Would you trade 2025 8th overall for Mason McTavish?

[FLPensFan]

I've talked consistently about top 6 centers and #1 overall d-man being the 3 hardest positions to acquire. If the Penguins finished 8th overall in the draft standings after lottery drawings, would you be willing to trade that pick to Anaheim in exchange for Mason MacTavish in return.

MacTavish turned 22 in January. 3rd overall pick in 2021. 6'1", 215lbs. He is about to complete his 3rd NHL season, all of which he has put up 40+ points. He had 17 goals in 80 games in 22-23, 19 goals in 64 games in 23-24, and 20 goals in 69 games in 24-25. He's known for his skating, shot and two-way play. He is an RFA going into this summer.

While there is on current contentious issues with the team and MacTavish, coach Greg Cronin told reporters MacTavish 2 months ago that MacTavish was a "third line guy with offensive ability." That didn't sit too well with the player.

I think MacTavish has additional upside. I don't think he'll ever be a 80-90 point player or a 1C, but he could be a very solid 2C for years to come. Someone in the other compared him to potentially being Jordan Staal.

So, knowing there is a drop off after pick #7, and that anyone picked 5-10 isn't likely to play in the NHL for 2 or more years....would you give up #8 overall for a 22 year old who already has 3 seasons under his belt?

[thehockeyguru]

I would do it for the Rangers pick

[Ohio_Pens_fan]

Any pick we have this year will not be ready for at least three years. Definitely trade.

[Daniel]

I've talked consistently about top 6 centers and #1 overall d-man being the 3 hardest positions to acquire. If the Penguins finished 8th overall in the draft standings after lottery drawings, would you be willing to trade that pick to Anaheim in exchange for Mason MacTavish in return.

MacTavish turned 22 in January. 3rd overall pick in 2021. 6'1", 215lbs. He is about to complete his 3rd NHL season, all of which he has put up 40+ points. He had 17 goals in 80 games in 22-23, 19 goals in 64 games in 23-24, and 20 goals in 69 games in 24-25. He's known for his skating, shot and two-way play. He is an RFA going into this summer.

While there is on current contentious issues with the team and MacTavish, coach Greg Cronin told reporters MacTavish 2 months ago that MacTavish was a "third line guy with offensive ability." That didn't sit too well with the player.

I think MacTavish has additional upside. I don't think he'll ever be a 80-90 point player or a 1C, but he could be a very solid 2C for years to come. Someone in the other compared him to potentially being Jordan Staal.

So, knowing there is a drop off after pick #7, and that anyone picked 5-10 isn't likely to play in the NHL for 2 or more years....would you give up #8 overall for a 22 year old who already has 3 seasons under his belt?

Depends on who is available. If Desnoyers or Frondell are available, no. If O'Brien or McQueen rise up to be valuable, no. If all 4 are gone, or O'Brien/McQueen aren't any better, I'd consider it. I know those 4 are projects and McTavish might be a legit stud, but he's 4 years older. If the players are close in skill, I'd rather than younger player. Not sure how long the rebuild would take and 4 more years of player control is more valuable at this stage of the Penguins cycle.

[FLPensFan]

I said yes, even if it were 8th overall. And the reason is, you just don't know what you are getting in the draft. A top 10 overall pick has about a 95% rate of making it to the NHL and playing at least a game, and even 100 games. But you can still have a guy go top 10 who may be projected as a 70-90 point elite player end up being only a 40-50 point 2nd line type player. You just don't know.

Add in that at 22, that's still quite young, and you have 3 seasons of history to get an idea of what his production range can be, and that he could help next season where a Frondell, Desnoyers, etc is likely 2-4 years away....that makes it a no brainer for me.

[BigMcK]

Any history of being injury prone?

Any history of him being benched (dog house bound) due to a conflict with the coaching staff?

If you offered me a prospect already battle ready for an unknown draft pick, I pause.

How many first round picks have the Penguins brought in recently that were misfit players on another team?

Don't sell the farm for a cow that no longer delivers milk.

Ducks draft record is mediocre. Ownership uses the franchise for tax purposes.

[Pens4Life]

For top 8 pick I wouldnt do it.. for NYR pick yes

Why? I dont see MM as game changer for Pens at this stage of team and when Sid retires in 2 years we are in no hurry.. So I rather have some younger prospect like Hagens, Eklund, Frondell, Desnoyers if any available at #8.. maybe even O'Brien or McQueen.. it will depend on last reports for McQueen.

[Puck-Lurker]

No. Rather see what we draft and how they develop. We're not in a win now mode, nor in a win next year one.

[john66]

I said yes, even if it were 8th overall. And the reason is, you just don't know what you are getting in the draft. A top 10 overall pick has about a 95% rate of making it to the NHL and playing at least a game, and even 100 games. But you can still have a guy go top 10 who may be projected as a 70-90 point elite player end up being only a 40-50 point 2nd line type player. You just don't know.

Add in that at 22, that's still quite young, and you have 3 seasons of history to get an idea of what his production range can be, and that he could help next season where a Frondell, Desnoyers, etc is likely 2-4 years away....that makes it a no brainer for me.

This 100%. You take a known commodity over an 18 year old unknown everytime.

I think next year, it's time to win.

[100565]

Easily, yes. Its a weak draft with only a few player highly likely to be high end talent with several others that have limited potential of being high level players.

MacTavish is their second leading scorer trailing by only 4 points.

I doubt the Ducks make the trade.

[Pens Fans Sweden]

I could have sworn that McTavish was spelled MacTavish, judt as FPF put it, but when I googled his stats, it's McTavish. Weird. My version of the Mandela Effect I guess.

[Victor]

I could have sworn that McTavish was spelled MacTavish, judt as FPF put it, but when I googled his stats, it's McTavish. Weird. My version of the Mandela Effect I guess.

Maybe some legacy that stuck in your mind... were you a fan of Craig MacTavish?

[Victor]

I'm not sure why would Anaheim make a deal like this. He might be their 2C. Unless there is a chance of a contract holdout...

[FLPensFan]

For top 8 pick I wouldnt do it.. for NYR pick yes

Why? I dont see MM as game changer for Pens at this stage of team and when Sid retires in 2 years we are in no hurry.. So I rather have some younger prospect like Hagens, Eklund, Frondell, Desnoyers if any available at #8.. maybe even O'Brien or McQueen.. it will depend on last reports for McQueen.

I see your point about being a game change, but, I'm not sure anyone in this draft except maybe for Schaefer is really in that category. Misa, Hagens, Desnoyers, and Frondell might be really good players, but I don't know if any of them are going to be play drivers at the NHL level or elite level.

[FLPensFan]

I'm not sure why would Anaheim make a deal like this. He might be their 2C. Unless there is a chance of a contract holdout...

The only reason would be, Anaheim has had issues with Zegras and Cronin made non-flattering comments about McTavish in the past. I have no idea if there is a rift there or not, or, if Cronin calling MM a 3rd liner could cause RFA negotiations to be contentious.

So, it may not even be possible, but, these are the types of trades Dubas needs to investigate. I was clamoring for the team to go after Dylan Holloway when EDM was possibly looking to sell low. Then STL scooped him up with the offer sheet. After having 9 points in 58 games and 9 points in 38 games for Edmonton, Holloway 26 goals and 63 points for the Blues.

Sometimes, coach, system, and expectations lead to players underperforming, and when given a chance elsewhere, you see them hit their potential. Dubas needs to take bigger swings at the Holloway, Cozens, Bennett, Reinhart, Montour, Nichuskin type of players that seemed to be bordering on bust with their original team, but flourished after a trade.

[FLPensFan]

I could have sworn that McTavish was spelled MacTavish, judt as FPF put it, but when I googled his stats, it's McTavish. Weird. My version of the Mandela Effect I guess.

It's funny, I always thought it was McTavish too, but somewhere I looked I swear I saw it listed MacTavish. Maybe I'm developing dyslexia in my old age. LOL

[Pens4Life]

For top 8 pick I wouldnt do it.. for NYR pick yes

Why? I dont see MM as game changer for Pens at this stage of team and when Sid retires in 2 years we are in no hurry.. So I rather have some younger prospect like Hagens, Eklund, Frondell, Desnoyers if any available at #8.. maybe even O'Brien or McQueen.. it will depend on last reports for McQueen.

I see your point about being a game change, but, I'm not sure anyone in this draft except maybe for Schaefer is really in that category. Misa, Hagens, Desnoyers, and Frondell might be really good players, but I don't know if any of them are going to be play drivers at the NHL level or elite level.

yes, also good point in that view - we shall see how KD goes thru draft night and offseason..

[Victor]

I'm not sure why would Anaheim make a deal like this. He might be their 2C. Unless there is a chance of a contract holdout...

The only reason would be, Anaheim has had issues with Zegras and Cronin made non-flattering comments about McTavish in the past. I have no idea if there is a rift there or not, or, if Cronin calling MM a 3rd liner could cause RFA negotiations to be contentious.

So, it may not even be possible, but, these are the types of trades Dubas needs to investigate. I was clamoring for the team to go after Dylan Holloway when EDM was possibly looking to sell low. Then STL scooped him up with the offer sheet. After having 9 points in 58 games and 9 points in 38 games for Edmonton, Holloway 26 goals and 63 points for the Blues.

Sometimes, coach, system, and expectations lead to players underperforming, and when given a chance elsewhere, you see them hit their potential. Dubas needs to take bigger swings at the Holloway, Cozens, Bennett, Reinhart, Montour, Nichuskin type of players that seemed to be bordering on bust with their original team, but flourished after a trade.

St. Louis must be quite happy with those offer sheets. Broberg is also looking quite good this season. They found a top 6 forward and a top 4 D for two draft picks, a 2nd and a 3rd. They're both only 23.

[Daniel]

I said yes, even if it were 8th overall. And the reason is, you just don't know what you are getting in the draft. A top 10 overall pick has about a 95% rate of making it to the NHL and playing at least a game, and even 100 games. But you can still have a guy go top 10 who may be projected as a 70-90 point elite player end up being only a 40-50 point 2nd line type player. You just don't know.

Add in that at 22, that's still quite young, and you have 3 seasons of history to get an idea of what his production range can be, and that he could help next season where a Frondell, Desnoyers, etc is likely 2-4 years away....that makes it a no brainer for me.

This 100%. You take a known commodity over an 18 year old unknown everytime.

I think next year, it's time to win.

Is he a known commodity though? 48 points is his best after 3 years and I think Desnoyers/Frondell can get that many points in their rookie year. If Sid/Geno were 5 years younger and the team was retooling rather than rebuilding, I’d agree, but they need a complete tear down and I’d rather the 4 more years of player control. McTavish is already an RFA and will be a UFA soon. I doubt Sid or Geno will ever get close to the Stanley Cup as a Penguin, so why do the trade? If McTavish is a known quality, it’s at 50 points.

[Daniel]

For top 8 pick I wouldnt do it.. for NYR pick yes

Why? I dont see MM as game changer for Pens at this stage of team and when Sid retires in 2 years we are in no hurry.. So I rather have some younger prospect like Hagens, Eklund, Frondell, Desnoyers if any available at #8.. maybe even O'Brien or McQueen.. it will depend on last reports for McQueen.

I see your point about being a game change, but, I'm not sure anyone in this draft except maybe for Schaefer is really in that category. Misa, Hagens, Desnoyers, and Frondell might be really good players, but I don't know if any of them are going to be play drivers at the NHL level or elite level.

I think any of them will be at least as good PLUS 4 years of player control. Just an unnecessary trade.

[FLPensFan]

I said yes, even if it were 8th overall. And the reason is, you just don't know what you are getting in the draft. A top 10 overall pick has about a 95% rate of making it to the NHL and playing at least a game, and even 100 games. But you can still have a guy go top 10 who may be projected as a 70-90 point elite player end up being only a 40-50 point 2nd line type player. You just don't know.

Add in that at 22, that's still quite young, and you have 3 seasons of history to get an idea of what his production range can be, and that he could help next season where a Frondell, Desnoyers, etc is likely 2-4 years away....that makes it a no brainer for me.

This 100%. You take a known commodity over an 18 year old unknown everytime.

I think next year, it's time to win.

Is he a known commodity though? 48 points is his best after 3 years and I think Desnoyers/Frondell can get that many points in their rookie year. If Sid/Geno were 5 years younger and the team was retooling rather than rebuilding, I’d agree, but they need a complete tear down and I’d rather the 4 more years of player control. McTavish is already an RFA and will be a UFA soon. I doubt Sid or Geno will ever get close to the Stanley Cup as a Penguin, so why do the trade? If McTavish is a known quality, it’s at 50 points.

Not arguing your answer. I clearly see both sides. So, I'll ask this way....if Hagens, Frondell, and Desnoyers are all gone at 8....which I think they will be, does that change your mind? I don't think McQueen (who is playing more LW) or O'Brien are going to be here anytime soon, and they are definitely more of a dice role in terms of top end compared to Hagens/Frondell/Desnoyers.

[Daniel]

I said yes, even if it were 8th overall. And the reason is, you just don't know what you are getting in the draft. A top 10 overall pick has about a 95% rate of making it to the NHL and playing at least a game, and even 100 games. But you can still have a guy go top 10 who may be projected as a 70-90 point elite player end up being only a 40-50 point 2nd line type player. You just don't know.

Add in that at 22, that's still quite young, and you have 3 seasons of history to get an idea of what his production range can be, and that he could help next season where a Frondell, Desnoyers, etc is likely 2-4 years away....that makes it a no brainer for me.

This 100%. You take a known commodity over an 18 year old unknown everytime.

I think next year, it's time to win.

Is he a known commodity though? 48 points is his best after 3 years and I think Desnoyers/Frondell can get that many points in their rookie year. If Sid/Geno were 5 years younger and the team was retooling rather than rebuilding, I’d agree, but they need a complete tear down and I’d rather the 4 more years of player control. McTavish is already an RFA and will be a UFA soon. I doubt Sid or Geno will ever get close to the Stanley Cup as a Penguin, so why do the trade? If McTavish is a known quality, it’s at 50 points.

Not arguing your answer. I clearly see both sides. So, I'll ask this way....if Hagens, Frondell, and Desnoyers are all gone at 8....which I think they will be, does that change your mind? I don't think McQueen (who is playing more LW) or O'Brien are going to be here anytime soon, and they are definitely more of a dice role in terms of top end compared to Hagens/Frondell/Desnoyers.

Depends on the final analysis of McQueen and O'Brien. If they stay at "roll the dice" then yes, UNLESS another defensemen gets to Shaefer level of can't miss. If it comes to "maybe", I'd take a chance on McTavish.

Bottom line though. At 8 we get into they can possibly go directly to the NHL and if they can, I won't do the trade. If they can't, or a top defensemen which takes longer, I wouldn't.

[VA Fan]

I have one question. Assuming we could trade for MacTavish. Were would we expect him to slot in our expected group of forwards next year? He will be in Pittsburgh unlike whoever we most likely would draft with our 1st. Would we expect him as the 2C in this hypothetical scenario or is he the 3C next year and then presumably becomes the 2C? I am assuming we are not expecting him to play wing.

[Daniel]

I have one question. Assuming we could trade for MacTavish. Were would we expect him to slot in our expected group of forwards next year? He will be in Pittsburgh unlike whoever we most likely would draft with our 1st. Would we expect him as the 2C in this hypothetical scenario or is he the 3C next year and then presumably becomes the 2C? I am assuming we are not expecting him to play wing.

I think that depends on Geno. One scenario would have him playing with Sid, and let's say Rust, with McTavish as 2C. If Geno plays 2C then we'd probably see 3 scoring lines.

Rust-Crosby-Malkin
McGroarty-McTavish-Rakell

McGroarty-Crosby-Rust
Koivunen-Geno-Rakell
Dewar-McTavish-Tomasino

[FLPensFan]

I said yes, even if it were 8th overall. And the reason is, you just don't know what you are getting in the draft. A top 10 overall pick has about a 95% rate of making it to the NHL and playing at least a game, and even 100 games. But you can still have a guy go top 10 who may be projected as a 70-90 point elite player end up being only a 40-50 point 2nd line type player. You just don't know.

Add in that at 22, that's still quite young, and you have 3 seasons of history to get an idea of what his production range can be, and that he could help next season where a Frondell, Desnoyers, etc is likely 2-4 years away....that makes it a no brainer for me.

This 100%. You take a known commodity over an 18 year old unknown everytime.

I think next year, it's time to win.

Is he a known commodity though? 48 points is his best after 3 years and I think Desnoyers/Frondell can get that many points in their rookie year. If Sid/Geno were 5 years younger and the team was retooling rather than rebuilding, I’d agree, but they need a complete tear down and I’d rather the 4 more years of player control. McTavish is already an RFA and will be a UFA soon. I doubt Sid or Geno will ever get close to the Stanley Cup as a Penguin, so why do the trade? If McTavish is a known quality, it’s at 50 points.

Not arguing your answer. I clearly see both sides. So, I'll ask this way....if Hagens, Frondell, and Desnoyers are all gone at 8....which I think they will be, does that change your mind? I don't think McQueen (who is playing more LW) or O'Brien are going to be here anytime soon, and they are definitely more of a dice role in terms of top end compared to Hagens/Frondell/Desnoyers.

Depends on the final analysis of McQueen and O'Brien. If they stay at "roll the dice" then yes, UNLESS another defensemen gets to Shaefer level of can't miss. If it comes to "maybe", I'd take a chance on McTavish.

Bottom line though. At 8 we get into they can possibly go directly to the NHL and if they can, I won't do the trade. If they can't, or a top defensemen which takes longer, I wouldn't.

With the exception of Schaefer, I think expecting anyone drafted in the top 10 to potentially jump straight to the NHL is an unrealistic ask.
--Celebrini, the 1st overall pick, was the only one to do it last year.
--In 2023, Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson, and Benson did it. Picks 1, 2, 3, and 13. I think there is an argument to be made that Benson was/still is not ready and was rushed by Buffalo.
--2022 draft, only Slafkovsky, and even as 1st overall, I think there is an argument here that he was rushed.
--2021, Power was drafted 1st overall. He played, but only 8 games in his draft year. Berniers played, but only 10 games. Sillinger, 12th overall, started that year with Columbus. And again, the argument could be made that he was rushed.

It's very rare to see more than 1 or 2 players make the jump to the NHL anymore. Most teams are desperate to infuse young talent into the lineup. I don't think that is Dubas's MO. If he were to draft a player, he's going to develop them until he thinks they are ready. We just watched him do it all season with RMG and Koivunen.