2025 NHL Draft

[pekkasteele]

We really spoiled the draft pick position, instead of being top 5 or 6,we are now 9th.
we have now around 5% chance to win lottery draw for no.1? Whats the worst spot we can end up?

11

How can we lose 2 spots? If a team after us wins the lottery they can pass us so we gwet 10th, how can we then go to 11?

[RentedMule66]

When do the Rangers need to declare if they're keeping their first round pick or giving it to us?

[100565]

We really spoiled the draft pick position, instead of being top 5 or 6,we are now 9th.
we have now around 5% chance to win lottery draw for no.1? Whats the worst spot we can end up?

11

How can we lose 2 spots? If a team after us wins the lottery they can pass us so we gwet 10th, how can we then go to 11?

There are two lottery picks. One for first overall. Another for second overall.

Here are the odds:
https://www.tankathon.com/nhl/pick_odds

not sure how the Pens have .2% chance of third overall though.

[pekkasteele]

We really spoiled the draft pick position, instead of being top 5 or 6,we are now 9th.
we have now around 5% chance to win lottery draw for no.1? Whats the worst spot we can end up?

11

How can we lose 2 spots? If a team after us wins the lottery they can pass us so we gwet 10th, how can we then go to 11?

There are two lottery picks. One for first overall. Another for second overall.

Here are the odds:
https://www.tankathon.com/nhl/pick_odds

not sure how the Pens have .2% chance of third overall though.

Wow, I have never known about a 2nd lottery, always thought it was only the one. Thanks.

[KG]

When do the Rangers need to declare if they're keeping their first round pick or giving it to us?

They have up to 48 hours before the draft to decide.

[Puck-Lurker]

We really spoiled the draft pick position, instead of being top 5 or 6,we are now 9th.
we have now around 5% chance to win lottery draw for no.1? Whats the worst spot we can end up?

11

How can we lose 2 spots? If a team after us wins the lottery they can pass us so we gwet 10th, how can we then go to 11?

There are two lottery picks. One for first overall. Another for second overall.

Here are the odds:
https://www.tankathon.com/nhl/pick_odds

not sure how the Pens have .2% chance of third overall though.

That's a corner case. Purely theoretical:

First lottery takes place, Detroit wins it. They are #12 overall and move up 10 spots to pick #2. Worst team, San Jose maintains #1.
Second lottery takes place, let's say Pittsburgh wins that. Neither SJ not DET get bumped down, PIT would move up to #3.

Thats the only way.

[Cow_Master66]

Well crap, I guess Jake O’Brien will be a nice pickup.

Not for the Pens. He’ll be long gone by #9. He is rising on everyone’s draft board. None of the players who most scouts think might develop into top line forwards are going to be available to the Pens at 9 unless a few teams go off the grid. That’s what winning meaningless games against teams mailing it in so you can feel good about your game and spout off about “pride” does for you

Agreed. O'Brien will be gone but hey Sid got the game winner so everyones summer is made.

This was a bad win that helps us in no way.

This seems to be the top 10 from mock drafts I've seen. Granted before the combine and interviews, but the last mock has the Penguins taking Jackson Smith. I wouldn't be against it, but if it goes in this order O'Brien is available. If he goes before that then who is available in his spot? I think the top 3 are pretty locked and I think Frondell/Desnoyer goes in the next 3. Not sure where Hagens end up, he was supposed to be number 1 but has fallen. Him and McQueen are the wildcards I think. Schaefer, Misa, Martone, Frondell, Desnoyers, Eklund seem to be can't miss prospects, even if none of them are franchise guys. If O'Brien goes before the Penguins, I think one of McQueen, Eklund, Hagens falls to the Penguins. Hagens is the only one I have doubts about, McQueen because of his injury concerns but he should be fine.

Matthew Schaefer
Michael Misa
Porter Martone
James Hagens
Anton Frondell
Caleb Desnoyers
Victor Eklund
Roger McQueen
Jackson Smith
Jake O'Brien

We'll see, but they really hurt their chances of a can't miss guy by drafting 9th rather than 5th. Of course, they could win the lottery OR someone pushes them to 10th. Might have to look at the 2nd tier prospects and throw away the great need for a center. Frankly if they draft 10th, they might consider trading down to get more picks. Seems to be a lot of question marks after the top 5-10.

If the Penguins stay at 9th, I'd say these are the players fans should be reading up on as potential picks:
-Jake O'Brien
-Victor Eklund
-Roger McQueen
-Porter Martone
-Kashawn Aitcheson
-Radim Mrtka
-Jackson Smith

I think someone will snatch up Martone because of his size, but one scout said Martone has the biggest weakness of any of the other players ranked in the top 5....which is his skating. Similar to McGroarty, he is said to have a heavy first few steps and an awkward stride.

O'Brien has been rising but, I do think there will be some teams in the top 10 that want to go defense over BPA, so O'Brien could fall into our range. Tankathon, for example, I believe is just picking the best players and slotting them in order. It's not looking at need at all. Seattle...I really don't see them taking a center with Berniers, Wright, McCann, and just drafting Berkley Catton last year. They are more of a landing spot for Martone, Eklund, one of the d-men, or going outside the predicted slotting.

I would also say that, if someone like O'Brien, Desnoyers, or Frondell fall outside the top 5, down to 6 or 7, I would strongly consider trading up to get one of them. To move from 9th to 7th overall would roughly cost us the Caps 2025 2nd we own, and maybe a 5th or a prospect. That's a very small price to pay. Moving up from 9th to 6th would likely cost them a 9th overall, plus a 2nd and a 3rd. This is why they have extra picks. If someone is willing to consider moving down a few slots to pickup extra picks, and we get a better player that fits our needs....100% we should go for it. I think moving up higher any more than 3 spots starts to become too costly, though.

I was hoping we would trade back and somehow pick up another 1st or 2nd next year. If we stick at #9 after the lottery, doesn't seem too likely.

[FLPensFan]

Not for the Pens. He’ll be long gone by #9. He is rising on everyone’s draft board. None of the players who most scouts think might develop into top line forwards are going to be available to the Pens at 9 unless a few teams go off the grid. That’s what winning meaningless games against teams mailing it in so you can feel good about your game and spout off about “pride” does for you

Agreed. O'Brien will be gone but hey Sid got the game winner so everyones summer is made.

This was a bad win that helps us in no way.

This seems to be the top 10 from mock drafts I've seen. Granted before the combine and interviews, but the last mock has the Penguins taking Jackson Smith. I wouldn't be against it, but if it goes in this order O'Brien is available. If he goes before that then who is available in his spot? I think the top 3 are pretty locked and I think Frondell/Desnoyer goes in the next 3. Not sure where Hagens end up, he was supposed to be number 1 but has fallen. Him and McQueen are the wildcards I think. Schaefer, Misa, Martone, Frondell, Desnoyers, Eklund seem to be can't miss prospects, even if none of them are franchise guys. If O'Brien goes before the Penguins, I think one of McQueen, Eklund, Hagens falls to the Penguins. Hagens is the only one I have doubts about, McQueen because of his injury concerns but he should be fine.

Matthew Schaefer
Michael Misa
Porter Martone
James Hagens
Anton Frondell
Caleb Desnoyers
Victor Eklund
Roger McQueen
Jackson Smith
Jake O'Brien

We'll see, but they really hurt their chances of a can't miss guy by drafting 9th rather than 5th. Of course, they could win the lottery OR someone pushes them to 10th. Might have to look at the 2nd tier prospects and throw away the great need for a center. Frankly if they draft 10th, they might consider trading down to get more picks. Seems to be a lot of question marks after the top 5-10.

If the Penguins stay at 9th, I'd say these are the players fans should be reading up on as potential picks:
-Jake O'Brien
-Victor Eklund
-Roger McQueen
-Porter Martone
-Kashawn Aitcheson
-Radim Mrtka
-Jackson Smith

I think someone will snatch up Martone because of his size, but one scout said Martone has the biggest weakness of any of the other players ranked in the top 5....which is his skating. Similar to McGroarty, he is said to have a heavy first few steps and an awkward stride.

O'Brien has been rising but, I do think there will be some teams in the top 10 that want to go defense over BPA, so O'Brien could fall into our range. Tankathon, for example, I believe is just picking the best players and slotting them in order. It's not looking at need at all. Seattle...I really don't see them taking a center with Berniers, Wright, McCann, and just drafting Berkley Catton last year. They are more of a landing spot for Martone, Eklund, one of the d-men, or going outside the predicted slotting.

I would also say that, if someone like O'Brien, Desnoyers, or Frondell fall outside the top 5, down to 6 or 7, I would strongly consider trading up to get one of them. To move from 9th to 7th overall would roughly cost us the Caps 2025 2nd we own, and maybe a 5th or a prospect. That's a very small price to pay. Moving up from 9th to 6th would likely cost them a 9th overall, plus a 2nd and a 3rd. This is why they have extra picks. If someone is willing to consider moving down a few slots to pickup extra picks, and we get a better player that fits our needs....100% we should go for it. I think moving up higher any more than 3 spots starts to become too costly, though.

I was hoping we would trade back and somehow pick up another 1st or 2nd next year. If we stick at #9 after the lottery, doesn't seem too likely.

The only way I would consider trading back would be if we won the lottery and 1st overall. I really like Schaefer. He'd really help our team and #1 d-men are hard to acquire....but, what if SJ REALLY wanted Schaefer. They need good young d-men to continue building out their team.

Just to move up 1 spot from 2nd to 1st, the deal would likely look like this:
--PIT sends 1st overall and WSH 2025 2nd round pick to SJ for SJ 2nd overall and SJ 1st overall pick in 2026 (I projected as 10th for value estimate)

Moving down one spot, we'd pass on the game-breaking d-man, but have our pick of any of the centers in this draft, plus gain an extra 1st round pick next year. Very unlikely to win the lottery, but interesting to ponder.

[Antonio]

Boy, this team really did a great job proving it could neither lose nor win correctly this year.

[100565]

Boy, this team really did a great job proving it could neither lose nor win correctly this year.

No doubt!

[100565]

Agreed. O'Brien will be gone but hey Sid got the game winner so everyones summer is made.

This was a bad win that helps us in no way.

This seems to be the top 10 from mock drafts I've seen. Granted before the combine and interviews, but the last mock has the Penguins taking Jackson Smith. I wouldn't be against it, but if it goes in this order O'Brien is available. If he goes before that then who is available in his spot? I think the top 3 are pretty locked and I think Frondell/Desnoyer goes in the next 3. Not sure where Hagens end up, he was supposed to be number 1 but has fallen. Him and McQueen are the wildcards I think. Schaefer, Misa, Martone, Frondell, Desnoyers, Eklund seem to be can't miss prospects, even if none of them are franchise guys. If O'Brien goes before the Penguins, I think one of McQueen, Eklund, Hagens falls to the Penguins. Hagens is the only one I have doubts about, McQueen because of his injury concerns but he should be fine.

Matthew Schaefer
Michael Misa
Porter Martone
James Hagens
Anton Frondell
Caleb Desnoyers
Victor Eklund
Roger McQueen
Jackson Smith
Jake O'Brien

We'll see, but they really hurt their chances of a can't miss guy by drafting 9th rather than 5th. Of course, they could win the lottery OR someone pushes them to 10th. Might have to look at the 2nd tier prospects and throw away the great need for a center. Frankly if they draft 10th, they might consider trading down to get more picks. Seems to be a lot of question marks after the top 5-10.

If the Penguins stay at 9th, I'd say these are the players fans should be reading up on as potential picks:
-Jake O'Brien
-Victor Eklund
-Roger McQueen
-Porter Martone
-Kashawn Aitcheson
-Radim Mrtka
-Jackson Smith

I think someone will snatch up Martone because of his size, but one scout said Martone has the biggest weakness of any of the other players ranked in the top 5....which is his skating. Similar to McGroarty, he is said to have a heavy first few steps and an awkward stride.

O'Brien has been rising but, I do think there will be some teams in the top 10 that want to go defense over BPA, so O'Brien could fall into our range. Tankathon, for example, I believe is just picking the best players and slotting them in order. It's not looking at need at all. Seattle...I really don't see them taking a center with Berniers, Wright, McCann, and just drafting Berkley Catton last year. They are more of a landing spot for Martone, Eklund, one of the d-men, or going outside the predicted slotting.

I would also say that, if someone like O'Brien, Desnoyers, or Frondell fall outside the top 5, down to 6 or 7, I would strongly consider trading up to get one of them. To move from 9th to 7th overall would roughly cost us the Caps 2025 2nd we own, and maybe a 5th or a prospect. That's a very small price to pay. Moving up from 9th to 6th would likely cost them a 9th overall, plus a 2nd and a 3rd. This is why they have extra picks. If someone is willing to consider moving down a few slots to pickup extra picks, and we get a better player that fits our needs....100% we should go for it. I think moving up higher any more than 3 spots starts to become too costly, though.

I was hoping we would trade back and somehow pick up another 1st or 2nd next year. If we stick at #9 after the lottery, doesn't seem too likely.

The only way I would consider trading back would be if we won the lottery and 1st overall. I really like Schaefer. He'd really help our team and #1 d-men are hard to acquire....but, what if SJ REALLY wanted Schaefer. They need good young d-men to continue building out their team.

Just to move up 1 spot from 2nd to 1st, the deal would likely look like this:
--PIT sends 1st overall and WSH 2025 2nd round pick to SJ for SJ 2nd overall and SJ 1st overall pick in 2026 (I projected as 10th for value estimate)

Moving down one spot, we'd pass on the game-breaking d-man, but have our pick of any of the centers in this draft, plus gain an extra 1st round pick next year. Very unlikely to win the lottery, but interesting to ponder.

Not me, first overall is a no brainer. Select Schaefer. should be future 1D.

[100565]

9 is awful. From reading, most prospects around 9 seem to be a 20-25 range in a typical draft. That sucks!

[Daniel]

9 is awful. From reading, most prospects around 9 seem to be a 20-25 range in a typical draft. That sucks!

I think the Rangers will give up this years draft. There doesn't seem to be many franchise or All Star caliber prospects, so frankly 6th or 9th or 12th likely doesn't make a lot of difference. Unless they can get Frondell, Desnoyers, O'Brien, trading back doesn't seem to be a bad thing. Especially if they can add another 2nd. Not sure why anyone would give that up, just saying.

[Gunnerfan]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

[Daniel]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

It was a good learning experience and I think it'll help WBS in this years playoffs. They're a very young team with a 1st year coach and Koivenun & McGroarty coming up as AHL rookies will add some excitement.

That being said, 9th still kinda sucks, but I see your point.

[Puck-Lurker]

If we win the lottery, we still get a top 3 pick

[Michael74]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

They could have gotten that ''invaluable experience'' next year and not hurt their draft prospects this year.

And if they wanna know what it's like to win at the NHL level with this team they need to go back seven years.

[100565]

If we win the lottery, we still get a top 3 pick

1 out of 10 times the Pens end with first or second overall. No whammies. no whammies. stop.

[Michael74]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

It was a good learning experience and I think it'll help WBS in this years playoffs. They're a very young team with a 1st year coach and Koivenun & McGroarty coming up as AHL rookies will add some excitement.

That being said, 9th still kinda sucks, but I see your point.

His point basically suggests that being mediocre is acceptable. No, he really doesn't have a good point. In order to get difference makers you need to have a few down years to be competitive again. Nothing wrong with that IF you make those picks count.

He'd rather us pick 120A in perpetuity as long as Sid gets his points. He's anti team, Pro Sid (for context).

[Daniel]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

It was a good learning experience and I think it'll help WBS in this years playoffs. They're a very young team with a 1st year coach and Koivenun & McGroarty coming up as AHL rookies will add some excitement.

That being said, 9th still kinda sucks, but I see your point.

His point basically suggests that being mediocre is acceptable. No, he really doesn't have a good point. In order to get difference makers you need to have a few down years to be competitive again. Nothing wrong with that IF you make those picks count.

He'd rather us pick 120A in perpetuity as long as Sid gets his points. He's anti team, Pro Sid (for context).

I see both points. Your point of having down years is fine, but it should be organic, not on purpose. If you take away all the competitive stuff, it's still their livelihood. Scouts, trainers, stadium vendors, etc. If you look like you're losing on purpose the attendance will get lower and people lose money/jobs (look at the Pirates). Attendance will go down with losing, but that's normal, losing on purpose can create long term ill will. Especially in todays social media environment (again...Pirates).

We have no control over the outcome of the games and I wanted them to lose to get a better draft pick, BUT not at the expense of the franchise. Yes, McGroarty and Koivunen could have come up next year but I think this was a perfect time for them to come up. WBS had already clinched, bring those two AHL rookies up for experience both on the ice and off and that will benefit the players, the franchise, and WBS. We complain because players don't get a chance, I think WBS suffers because players know the AHL is the end of the road because of the lack of opportunity, so this helps fix that narrative. Imagine the scene in Bull Durham when Crash talks about being in the show. Sure it's not 100% because McGroarty was up before, but imagine the two AHL rookies coming back to WBS and talking about the latest experience. We know a young team can get excited over the smallest thing and go far in the playoffs because of it. This will unite the team and hopefully they go far in the playoffs.

The bottom line is turning this around quickly and I think the experience for McGroarty and Koivunen helps the franchise. I also look at this years draft. If they were missing out on Jordan Staal, I'd be pretty hacked off, but this is a pretty ordinary draft. We've discussed this a lot, so won't revisit too much, but this draft has a bunch of 2nd line centers and maybe 1 potential superstar. The dropoff from Hagens, Frondell, Desnoyers, to O'Brien. McQueen, Martin, Bear, Lakovic isn't that great. I have a feeling they'll either get O'Brien or whichever of Frondell, Desnoyers, Hagens drops because he goes earlier.

[Michael74]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

It was a good learning experience and I think it'll help WBS in this years playoffs. They're a very young team with a 1st year coach and Koivenun & McGroarty coming up as AHL rookies will add some excitement.

That being said, 9th still kinda sucks, but I see your point.

His point basically suggests that being mediocre is acceptable. No, he really doesn't have a good point. In order to get difference makers you need to have a few down years to be competitive again. Nothing wrong with that IF you make those picks count.

He'd rather us pick 120A in perpetuity as long as Sid gets his points. He's anti team, Pro Sid (for context).

I see both points. Your point of having down years is fine, but it should be organic, not on purpose. If you take away all the competitive stuff, it's still their livelihood. Scouts, trainers, stadium vendors, etc. If you look like you're losing on purpose the attendance will get lower and people lose money/jobs (look at the Pirates). Attendance will go down with losing, but that's normal, losing on purpose can create long term ill will. Especially in todays social media environment (again...Pirates).

We have no control over the outcome of the games and I wanted them to lose to get a better draft pick, BUT not at the expense of the franchise. Yes, McGroarty and Koivunen could have come up next year but I think this was a perfect time for them to come up. WBS had already clinched, bring those two AHL rookies up for experience both on the ice and off and that will benefit the players, the franchise, and WBS. We complain because players don't get a chance, I think WBS suffers because players know the AHL is the end of the road because of the lack of opportunity, so this helps fix that narrative. Imagine the scene in Bull Durham when Crash talks about being in the show. Sure it's not 100% because McGroarty was up before, but imagine the two AHL rookies coming back to WBS and talking about the latest experience. We know a young team can get excited over the smallest thing and go far in the playoffs because of it. This will unite the team and hopefully they go far in the playoffs.

The bottom line is turning this around quickly and I think the experience for McGroarty and Koivunen helps the franchise. I also look at this years draft. If they were missing out on Jordan Staal, I'd be pretty hacked off, but this is a pretty ordinary draft. We've discussed this a lot, so won't revisit too much, but this draft has a bunch of 2nd line centers and maybe 1 potential superstar. The dropoff from Hagens, Frondell, Desnoyers, to O'Brien. McQueen, Martin, Bear, Lakovic isn't that great. I have a feeling they'll either get O'Brien or whichever of Frondell, Desnoyers, Hagens drops because he goes earlier.

It wasn't organic though. They were dead to right! And then they called up the youngins from WB to give the team a spark. They essentially sabotaged their draft positioning. And then decided to play Jarry nearly every game as he was on a hot streak. It's not even about tanking, it's about going out of your way to win meaningless. That's a BIG distinction there. They should have just left well enough alone is my point.

These young players could get the needed experience NEXT season. That wouldn't have hurt this team in any way. It was an unforced error. And it costs us three or four spots in this draft. Needless! As far as the talent in this draft I think you're selling some of these players a bit short. At least offensively, these top guys have much better scoring ability then Staal ever did.

[Gunnerfan]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

They could have gotten that ''invaluable experience'' next year and not hurt their draft prospects this year.

And if they wanna know what it's like ton win at the NHL level with this team they need to go back seven years.

Loser thinking…again

[Michael74]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

They could have gotten that ''invaluable experience'' next year and not hurt their draft prospects this year.

And if they wanna know what it's like ton win at the NHL level with this team they need to go back seven years.

Loser thinking…again

No, if you wanna win sometimes you need to take a step backwards 1st. Wasn't Sid a 1st overall pick? Geno 2hd OA? MAF 1st OA? Mario? Jagr 5th OA? That's how YOU WIN! You draft core pieces in order to try and win, see? Mushy middle don't work!

[FLPensFan]

You call kids up and win games. That's the goal. They get an understanding of what it takes to win at the NHL level. That's invaluable experience. It's better to get the #9 pick with that experience than to tank and have a loser's mentality and get #3.

They could have gotten that ''invaluable experience'' next year and not hurt their draft prospects this year.

And if they wanna know what it's like ton win at the NHL level with this team they need to go back seven years.

Loser thinking…again

I wanted the best pick possible, but I agree that the experience for those 2 was invaluable. Both are much better than I expected, as I thought both were top 9 guys that could occasionally play in the top 6, or more Dupuis types that could hang in a top 6 role versus being a true top 6 guy.

If you don't give those guys the games they got, you go into next season not knowing if you can count on them to be at the NHL level or not. I think we saw enough at the end of the season that, penciling in RMG and Koivunen on the NHL roster is a given.

I didn't understand the Kral recall, just to sit him. I don't know what he can do on defense. Offensively, he was good at WBS. Again, how do you know how player X can perform at the NHL level if you've never played him there.

[thehockeyguru]

I have no problem with the WBS guys getting called up, but Jarry?

Of course there are more questions than answers on the blue line but I really want to see Ned or Jarry moved at the draft or at some point during free agency