increases injury risk. And you're actually standing by this? You're literally advocating for human beings to get hurt just so you can feel better about a few higher draft picks? Unreal. Maybe take a step back and rethink what you're actually saying.

Where were their competitive instincts when the games mattered?

[Michael74]

The GM is more concerned or should be more concerned about the TEAM than any individual player! Fans don't have to operate that way but GM's do. And they don't have to bow down to a guy like Crosby! If he thought that way he wouldn't have traded Jake. THIS deadline he should have traded Rakell for more 1sts, an NHLer and a prospect. Hopefully he'll correct that mistake in the summer.

I don't ever remember Mario getting this level of deference, which is a shame (because he was much much better). but it's pretty eye opening considering this team hasn't done much for SEVEN years.

Since 2018-2019 Crosby in the playoffs: 5 goals 11 assists for 16 points in 20 games and a -4. Not overly remarkable. In that time this team has lost FOUR consecutive playoff series, three of which we were favored. In the other three seasons with him playing in every game but two we've missed the playoffs (including this season). No, it's not all on him, but your best player should shoulder a fair amount of the burden there. The core collectively should at a minimum along with this god forsaken coach! And remember the coach is here because the core wants him to be here and don't want to break in a new coach!

No, I don't think at this point we owe them a damn thing!

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Just because you don't like what I said doesn't mean it isn't true. It's a fact this team hasn't won a damn thing in seven years. It's a fact we were favored in three of those four playoff series. It's also a fact Crosbys numbers in that time were well off his customary level of production.

Dispute those facts if you like, good luck!

[Michael74]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

thats just crazy talk indeed.. NOT gonna happen and I dont know how can you even come up with idea like that

There is just chance he himself wont play anymore once playoff chances are gone and he gets that 1 PPG avg done. But even that seems a bit unlikely..

You seem more concerned about an individual player than the overall team.

I didn't say it was gonna happen, I know it won't because this core and this coach love mediocrity. Someone asked what could be done, I gave suggestions that would have worked.

Not trading Rakell was a mistake. That would have taken away our best scoring winger, got assets in the process and made it harder to score. Nope the only other thing that COULD happen is injury. And the core has been remarkably healthy as they're aging. Not that I wish injury on anyone I don't. But injuries can happen.

[Antonio]

Not trading Rakell. Mistake. Agreed.

Not firing and then deporting Sullivan. Mistake. Agreed.

Not treating one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game like ****, a player who has committed himself to this organization for 20 years, has brought 3 championships in that time when most teams never see a single one and at 37 is still producing like a top 5 center. Mistake. Absolutely not. Sorry but that's an insane, indefensible and unjustifiable take and it's not based in reality or common sense regardless of whatever meaningless stat you put out.

[Gunnerfan]

They can sit veterans, Give Sid and Geno some days/games off, Reduce their ice time, double shift curtain jerkers, Play Ned instead of Jarry, have long grueling practices, jumble up the lines. IF only they had a few key injuries.

Oh wow, what a brilliant strategy. So, your grand plan is to force players to suppress their competitive instincts, run them into the ground mid-game, and physically destroy them—all of which inevitably increases injury risk. And you're actually standing by this? You're literally advocating for human beings to get hurt just so you can feel better about a few higher draft picks? Unreal. Maybe take a step back and rethink what you're actually saying.

Where were there competitive instincts when the games mattered?

Where was your humanity when you wrote this garbage?

[Michael74]

They can sit veterans, Give Sid and Geno some days/games off, Reduce their ice time, double shift curtain jerkers, Play Ned instead of Jarry, have long grueling practices, jumble up the lines. IF only they had a few key injuries.

Oh wow, what a brilliant strategy. So, your grand plan is to force players to suppress their competitive instincts, run them into the ground mid-game, and physically destroy them—all of which inevitably increases injury risk. And you're actually standing by this? You're literally advocating for human beings to get hurt just so you can feel better about a few higher draft picks? Unreal. Maybe take a step back and rethink what you're actually saying.

Where were there competitive instincts when the games mattered?

Where was your humanity when you wrote this garbage?

I suppose I have none from where you sit.

I'm just curious as to why their competitiveness kicks in in garbage time, but doesn't in meaningful games.

Where was that competitive spirit against the Islanders those two playoff series, or the Habs? That's a very convenient opinion you have.

They aren't held accountable when they fall short against inferior opponents when the games actually matter, but winning games now do. I love it!

[Michael74]

Not trading Rakell. Mistake. Agreed.

Not firing and then deporting Sullivan. Mistake. Agreed.

Not treating one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game like ****, a player who has committed himself to this organization for 20 years, has brought 3 championships in that time when most teams never see a single one and at 37 is still producing like a top 5 center. Mistake. Absolutely not. Sorry but that's an insane, indefensible and unjustifiable take and it's not based in reality or common sense regardless of whatever meaningless stat you put out.

Two out of three aint bad I suppose?

It boils down to this. You're of the opinion that Sid is owed whatever torture this organization indulges us in or dishes out, because he's one of the greatest to ever play. Because he's an all time great it gives him license to keep a tired old coach around longer than they should. To actively work against a necessary rebuild by winning meaningless games at the most inopportune time. To keep his cronies around knowing they've seen better days. And I'm the opinion that enough is enough. That, There is or should be a limit.

[Coffey Break]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

LOL what? Great way to reward your franchise icon's loyalty...

His loyalty? Tell me, when was the last time he captained our team to a playoff series win? I can tell you, he was 30, NOTHING since. When do we worry about the long term viability of the team as opposed to catering to an aging icon who hasn't won anything here for seven years? He's also a big reason Sullivan is STILL here.

I can throw some stats out there too.

The Pens most recent playoff series in 2022, #87 had 10 points in 6 games. And the team was well on their way to a 1st round upset with a dominating performance up front from 59-87-17-71 until Jacob Trouba happened (knocking both Sid and Rakell out for 2 games).

And "loyalty" is not a term I loosely throw around. If there is any player in the game today that deserves whatever he wants, it's Sid. The crazy thing is 99.9% of Pens fans would be fully supportive of him asking for a trade to a playoff team. But instead, he's made a conscious decision to stay here for one more run and to bring in the next core of players. If that honestly means we draft #9 instead of #6, sign me the hell up.

[Michael74]

I don't in any way ever expect the players themselves to tank it on purpose. Certainly not a player like Crosby who just isn't wired like that and I don't blame him or fault him at all. The fault is the organization.

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

LOL what? Great way to reward your franchise icon's loyalty...

His loyalty? Tell me, when was the last time he captained our team to a playoff series win? I can tell you, he was 30, NOTHING since. When do we worry about the long term viability of the team as opposed to catering to an aging icon who hasn't won anything here for seven years? He's also a big reason Sullivan is STILL here.

I can throw some stats out there too.

The Pens most recent playoff series in 2022, #87 had 10 points in 6 games. And the team was well on their way to a 1st round upset with a dominating performance up front from 59-87-17-71 until Jacob Trouba happened (knocking both Sid and Rakell out for 2 games).

The end result was a loss though, they failed. They also lost to the Isles twice and the Habs where Sid was sub par. You're cherry picking one playoff run and I'm looking at a body of work over the most recent seven year period.

And here's the thing, I don't expect them with their core at their ages to make the playoffs. I'm resigned to their fate. But at least get a quality draft pick or prospect to start turning the page here for the future. If they don't this same pattern will repeat itself for the next couple of years and then your precious Crosby will never see the post season again! How does that help anyone?

[Coffey Break]

Then bench him or take away his linemates. Play him with IMMA and Heinen or Acciari. Reduce his ice time, give him a game off.

LOL what? Great way to reward your franchise icon's loyalty...

His loyalty? Tell me, when was the last time he captained our team to a playoff series win? I can tell you, he was 30, NOTHING since. When do we worry about the long term viability of the team as opposed to catering to an aging icon who hasn't won anything here for seven years? He's also a big reason Sullivan is STILL here.

I can throw some stats out there too.

The Pens most recent playoff series in 2022, #87 had 10 points in 6 games. And the team was well on their way to a 1st round upset with a dominating performance up front from 59-87-17-71 until Jacob Trouba happened (knocking both Sid and Rakell out for 2 games).

And "loyalty" is not a term I loosely throw around. If there is any player in the game today that deserves whatever he wants, it's Sid. The crazy thing is 99.9% of Pens fans would be fully supportive of him asking for a trade to a playoff team. But instead, he's made a conscious decision to stay here for one more run and to bring in the next core of players. If that honestly means we draft #9 instead of #6, sign me the hell up.

The end result was a loss though, they failed. They also lost to the Isles twice and the Habs where Sid was sub par. You're cherry picking one playoff run and I'm looking at a body of work over the most recent seven year period.

And here's the thing, I don't expect them with their core at their ages to make the playoffs. I'm resigned to their fate. But at least get a quality draft pick or prospect to start turning the page here for the future. If they don't this same pattern will repeat itself for the next couple of years and then your precious Crosby will never see the post season again! How does that help anyone?

I don't disagree. But there are ways to do that without relegating your franchise icon to play with 4th line ham n eggers. The fact that is even a suggested path is ludicrous to me (let alone benching him - arguably the most competitive hockey player this world has ever seen).

For example, not trading Rakell was a mistake. But I trust that if fair market value wasn't there, you don't just dump a 30G70P player. They still have a chance to do what you're suggesting in the offseason where perceived value may be higher and the salary cap even higher, while maybe even getting a quality player back that you can try on 87's wing.

Your suggestion of punishing a guy who is trying to win hockey games is asinine. No matter what type of athlete you are in whatever sport, you are hardwired to win.