The Playoff Race / The Lottery Race

[Antonio]

Tortorella has been a HC for 5 NHL teams (TB, NYR, VAN, CBJ, PHI). Who's going to hire him next? I wonder who holds the record for HC positions in the league.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him get another job. He's had actual success fairly consistently. He's won a cup, he led another team to several years of playoff appearances when they couldn't seem to even get their **** together enough to make the playoffs. He took Philly to the very end of the season battling to make the playoffs when no one thought they were going to be anything but bottom dwellers. Despite some people's dislike for his personality, he's gotten pretty quantifiable results fairly consistently across multiple different teams and organizations and states of roster competitiveness. I mean I know he's no top two or three coach in the league but he has won almost 800 games as a coach, despite not really ever coaching a team stocked with generational talent in their prime.

[Toke]

Torts will have a new job by summer.

[EndO FanEra]

I've never wanted Torts anywhere near the Pens organization, but if it guaranteed that Sully would be shipped out, I'd welcome Torts with open arms for a season or 2 and see how it goes.

[Puck-Lurker]

I've never wanted Torts anywhere near the Pens organization, but if it guaranteed that Sully would be shipped out, I'd welcome Torts with open arms for a season or 2 and see how it goes.

I'm in the same boat, pretty much.

Do not want Torts here. At all.

On a temporary basis? In here for two seasons then gone no matter what? I would see the utility in that.

That would never fly but I figure that would have SOME possible positive outcomes.

[offsides]

I am definitely NOT a Sully fan, but if we want to get higher picks shouldn't we keep him for at least another year? Look at the higher pick Torts got for the Flyers. Maybe Sully can do that for us.

[FLPensFan]

I've never wanted Torts anywhere near the Pens organization, but if it guaranteed that Sully would be shipped out, I'd welcome Torts with open arms for a season or 2 and see how it goes.

I'm in the same boat, pretty much.

Do not want Torts here. At all.

On a temporary basis? In here for two seasons then gone no matter what? I would see the utility in that.

That would never fly but I figure that would have SOME possible positive outcomes.

Torts seems like the perfect guy to for the last 2 years....but even worse than Sullivan for the future. Torts always seems to find a young guy to clash with (PLD, Laine, Roslovic come to mind recently). He would have been good the last 2 years, because unlike Sully, he's not afraid to bench a star player if they are playing up to his standards. I could see Torts benching Karlsson, Malkin, or Letang a few times over the last few years.

But now....hard pass on Torts, even if it was the only way to get rid of Sullivan. Torts had long stints with Tampa and Columbus, but short stints with Vancouver, Rangers, and now Philly.

[Antonio]

At least Torts plays the young guys enough to clash with them.

[EndO FanEra]

I am definitely NOT a Sully fan, but if we want to get higher picks shouldn't we keep him for at least another year? Look at the higher pick Torts got for the Flyers. Maybe Sully can do that for us.

I get the reasoning, but no. The team/organization is stuck in a rut and needs a fresh start. The infusion of youth should hopefully help in the coming years, but a new voice/direction/system would be a breath of fresh air. Theoretically, we could struggle just as much with a new coach (obviously a lesser one, since Sully is 2nd to maybe only Scotty Bowman in the history of NHL coaches ).

On top of that, as bad as it has been over the last few years, we're still really only one statistic away from being a (bad) playoff team. One year it's an awful PK, next year an impotent PP, this year there's the OT/Shootout losses.

I'm not saying this will happen, but what if hypothetically:
- we are able to get a Frondell/Misa/Desnoyers in the draft
- we cut some dead weight (Acciari, Graves, Heinen, Hayes)
- we manage to sign a big UFA or two with our cap space (maybe even a swing at a guy like Marner)
- Jarry gone (preferably traded, but minors and out of the way if need be) and we go with youth in goal

Marner is a bit of a pipe dream, and it'll likely take some assets & maneuvering to grab a top C in the draft. Other than that, we'd have something like this during next season:

Rakell-Sid-Rust
Tomasino-Malkin-Marner/UFA
Koivunen-Frondell-Novak
McGroarty-Lizotte-Imama
or
Rakell-Sid-Rust
Misa-Malkin-Marner/UFA
Koivunen-Novak-Tomasino
McGroarty-Lizotte-Imama

The defense will definitely need an overhaul as well, but I think that lineup would end up producing more wins/points than this 2024/2025 team.

So, as much as I like the thought of drafting high 2 years in a row, I won't be disappointed if the Pens somehow make the playoffs or end up drafting in the teens/twenties again next year. While it will suck for the rebuild, we'll at least be "in the middle on the way up" instead of "in the middle nearing the end" as we have been over the past decade.

[Michael74]

IF we don't lose tonight none of these discussion really don't matter as we won't be in a position to draft a difference maker.

Better hope Buffalo humiliates the Pens tonight. In the long run that's what needs to happen!

[EndO FanEra]

IF we don't lose tonight none of these discussion really don't matter as we won't be in a position to draft a difference maker.

Better hope Buffalo humiliates the Pens tonight. In the long run that's what needs to happen!

Don't forget to root for Seattle and Philly ( ) as well.

[FLPensFan]

After tonight's early games finish up, standings should look like this:

9th - Anaheim, 70 points, 11 games remaining
8th - Boston, 69 points, 9 games remaining
7th - Pittsburgh, 69 points, 8 games remaining
6th - Philly, 67 points, 8 games remaining
5th - Buffalo, 66 points, 11 games remaining
4th - Seattle, 66 points, 10 games remaining (about to start their next game)
3rd - Nashville, 62 points, 10 games remaining (counting game in progress as a game played; if they win, they'll move up to 64 points)

A Seattle win tonight vs Edmonton puts them back into 6th place, 1 point behind the Penguins.
Tomorrow night, Anaheim hosts the Rangers. We should be hoping for a Ducks win to further distance themselves from us.
Saturday afternoon, Buffalo and Philly play each other. With more games in hand, we'd want Buffalo to win to further catch Pittsburgh.
Saturday night, Boston plays at Detroit. Should hope for a Boston win here.
Saturday night, Seattle plays in Dallas. Should hope for a Seattle win.

Sunday, BUF plays WSH, PIT plays OTT, ANA plays TOR.

[Michael74]

DET is only up on us by three and they got a tough schedule, BOS could lose out the way their goin.

[Badamski9]

At current points %, barring lottery we select 7th and 11th. I would select best player available and pick twice. Chances of getting one top 6 player out of that are relatively even anyway. No need to pay to move up, only to draft Yakupov and end up with nothing. This way you might hit on both and get better quicker

I completely agree! Giving up a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd to move up 2-3 spots is a significant overpay and flat out dumb. We will get two quality players at the spots we pick in.

Let's say the Pens up around 7-9 and the Rangers end up 10-14 and giving us the pick. I think you're right that we'd land a solid top 6 forward, but I think that Rangers pick would be more of a 2-4 dman, not necessarily a top pairing guy. I could be wrong, but I just think they're a little harder to predict. Still, either way, that's a nice haul.

To try and put it into perspective, I think we're roughly talking about the difference between drafting a single player somewhat of the caliber of a Geno Malkin or keeping the two picks and drafting two players closer to the caliber of Staal and Maatta. I know that's a gross over-generalization, but hopefully that gets the point across. Basically, a 2C with 1C upside or a 2C/3C and solid 2-4 dman. This team could use all 3 of those, so we can't really go wrong (unless we pick the wrong players, of course).

I wouldn't be upset with either of those options, so I can see the sides of both arguments. I happen to lean towards the higher end talent on a single pick, but as has been discussed, it takes two to tango and it isn't very likely someone would trade down out of those spots without an overpay.

I get what you guys are saying, would be nice to get a game breaker. I also feel like this team needs so much that getting two top 6 players or a top 6 and top 2 D player in the first round would be helpful too.

[FLPensFan]

Seattle won 6-2. Good night for moving up in the draft.

[Michael74]

SEA plays Dallas the next two games and are still a point behind us. Boston never wins and the Wings are going in a tailspin themselves. We need to lose the next three in REG.

[john66]

Easy money on the Flyers last night. Always play the new coach.

[longtimefan]

Perhaps this was posted earlier, but this site appears to update daily. It has the odds of the Pens getting the 1st pick at 6.5% and 6.7% for the 2nd. A 13.2% chance of getting a top 2 pick. Still a longshot. But it's not the Powerball. They have the Pens with the 7th spot currently. It's based on winning %.

https://www.tankathon.com/nhl/pick_odds

[Gunnerfan]

I'm in the obvious minority here, but I love Torts. He's a hell of a character and an underrated coach. He makes me laugh with his style and his relationship with the press.

[TexasPenguins]

I'm in the obvious minority here, but I love Torts. He's a hell of a character and an underrated coach. He makes me laugh with his style and his relationship with the press.

I think he’s become more of a character and an entertainer than a coach. He may get another HC job, but don’t expect his team to do very well. And don’t expect them to do very well for any extended period if there is any early success.

[FLPensFan]

I'm in the obvious minority here, but I love Torts. He's a hell of a character and an underrated coach. He makes me laugh with his style and his relationship with the press.

I think he’s become more of a character and an entertainer than a coach. He may get another HC job, but don’t expect his team to do very well. And don’t expect them to do very well for any extended period if there is any early success.

Torts seems to be this generation's Mike Keenan. Has won the Cup, but wears out his welcome rather quickly with his brashness and sometimes questionable coaching style.

[Puck-Lurker]

I'm in the obvious minority here, but I love Torts. He's a hell of a character and an underrated coach. He makes me laugh with his style and his relationship with the press.

I think he’s become more of a character and an entertainer than a coach. He may get another HC job, but don’t expect his team to do very well. And don’t expect them to do very well for any extended period if there is any early success.

Torts seems to be this generation's Mike Keenan. Has won the Cup, but wears out his welcome rather quickly with his brashness and sometimes questionable coaching style.

Whatever else he is, he's currently a parody of an NHL coach. That isn't always a bad thing for a team; it's the players who score goals, not whoever is screaming at the top of his lungs from behind the pine. Sometimes being able to influence the personalities on your team, is enough for success, you wouldn't need to have vast knowledge about the game.

Tortorella now, strikes me as a mercenary boogieman coach, that can come in and knock over the apple cart, then is fired (out of a cannon) by the org that really wanted him. More and more, I get the impression that he fights his own team, to do things his way. There's a value to that, but only to a point and I don't think he sees it that way.

I'm sure he's a lovely guy with lots of positive things to offer society -- but as an NHL coach? Uughhhh...

[Daniel]

I'm in the obvious minority here, but I love Torts. He's a hell of a character and an underrated coach. He makes me laugh with his style and his relationship with the press.

I think he’s become more of a character and an entertainer than a coach. He may get another HC job, but don’t expect his team to do very well. And don’t expect them to do very well for any extended period if there is any early success.

Torts seems to be this generation's Mike Keenan. Has won the Cup, but wears out his welcome rather quickly with his brashness and sometimes questionable coaching style.

Whatever else he is, he's currently a parody of an NHL coach. That isn't always a bad thing for a team; it's the players who score goals, not whoever is screaming at the top of his lungs from behind the pine. Sometimes being able to influence the personalities on your team, is enough for success, you wouldn't need to have vast knowledge about the game.

Tortorella now, strikes me as a mercenary boogieman coach, that can come in and knock over the apple cart, then is fired (out of a cannon) by the org that really wanted him. More and more, I get the impression that he fights his own team, to do things his way. There's a value to that, but only to a point and I don't think he sees it that way.

I'm sure he's a lovely guy with lots of positive things to offer society -- but as an NHL coach? Uughhhh...

Someone like him is most effective with really good assistants and a good vision for how he wants the team to play. Keep away from the day to day stuff and motivate/make head coaching decisions on game day. Even with that, his schtick doesn't last with modern players.

[Puck-Lurker]

I'm in the obvious minority here, but I love Torts. He's a hell of a character and an underrated coach. He makes me laugh with his style and his relationship with the press.

I think he’s become more of a character and an entertainer than a coach. He may get another HC job, but don’t expect his team to do very well. And don’t expect them to do very well for any extended period if there is any early success.

Torts seems to be this generation's Mike Keenan. Has won the Cup, but wears out his welcome rather quickly with his brashness and sometimes questionable coaching style.

Whatever else he is, he's currently a parody of an NHL coach. That isn't always a bad thing for a team; it's the players who score goals, not whoever is screaming at the top of his lungs from behind the pine. Sometimes being able to influence the personalities on your team, is enough for success, you wouldn't need to have vast knowledge about the game.

Tortorella now, strikes me as a mercenary boogieman coach, that can come in and knock over the apple cart, then is fired (out of a cannon) by the org that really wanted him. More and more, I get the impression that he fights his own team, to do things his way. There's a value to that, but only to a point and I don't think he sees it that way.

I'm sure he's a lovely guy with lots of positive things to offer society -- but as an NHL coach? Uughhhh...

Someone like him is most effective with really good assistants and a good vision for how he wants the team to play. Keep away from the day to day stuff and motivate/make head coaching decisions on game day. Even with that, his schtick doesn't last with modern players.

Fully agreed on all counts. Very much hit the nail on the head

[Michael74]

The Ducks down 4-2 with under six minutes left comeback and beat the Rangers 5-4 in OT! The Ducks are now up on us by three points, great comeback.

[FLPensFan]

It's looking like the Penguins may have 2 chances to get knocked down into a better draft position.
--Seattle is 1 point behind with 1 game in hand.
--Philly is 2 points behind, even in games.
--Buffalo is 3 points behind, 3 games in hand.

If you are wanting a better draft pick, odds are to root for Buffalo, who happens to be the hottest team in the bottom 10 right now, 6-4 in their last 10 and on a 3 game win streak. BUF and PHI play today at 1pm. Root for the Sabres.

Seattle is a toss up right now. SEA has a tough schedule, with back to backs against DAL this weekend, plus 2 games against LA, a game against VAN, a game against STL, a game against VGK. UTA and SJ are the only "easier" games.

Also interesting, SJ has gotten hot while Chicago is ice cold. SJ 5-5 in their last 10, now only 2 points from passing Chicago to 2nd overall, and SJ has 2 games in hand. I'd still expect Shaefer-Misa to go 1-2.