2025 NHL Draft

[Antonio]

I've not needed the 'foe' feature on this board for many, many years... until recently. Anyone not using it in this particular case has a far greater tolerance of inane repetition than I could possibly imagine.

No doubt. Worst is when people quote the nonsense because then you see it even if it is initially blocked.

[Toke]

Thank you, I had no idea it existed...first time user.

[Daniel]

I'm not anti-team. I've been a season ticket holder since 1982. So you trying to validate my fandom is really odd, weird, and immature. I could go on and on. I'm pro-winning, not losing in some pseudo-pro scouting wet dream where you think you understand every pick and player, you don't. Especially with the NHL 17-year-old being drafted. You can lose in life on your own time. I want my team and players to try to win every game, every trade, at every level. Try again or move on, Holmes.

How dare you make sense

Actually, it doesn't make sense. How anyone is satisfied with the last seven seasons of underachieving, in some cases inept leadership and out right futility is mind boggling! A seismic change needs to be made. Yet no one here seems to understand that! The overwhelming evidence is right in front of you.

For the love of God, stop it already. As fans we don't determine the outcome of anything. No team is going to purposely lose to just hope they get that one good prospect, this is their livelihood. Would you tank at your job to hope for new leadership? The Pre Fleury/Malkin/Crosby/Staal Penguins tried very hard to win, they just didn't have talent.

The window is closed, they have a top 10 pick and possibly 2 top 15 picks. I doubt we'll see a Red Wing style 15 year turnaround, Dubas is too smart for that. Trust the process and enjoy the team. I get being frustrated that they didn't get a top 5 pick, but continually debating it doesn't help. Discuss which 9th and 11th overall pick is the best fit and remember that rooting for them to lose doesn't help them lose anymore than rooting for them to win helps them win (unless you're there then you might help give them energy). It just makes you look bad. We all want the team to be successful and talking about purposely tanking has gone it's course, and then some. Move on to discussing the draft.

In the end we all agree with this.......Let's Go Pens.

[Michael74]

I'm not anti-team. I've been a season ticket holder since 1982. So you trying to validate my fandom is really odd, weird, and immature. I could go on and on. I'm pro-winning, not losing in some pseudo-pro scouting wet dream where you think you understand every pick and player, you don't. Especially with the NHL 17-year-old being drafted. You can lose in life on your own time. I want my team and players to try to win every game, every trade, at every level. Try again or move on, Holmes.

How dare you make sense

Actually, it doesn't make sense. How anyone is satisfied with the last seven seasons of underachieving, in some cases inept leadership and out right futility is mind boggling! A seismic change needs to be made. Yet no one here seems to understand that! The overwhelming evidence is right in front of you.

For the love of God, stop it already. As fans we don't determine the outcome of anything. No team is going to purposely lose to just hope they get that one good prospect, this is their livelihood. Would you tank at your job to hope for new leadership? The Pre Fleury/Malkin/Crosby/Staal Penguins tried very hard to win, they just didn't have talent.

The window is closed, they have a top 10 pick and possibly 2 top 15 picks. I doubt we'll see a Red Wing style 15 year turnaround, Dubas is too smart for that. Trust the process and enjoy the team. I get being frustrated that they didn't get a top 5 pick, but continually debating it doesn't help. Discuss which 9th and 11th overall pick is the best fit and remember that rooting for them to lose doesn't help them lose anymore than rooting for them to win helps them win (unless you're there then you might help give them energy). It just makes you look bad. We all want the team to be successful and talking about purposely tanking has gone it's course, and then some. Move on to discussing the draft.

In the end we all agree with this.......Let's Go Pens.

We can agree to disagree, but my contention isn't necessarily to tank believe it or not. It's kinda the opposite. It's going all out ONLY when the season was already decided. Based on their play they weren't turning over every stone to accumulate points earlier in the season when they were getting blown out 6-1 to Utah. My point is if you wanna win show that level of play ALL season as opposed to only displaying it when it doesn't help anything. I 100% agree the window is closed. They're just inefficient as to how they're handling it.

And I am very much looking forward to the draft. I think we'll do well this summer.

[Daniel]

How dare you make sense

Actually, it doesn't make sense. How anyone is satisfied with the last seven seasons of underachieving, in some cases inept leadership and out right futility is mind boggling! A seismic change needs to be made. Yet no one here seems to understand that! The overwhelming evidence is right in front of you.

For the love of God, stop it already. As fans we don't determine the outcome of anything. No team is going to purposely lose to just hope they get that one good prospect, this is their livelihood. Would you tank at your job to hope for new leadership? The Pre Fleury/Malkin/Crosby/Staal Penguins tried very hard to win, they just didn't have talent.

The window is closed, they have a top 10 pick and possibly 2 top 15 picks. I doubt we'll see a Red Wing style 15 year turnaround, Dubas is too smart for that. Trust the process and enjoy the team. I get being frustrated that they didn't get a top 5 pick, but continually debating it doesn't help. Discuss which 9th and 11th overall pick is the best fit and remember that rooting for them to lose doesn't help them lose anymore than rooting for them to win helps them win (unless you're there then you might help give them energy). It just makes you look bad. We all want the team to be successful and talking about purposely tanking has gone it's course, and then some. Move on to discussing the draft.

In the end we all agree with this.......Let's Go Pens.

We can agree to disagree, but my contention isn't necessarily to tank believe it or not. It's kinda the opposite. It's going all out ONLY when the season was already decided. Based on their play they weren't turning over every stone to accumulate points earlier in the season when they were getting blown out 6-1 to Utah. My point is if you wanna win show that level of play ALL season as opposed to only displaying it when it doesn't help anything. I 100% agree the window is closed. They're just inefficient as to how they're handling it.

And I am very much looking forward to the draft. I think we'll do well this summer.

People respect agree to disagree, they don't respect ad nauseam and you know that. It's easy to go back and forth for weeks on a message board, trust me we've all done it. Sometimes it just takes someone to say ENOUGH.

I honestly think Dubas has been pretty efficient in how he's handling things so far and I don't think we'll need the 5 year plan, or heaven forbid the Red Wings 15 year plan. I think you can define the NHL level by the AHL success and WBS has had a huge turnaround just by getting a teacher as coach and having a commitment to youth. I can see an almost total youth movement at the NHL level.

I think you'll see Koivunen and McGroarty skate at least 50 games next season. I can see Poulin getting a regular spot, even on the 4th line. I can see Broz, Puustinen, and Ponomarev being able to compete for a regular spot as well. On defense I can see Pickering and Brunicke competing for regular playing time, though Brunicke has the 10 game thing so maybe not. I can see Blomqvist being up most of the year next season.

If I told you this would be next years lineup, I doubt there would be much argument (left EK in because it'll be a really difficult trade AND the return is impossible to predict).

Rearrange as necessary, but something close to this:
Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
Broz/Ponomarev/Puustinen (rotation through the season until someone earns it-Novak-Tomasino
Poulin-Hayes-Dewar

Karlsson-Kolyachonok
Letang-Pickering
Timmins-Graves

Jarry
Blomqvist

I think that could be a playoff team then build on it for 2026-27 with Brunicke/Murasov almost certainly being a mid season callup.

[Michael74]

How dare you make sense

Actually, it doesn't make sense. How anyone is satisfied with the last seven seasons of underachieving, in some cases inept leadership and out right futility is mind boggling! A seismic change needs to be made. Yet no one here seems to understand that! The overwhelming evidence is right in front of you.

For the love of God, stop it already. As fans we don't determine the outcome of anything. No team is going to purposely lose to just hope they get that one good prospect, this is their livelihood. Would you tank at your job to hope for new leadership? The Pre Fleury/Malkin/Crosby/Staal Penguins tried very hard to win, they just didn't have talent.

The window is closed, they have a top 10 pick and possibly 2 top 15 picks. I doubt we'll see a Red Wing style 15 year turnaround, Dubas is too smart for that. Trust the process and enjoy the team. I get being frustrated that they didn't get a top 5 pick, but continually debating it doesn't help. Discuss which 9th and 11th overall pick is the best fit and remember that rooting for them to lose doesn't help them lose anymore than rooting for them to win helps them win (unless you're there then you might help give them energy). It just makes you look bad. We all want the team to be successful and talking about purposely tanking has gone it's course, and then some. Move on to discussing the draft.

In the end we all agree with this.......Let's Go Pens.

We can agree to disagree, but my contention isn't necessarily to tank believe it or not. It's kinda the opposite. It's going all out ONLY when the season was already decided. Based on their play they weren't turning over every stone to accumulate points earlier in the season when they were getting blown out 6-1 to Utah. My point is if you wanna win show that level of play ALL season as opposed to only displaying it when it doesn't help anything. I 100% agree the window is closed. They're just inefficient as to how they're handling it.

And I am very much looking forward to the draft. I think we'll do well this summer.

People respect agree to disagree, they don't respect ad nauseam and you know that. It's easy to go back and forth for weeks on a message board, trust me we've all done it. Sometimes it just takes someone to say ENOUGH.

I honestly think Dubas has been pretty efficient in how he's handling things so far and I don't think we'll need the 5 year plan, or heaven forbid the Red Wings 15 year plan. I think you can define the NHL level by the AHL success and WBS has had a huge turnaround just by getting a teacher as coach and having a commitment to youth. I can see an almost total youth movement at the NHL level.

I think you'll see Koivunen and McGroarty skate at least 50 games next season. I can see Poulin getting a regular spot, even on the 4th line. I can see Broz, Puustinen, and Ponomarev being able to compete for a regular spot as well. On defense I can see Pickering and Brunicke competing for regular playing time, though Brunicke has the 10 game thing so maybe not. I can see Blomqvist being up most of the year next season.

If I told you this would be next years lineup, I doubt there would be much argument (left EK in because it'll be a really difficult trade AND the return is impossible to predict).

Rearrange as necessary, but something close to this:
Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
Broz/Ponomarev/Puustinen (rotation through the season until someone earns it-Novak-Tomasino
Poulin-Hayes-Dewar

Karlsson-Kolyachonok
Letang-Pickering
Timmins-Graves

Jarry
Blomqvist

I think that could be a playoff team then build on it for 2026-27 with Brunicke/Murasov almost certainly being a mid season callup.

My primary focus for the foreseeable future for the team is to draft and develop effectively. And they absolutely need to hit home runs with their 1st rounders. They got a very good scouting department now. Top five in the league IMO.

They are not a playoff caliber team. Unless they get Marner as a UFA you're not gonna win with your top two centers being 38-39 years old as great as they might be or were.

I look forward to trades and hopefully getting guys Like Eklund, OBrien or Martin in the draft. Kyle has proven he can derive very good value in trades. I'm a bit more concerned about his UFA signings however.

[FLPensFan]

How dare you make sense

Actually, it doesn't make sense. How anyone is satisfied with the last seven seasons of underachieving, in some cases inept leadership and out right futility is mind boggling! A seismic change needs to be made. Yet no one here seems to understand that! The overwhelming evidence is right in front of you.

For the love of God, stop it already. As fans we don't determine the outcome of anything. No team is going to purposely lose to just hope they get that one good prospect, this is their livelihood. Would you tank at your job to hope for new leadership? The Pre Fleury/Malkin/Crosby/Staal Penguins tried very hard to win, they just didn't have talent.

The window is closed, they have a top 10 pick and possibly 2 top 15 picks. I doubt we'll see a Red Wing style 15 year turnaround, Dubas is too smart for that. Trust the process and enjoy the team. I get being frustrated that they didn't get a top 5 pick, but continually debating it doesn't help. Discuss which 9th and 11th overall pick is the best fit and remember that rooting for them to lose doesn't help them lose anymore than rooting for them to win helps them win (unless you're there then you might help give them energy). It just makes you look bad. We all want the team to be successful and talking about purposely tanking has gone it's course, and then some. Move on to discussing the draft.

In the end we all agree with this.......Let's Go Pens.

We can agree to disagree, but my contention isn't necessarily to tank believe it or not. It's kinda the opposite. It's going all out ONLY when the season was already decided. Based on their play they weren't turning over every stone to accumulate points earlier in the season when they were getting blown out 6-1 to Utah. My point is if you wanna win show that level of play ALL season as opposed to only displaying it when it doesn't help anything. I 100% agree the window is closed. They're just inefficient as to how they're handling it.

And I am very much looking forward to the draft. I think we'll do well this summer.

People respect agree to disagree, they don't respect ad nauseam and you know that. It's easy to go back and forth for weeks on a message board, trust me we've all done it. Sometimes it just takes someone to say ENOUGH.

I honestly think Dubas has been pretty efficient in how he's handling things so far and I don't think we'll need the 5 year plan, or heaven forbid the Red Wings 15 year plan. I think you can define the NHL level by the AHL success and WBS has had a huge turnaround just by getting a teacher as coach and having a commitment to youth. I can see an almost total youth movement at the NHL level.

I think you'll see Koivunen and McGroarty skate at least 50 games next season. I can see Poulin getting a regular spot, even on the 4th line. I can see Broz, Puustinen, and Ponomarev being able to compete for a regular spot as well. On defense I can see Pickering and Brunicke competing for regular playing time, though Brunicke has the 10 game thing so maybe not. I can see Blomqvist being up most of the year next season.

If I told you this would be next years lineup, I doubt there would be much argument (left EK in because it'll be a really difficult trade AND the return is impossible to predict).

Rearrange as necessary, but something close to this:
Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
Broz/Ponomarev/Puustinen (rotation through the season until someone earns it-Novak-Tomasino
Poulin-Hayes-Dewar

Karlsson-Kolyachonok
Letang-Pickering
Timmins-Graves

Jarry
Blomqvist

I think that could be a playoff team then build on it for 2026-27 with Brunicke/Murasov almost certainly being a mid season callup.

Nitpicking, but I'd switch Rakell and McGroary. I think Rakell does much better on LW.
I'd rather see Hayes and Heinen gone, and keep Acciari as an extra, rotating with Dewar.
I'm really intrigued by Matej Blumel that Pens4Life mentioned in the other thread. Led the AHL in goals, 1 point behind overall points lead turns 25 at the end of May which allows him to become a Group 6 UFA this summer.

I don't think this is a playoff team because we haven't done anything to the defense. There needs to be new blood brought in. And as much as I loved what I saw from Kolyachonok, his numbers stunk once he got moved with Letang, and that's all Sullivan will see...his numbers stunk (ignoring the Letang part).

What I'd love to see....

Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
Rakell-Malkin-McGroarty
McBain-Novak-Tomasino/Blumel
Lizotte-Ponomarev-Acciari/Poulin

X-Karlsson
Matheson-Ekblad
Kolyachonok/Pickering-Brunicke/Timmins
x-Graves

Trade Letang for Matheson
Sign Ekblad on the UFA market
Trade for McBain's rights with Utah
Sign Blumel as a G6 UFA

Still need to find a top pairing d-man to play with Karlsson, preferably a stay at home guy. I don't think Graves, Kolyachonok or Pickering are the right fit.

[Daniel]

Actually, it doesn't make sense. How anyone is satisfied with the last seven seasons of underachieving, in some cases inept leadership and out right futility is mind boggling! A seismic change needs to be made. Yet no one here seems to understand that! The overwhelming evidence is right in front of you.

For the love of God, stop it already. As fans we don't determine the outcome of anything. No team is going to purposely lose to just hope they get that one good prospect, this is their livelihood. Would you tank at your job to hope for new leadership? The Pre Fleury/Malkin/Crosby/Staal Penguins tried very hard to win, they just didn't have talent.

The window is closed, they have a top 10 pick and possibly 2 top 15 picks. I doubt we'll see a Red Wing style 15 year turnaround, Dubas is too smart for that. Trust the process and enjoy the team. I get being frustrated that they didn't get a top 5 pick, but continually debating it doesn't help. Discuss which 9th and 11th overall pick is the best fit and remember that rooting for them to lose doesn't help them lose anymore than rooting for them to win helps them win (unless you're there then you might help give them energy). It just makes you look bad. We all want the team to be successful and talking about purposely tanking has gone it's course, and then some. Move on to discussing the draft.

In the end we all agree with this.......Let's Go Pens.

We can agree to disagree, but my contention isn't necessarily to tank believe it or not. It's kinda the opposite. It's going all out ONLY when the season was already decided. Based on their play they weren't turning over every stone to accumulate points earlier in the season when they were getting blown out 6-1 to Utah. My point is if you wanna win show that level of play ALL season as opposed to only displaying it when it doesn't help anything. I 100% agree the window is closed. They're just inefficient as to how they're handling it.

And I am very much looking forward to the draft. I think we'll do well this summer.

People respect agree to disagree, they don't respect ad nauseam and you know that. It's easy to go back and forth for weeks on a message board, trust me we've all done it. Sometimes it just takes someone to say ENOUGH.

I honestly think Dubas has been pretty efficient in how he's handling things so far and I don't think we'll need the 5 year plan, or heaven forbid the Red Wings 15 year plan. I think you can define the NHL level by the AHL success and WBS has had a huge turnaround just by getting a teacher as coach and having a commitment to youth. I can see an almost total youth movement at the NHL level.

I think you'll see Koivunen and McGroarty skate at least 50 games next season. I can see Poulin getting a regular spot, even on the 4th line. I can see Broz, Puustinen, and Ponomarev being able to compete for a regular spot as well. On defense I can see Pickering and Brunicke competing for regular playing time, though Brunicke has the 10 game thing so maybe not. I can see Blomqvist being up most of the year next season.

If I told you this would be next years lineup, I doubt there would be much argument (left EK in because it'll be a really difficult trade AND the return is impossible to predict).

Rearrange as necessary, but something close to this:
Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
Broz/Ponomarev/Puustinen (rotation through the season until someone earns it-Novak-Tomasino
Poulin-Hayes-Dewar

Karlsson-Kolyachonok
Letang-Pickering
Timmins-Graves

Jarry
Blomqvist

I think that could be a playoff team then build on it for 2026-27 with Brunicke/Murasov almost certainly being a mid season callup.

Nitpicking, but I'd switch Rakell and McGroary. I think Rakell does much better on LW.
I'd rather see Hayes and Heinen gone, and keep Acciari as an extra, rotating with Dewar.
I'm really intrigued by Matej Blumel that Pens4Life mentioned in the other thread. Led the AHL in goals, 1 point behind overall points lead turns 25 at the end of May which allows him to become a Group 6 UFA this summer.

I don't think this is a playoff team because we haven't done anything to the defense. There needs to be new blood brought in. And as much as I loved what I saw from Kolyachonok, his numbers stunk once he got moved with Letang, and that's all Sullivan will see...his numbers stunk (ignoring the Letang part).

What I'd love to see....

Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
Rakell-Malkin-McGroarty
McBain-Novak-Tomasino/Blumel
Lizotte-Ponomarev-Acciari/Poulin

X-Karlsson
Matheson-Ekblad
Kolyachonok/Pickering-Brunicke/Timmins
x-Graves

Trade Letang for Matheson
Sign Ekblad on the UFA market
Trade for McBain's rights with Utah
Sign Blumel as a G6 UFA

Still need to find a top pairing d-man to play with Karlsson, preferably a stay at home guy. I don't think Graves, Kolyachonok or Pickering are the right fit.

I tried to do a realistic lineup with what the Penguins have on the roster/system. Trade's are too unpredictable to try to make an evaluation.

I don't disagree the defense will hold them from contending for a cup, but I think they can contend for a playoff spot and possibly get it. Both of our 3rd lines will score at a consistent rate to take away from a reliance on the top 2 lines. I'm not sure about Koivunen as a defensive forward, but the other 5 of the top 6 are at least capable and that should help with the defense to some degree. Totally forgot about Lizotte but both of our 4th lines should score enough and play good enough defense. The weakness of both our lineup is Karlsson but if Pickering takes a step up, Graves does the normal 2nd year improvement for defensemen under Sullivan and Timmins can simply not suck, I think it can be a good improvement. If Blomqvist can either push Jarry or replace him we're having an entirely different conversation next February. Blomqvist got exposed, but we both know this is a chess match and he'll have an entire offseason to figure out what happened.

[Daniel]

Actually, it doesn't make sense. How anyone is satisfied with the last seven seasons of underachieving, in some cases inept leadership and out right futility is mind boggling! A seismic change needs to be made. Yet no one here seems to understand that! The overwhelming evidence is right in front of you.

For the love of God, stop it already. As fans we don't determine the outcome of anything. No team is going to purposely lose to just hope they get that one good prospect, this is their livelihood. Would you tank at your job to hope for new leadership? The Pre Fleury/Malkin/Crosby/Staal Penguins tried very hard to win, they just didn't have talent.

The window is closed, they have a top 10 pick and possibly 2 top 15 picks. I doubt we'll see a Red Wing style 15 year turnaround, Dubas is too smart for that. Trust the process and enjoy the team. I get being frustrated that they didn't get a top 5 pick, but continually debating it doesn't help. Discuss which 9th and 11th overall pick is the best fit and remember that rooting for them to lose doesn't help them lose anymore than rooting for them to win helps them win (unless you're there then you might help give them energy). It just makes you look bad. We all want the team to be successful and talking about purposely tanking has gone it's course, and then some. Move on to discussing the draft.

In the end we all agree with this.......Let's Go Pens.

We can agree to disagree, but my contention isn't necessarily to tank believe it or not. It's kinda the opposite. It's going all out ONLY when the season was already decided. Based on their play they weren't turning over every stone to accumulate points earlier in the season when they were getting blown out 6-1 to Utah. My point is if you wanna win show that level of play ALL season as opposed to only displaying it when it doesn't help anything. I 100% agree the window is closed. They're just inefficient as to how they're handling it.

And I am very much looking forward to the draft. I think we'll do well this summer.

People respect agree to disagree, they don't respect ad nauseam and you know that. It's easy to go back and forth for weeks on a message board, trust me we've all done it. Sometimes it just takes someone to say ENOUGH.

I honestly think Dubas has been pretty efficient in how he's handling things so far and I don't think we'll need the 5 year plan, or heaven forbid the Red Wings 15 year plan. I think you can define the NHL level by the AHL success and WBS has had a huge turnaround just by getting a teacher as coach and having a commitment to youth. I can see an almost total youth movement at the NHL level.

I think you'll see Koivunen and McGroarty skate at least 50 games next season. I can see Poulin getting a regular spot, even on the 4th line. I can see Broz, Puustinen, and Ponomarev being able to compete for a regular spot as well. On defense I can see Pickering and Brunicke competing for regular playing time, though Brunicke has the 10 game thing so maybe not. I can see Blomqvist being up most of the year next season.

If I told you this would be next years lineup, I doubt there would be much argument (left EK in because it'll be a really difficult trade AND the return is impossible to predict).

Rearrange as necessary, but something close to this:
Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
Broz/Ponomarev/Puustinen (rotation through the season until someone earns it-Novak-Tomasino
Poulin-Hayes-Dewar

Karlsson-Kolyachonok
Letang-Pickering
Timmins-Graves

Jarry
Blomqvist

I think that could be a playoff team then build on it for 2026-27 with Brunicke/Murasov almost certainly being a mid season callup.

My primary focus for the foreseeable future for the team is to draft and develop effectively. And they absolutely need to hit home runs with their 1st rounders. They got a very good scouting department now. Top five in the league IMO.

They are not a playoff caliber team. Unless they get Marner as a UFA you're not gonna win with your top two centers being 38-39 years old as great as they might be or were.

I look forward to trades and hopefully getting guys Like Eklund, OBrien or Martin in the draft. Kyle has proven he can derive very good value in trades. I'm a bit more concerned about his UFA signings however.

Would you agree that 3rd period losses where they had the lead is likely the reason they missed the playoffs? I lost track but it happened a bunch and I think it's because they have an older team that frankly ran out of juice by the end of the game. Getting youth up and down the lineup will help with that. The defense I posted is a bit underwhelming, but better defensive play by the forwards and better goaltending should help with that. Of course a good Karlsson trade might help also.

Not having blinders or unrealistic expectations, but I think this can be a playoff team with more youth and better goaltending. Ask me again in September of course because my biggest issue with this franchise is 23 non waiver contracts dictating the roster. If they have 3-5 places for competition I think we see a better team.

[Cow_Master66]

I've changed my tune personally to think EK won't be back. Given what he said after the season and Dubas chirping back sets the stage for him getting moved. Plus the $$ is definitely movable for the remainder of the contract.

[Michael74]

For the love of God, stop it already. As fans we don't determine the outcome of anything. No team is going to purposely lose to just hope they get that one good prospect, this is their livelihood. Would you tank at your job to hope for new leadership? The Pre Fleury/Malkin/Crosby/Staal Penguins tried very hard to win, they just didn't have talent.

The window is closed, they have a top 10 pick and possibly 2 top 15 picks. I doubt we'll see a Red Wing style 15 year turnaround, Dubas is too smart for that. Trust the process and enjoy the team. I get being frustrated that they didn't get a top 5 pick, but continually debating it doesn't help. Discuss which 9th and 11th overall pick is the best fit and remember that rooting for them to lose doesn't help them lose anymore than rooting for them to win helps them win (unless you're there then you might help give them energy). It just makes you look bad. We all want the team to be successful and talking about purposely tanking has gone it's course, and then some. Move on to discussing the draft.

In the end we all agree with this.......Let's Go Pens.

We can agree to disagree, but my contention isn't necessarily to tank believe it or not. It's kinda the opposite. It's going all out ONLY when the season was already decided. Based on their play they weren't turning over every stone to accumulate points earlier in the season when they were getting blown out 6-1 to Utah. My point is if you wanna win show that level of play ALL season as opposed to only displaying it when it doesn't help anything. I 100% agree the window is closed. They're just inefficient as to how they're handling it.

And I am very much looking forward to the draft. I think we'll do well this summer.

People respect agree to disagree, they don't respect ad nauseam and you know that. It's easy to go back and forth for weeks on a message board, trust me we've all done it. Sometimes it just takes someone to say ENOUGH.

I honestly think Dubas has been pretty efficient in how he's handling things so far and I don't think we'll need the 5 year plan, or heaven forbid the Red Wings 15 year plan. I think you can define the NHL level by the AHL success and WBS has had a huge turnaround just by getting a teacher as coach and having a commitment to youth. I can see an almost total youth movement at the NHL level.

I think you'll see Koivunen and McGroarty skate at least 50 games next season. I can see Poulin getting a regular spot, even on the 4th line. I can see Broz, Puustinen, and Ponomarev being able to compete for a regular spot as well. On defense I can see Pickering and Brunicke competing for regular playing time, though Brunicke has the 10 game thing so maybe not. I can see Blomqvist being up most of the year next season.

If I told you this would be next years lineup, I doubt there would be much argument (left EK in because it'll be a really difficult trade AND the return is impossible to predict).

Rearrange as necessary, but something close to this:
Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
Broz/Ponomarev/Puustinen (rotation through the season until someone earns it-Novak-Tomasino
Poulin-Hayes-Dewar

Karlsson-Kolyachonok
Letang-Pickering
Timmins-Graves

Jarry
Blomqvist

I think that could be a playoff team then build on it for 2026-27 with Brunicke/Murasov almost certainly being a mid season callup.

My primary focus for the foreseeable future for the team is to draft and develop effectively. And they absolutely need to hit home runs with their 1st rounders. They got a very good scouting department now. Top five in the league IMO.

They are not a playoff caliber team. Unless they get Marner as a UFA you're not gonna win with your top two centers being 38-39 years old as great as they might be or were.

I look forward to trades and hopefully getting guys Like Eklund, OBrien or Martin in the draft. Kyle has proven he can derive very good value in trades. I'm a bit more concerned about his UFA signings however.

Would you agree that 3rd period losses where they had the lead is likely the reason they missed the playoffs? I lost track but it happened a bunch and I think it's because they have an older team that frankly ran out of juice by the end of the game. Getting youth up and down the lineup will help with that. The defense I posted is a bit underwhelming, but better defensive play by the forwards and better goaltending should help with that. Of course a good Karlsson trade might help also.

Not having blinders or unrealistic expectations, but I think this can be a playoff team with more youth and better goaltending. Ask me again in September of course because my biggest issue with this franchise is 23 non waiver contracts dictating the roster. If they have 3-5 places for competition I think we see a better team.

I think another important variable to consider is some young and up and coming teams could take a decisive step forward and be more ready to compete for the playoffs themselves. OTT this year, MON as well. CLB and DET possibly next year. I think the east will be a steeper hill to climb then.

IF you look at our goal differential we were tied for 4th worst in the league. I think that's a fairly solid indicator as to where we stack up. I think we're closer to a bottom five team than we are say a bubble playoff team.

So, even if we are slightly better next season which is possible I guess, others have the ability to ascend more quickly as their young cores garner more and more seasoning. Again I'm looking at this team as a ways away unless they go hog wild in free agency. I suspect that's more likely in the summer of '26 however.

[Daniel]

We can agree to disagree, but my contention isn't necessarily to tank believe it or not. It's kinda the opposite. It's going all out ONLY when the season was already decided. Based on their play they weren't turning over every stone to accumulate points earlier in the season when they were getting blown out 6-1 to Utah. My point is if you wanna win show that level of play ALL season as opposed to only displaying it when it doesn't help anything. I 100% agree the window is closed. They're just inefficient as to how they're handling it.

And I am very much looking forward to the draft. I think we'll do well this summer.

People respect agree to disagree, they don't respect ad nauseam and you know that. It's easy to go back and forth for weeks on a message board, trust me we've all done it. Sometimes it just takes someone to say ENOUGH.

I honestly think Dubas has been pretty efficient in how he's handling things so far and I don't think we'll need the 5 year plan, or heaven forbid the Red Wings 15 year plan. I think you can define the NHL level by the AHL success and WBS has had a huge turnaround just by getting a teacher as coach and having a commitment to youth. I can see an almost total youth movement at the NHL level.

I think you'll see Koivunen and McGroarty skate at least 50 games next season. I can see Poulin getting a regular spot, even on the 4th line. I can see Broz, Puustinen, and Ponomarev being able to compete for a regular spot as well. On defense I can see Pickering and Brunicke competing for regular playing time, though Brunicke has the 10 game thing so maybe not. I can see Blomqvist being up most of the year next season.

If I told you this would be next years lineup, I doubt there would be much argument (left EK in because it'll be a really difficult trade AND the return is impossible to predict).

Rearrange as necessary, but something close to this:
Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
Broz/Ponomarev/Puustinen (rotation through the season until someone earns it-Novak-Tomasino
Poulin-Hayes-Dewar

Karlsson-Kolyachonok
Letang-Pickering
Timmins-Graves

Jarry
Blomqvist

I think that could be a playoff team then build on it for 2026-27 with Brunicke/Murasov almost certainly being a mid season callup.

My primary focus for the foreseeable future for the team is to draft and develop effectively. And they absolutely need to hit home runs with their 1st rounders. They got a very good scouting department now. Top five in the league IMO.

They are not a playoff caliber team. Unless they get Marner as a UFA you're not gonna win with your top two centers being 38-39 years old as great as they might be or were.

I look forward to trades and hopefully getting guys Like Eklund, OBrien or Martin in the draft. Kyle has proven he can derive very good value in trades. I'm a bit more concerned about his UFA signings however.

Would you agree that 3rd period losses where they had the lead is likely the reason they missed the playoffs? I lost track but it happened a bunch and I think it's because they have an older team that frankly ran out of juice by the end of the game. Getting youth up and down the lineup will help with that. The defense I posted is a bit underwhelming, but better defensive play by the forwards and better goaltending should help with that. Of course a good Karlsson trade might help also.

Not having blinders or unrealistic expectations, but I think this can be a playoff team with more youth and better goaltending. Ask me again in September of course because my biggest issue with this franchise is 23 non waiver contracts dictating the roster. If they have 3-5 places for competition I think we see a better team.

I think another important variable to consider is some young and up and coming teams could take a decisive step forward and be more ready to compete for the playoffs themselves. OTT this year, MON as well. CLB and DET possibly next year. I think the east will be a steeper hill to climb then.

IF you look at our goal differential we were tied for 4th worst in the league. I think that's a fairly solid indicator as to where we stack up. I think we're closer to a bottom five team than we are say a bubble playoff team.

So, even if we are slightly better next season which is possible I guess, others have the ability to ascend more quickly as their young cores garner more and more seasoning. Again I'm looking at this team as a ways away unless they go hog wild in free agency. I suspect that's more likely in the summer of '26 however.

Right, fix that and they're a playoff team. Fix that by more youth for energy, better goaltending, better defensive play from the forwards. Youth and more energy also helps stop the late game meltdowns. If they make the playoffs, it'll be barely make and if they miss it, it'll be barely missed. I think we'll see a lot of improvement next season.

[FLPensFan]

In Corey Pronman's mock draft, he has Eklund getting picked by the Penguins at 9. Also has Martone dropping to 7th, and Anaheim going for Mrtka at 8.

1. Schaefer
2. Misa
3. Desnoyers
4. Hagens
5. Frondell
6. O'Brien
7. Martone
8. Mrtka
9. Eklund
10. McQueen
11. Aitcheson
12. Nesbitt
13. Smith
14. Bear
15. Martin
16. Carbonneau
17. Reid
18. Reschny
19. Hensler
20. Ravensbergen

[dark_forces]

In Corey Pronman's mock draft, he has Eklund getting picked by the Penguins at 9. Also has Martone dropping to 7th, and Anaheim going for Mrtka at 8.

1. Schaefer
2. Misa
3. Desnoyers
4. Hagens
5. Frondell
6. O'Brien
7. Martone
8. Mrtka
9. Eklund
10. McQueen
11. Aitcheson
12. Nesbitt
13. Smith
14. Bear
15. Martin
16. Carbonneau
17. Reid
18. Reschny
19. Hensler
20. Ravensbergen

Assuming we keep the Ranger pick, if we could end up with Eklund and Smith or Eklund and McQueen, I'd be pretty happy.

[Michael74]

People respect agree to disagree, they don't respect ad nauseam and you know that. It's easy to go back and forth for weeks on a message board, trust me we've all done it. Sometimes it just takes someone to say ENOUGH.

I honestly think Dubas has been pretty efficient in how he's handling things so far and I don't think we'll need the 5 year plan, or heaven forbid the Red Wings 15 year plan. I think you can define the NHL level by the AHL success and WBS has had a huge turnaround just by getting a teacher as coach and having a commitment to youth. I can see an almost total youth movement at the NHL level.

I think you'll see Koivunen and McGroarty skate at least 50 games next season. I can see Poulin getting a regular spot, even on the 4th line. I can see Broz, Puustinen, and Ponomarev being able to compete for a regular spot as well. On defense I can see Pickering and Brunicke competing for regular playing time, though Brunicke has the 10 game thing so maybe not. I can see Blomqvist being up most of the year next season.

If I told you this would be next years lineup, I doubt there would be much argument (left EK in because it'll be a really difficult trade AND the return is impossible to predict).

Rearrange as necessary, but something close to this:
Koivunen-Crosby-Rust
McGroarty-Malkin-Rakell
Broz/Ponomarev/Puustinen (rotation through the season until someone earns it-Novak-Tomasino
Poulin-Hayes-Dewar

Karlsson-Kolyachonok
Letang-Pickering
Timmins-Graves

Jarry
Blomqvist

I think that could be a playoff team then build on it for 2026-27 with Brunicke/Murasov almost certainly being a mid season callup.

My primary focus for the foreseeable future for the team is to draft and develop effectively. And they absolutely need to hit home runs with their 1st rounders. They got a very good scouting department now. Top five in the league IMO.

They are not a playoff caliber team. Unless they get Marner as a UFA you're not gonna win with your top two centers being 38-39 years old as great as they might be or were.

I look forward to trades and hopefully getting guys Like Eklund, OBrien or Martin in the draft. Kyle has proven he can derive very good value in trades. I'm a bit more concerned about his UFA signings however.

Would you agree that 3rd period losses where they had the lead is likely the reason they missed the playoffs? I lost track but it happened a bunch and I think it's because they have an older team that frankly ran out of juice by the end of the game. Getting youth up and down the lineup will help with that. The defense I posted is a bit underwhelming, but better defensive play by the forwards and better goaltending should help with that. Of course a good Karlsson trade might help also.

Not having blinders or unrealistic expectations, but I think this can be a playoff team with more youth and better goaltending. Ask me again in September of course because my biggest issue with this franchise is 23 non waiver contracts dictating the roster. If they have 3-5 places for competition I think we see a better team.

I think another important variable to consider is some young and up and coming teams could take a decisive step forward and be more ready to compete for the playoffs themselves. OTT this year, MON as well. CLB and DET possibly next year. I think the east will be a steeper hill to climb then.

IF you look at our goal differential we were tied for 4th worst in the league. I think that's a fairly solid indicator as to where we stack up. I think we're closer to a bottom five team than we are say a bubble playoff team.

So, even if we are slightly better next season which is possible I guess, others have the ability to ascend more quickly as their young cores garner more and more seasoning. Again I'm looking at this team as a ways away unless they go hog wild in free agency. I suspect that's more likely in the summer of '26 however.

Right, fix that and they're a playoff team. Fix that by more youth for energy, better goaltending, better defensive play from the forwards. Youth and more energy also helps stop the late game meltdowns. If they make the playoffs, it'll be barely make and if they miss it, it'll be barely missed. I think we'll see a lot of improvement next season.

That's a lot of things that need corrected in a short amount of time, don't you think?

If you have the same core and the same coach the product largely remains stale. Nothing much changes as long as these two constants are in place. And again the Core is only getting older. Even Sid's play will dip at some point. That's why the drafting and developing angle is so vitally important.

I'm not concerned about them making the playoffs TBTH. I'm focused on the next generation and accruing and developing picks and prospects as best as we can. We have one of the best scouting departments in the league now with the addition of Wes Clark. They have to make the 1st rounders count. Which is why the late season surge did us no good as we dropped a couple spots in the draft on a team going nowhere.

[john66]

We also got to see that Koivunen and RMG are ready for top 6 roles. So there's that.

[Michael74]

We could've seen that scenario play out next season and doing so without hurting our draft positioning this season.

[BigMcK]

Each year when the draft predictions are released, it would be interesting to see how each actual Top 10 drafted player performed over a 5 year period, and rank the person / or outlet against the results of their prediction.

For example: 2021, SI ranked Yuki Nokenen as the 3rd best Center, whereas TNN ranked him at 7th best Center, whereas Hockey Prospects had him 10th. Each of the three ranked him in the Top 10, using data available to make the prediction, but Yuki only played 33 NHL games and was traded 2 times at the NHL level until he was sent packing back the AHL.

My point being, do certain prediction sites hit more frequently with their rankings, and therefore hold more esteem with their rankings / predictions?

It really seems like you can take the same top 10 names as agreed upon by those that rank players, drop them in a hat, and pick a name until all 10 names are removed, and those players are now ranked.

17 year old kids are going to mature (hopefully) and a majority of the top 10 will not enjoy sustained NHL success.

So, is there a rating system for those who rank?

Always wanted to ask...

(I don't believe Yuki Nokenen is an actual player.)

[100565]

Each year when the draft predictions are released, it would be interesting to see how each actual Top 10 drafted player performed over a 5 year period, and rank the person / or outlet against the results of their prediction.

For example: 2021, SI ranked Yuki Nokenen as the 3rd best Center, whereas TNN ranked him at 7th best Center, whereas Hockey Prospects had him 10th. Each of the three ranked him in the Top 10, using data available to make the prediction, but Yuki only played 33 NHL games and was traded 2 times at the NHL level until he was sent packing back the AHL.

My point being, do certain prediction sites hit more frequently with their rankings, and therefore hold more esteem with their rankings / predictions?

It really seems like you can take the same top 10 names as agreed upon by those that rank players, drop them in a hat, and pick a name until all 10 names are removed, and those players are now ranked.

17 year old kids are going to mature (hopefully) and a majority of the top 10 will not enjoy sustained NHL success.

So, is there a rating system for those who rank?

Always wanted to ask...

(I don't believe Yuki Nokenen is an actual player.)

I have not found any ratings of the rankers. (probably pay exists) It also seems like rankers remove previous years rankings after the draft; at least searching for previous years draft scouting reports are hard to find.

[Puck-Lurker]

Each year when the draft predictions are released, it would be interesting to see how each actual Top 10 drafted player performed over a 5 year period, and rank the person / or outlet against the results of their prediction.

For example: 2021, SI ranked Yuki Nokenen as the 3rd best Center, whereas TNN ranked him at 7th best Center, whereas Hockey Prospects had him 10th. Each of the three ranked him in the Top 10, using data available to make the prediction, but Yuki only played 33 NHL games and was traded 2 times at the NHL level until he was sent packing back the AHL.

My point being, do certain prediction sites hit more frequently with their rankings, and therefore hold more esteem with their rankings / predictions?

It really seems like you can take the same top 10 names as agreed upon by those that rank players, drop them in a hat, and pick a name until all 10 names are removed, and those players are now ranked.

17 year old kids are going to mature (hopefully) and a majority of the top 10 will not enjoy sustained NHL success.

So, is there a rating system for those who rank?

Always wanted to ask...

(I don't believe Yuki Nokenen is an actual player.)

I have not found any ratings of the rankers. (probably pay exists) It also seems like rankers remove previous years rankings after the draft; at least searching for previous years draft scouting reports are hard to find.

This sounds like something FLPF should be all over...

I get why they might remove their previous years draft rankings. Being held accountable for whiffing badly is bad for business.

[Cow_Master66]

Asked Chatgpt to show the aggregated rankings of the top 15....when I doubt, let the machines take over

Top 15 – 2025 NHL Draft Rankings (Aggregated)

Player	HP.com	FC	TSN	EP	THW	SN
Matthew Schaefer	1	1	1	2	2	1
Michael Misa	2	3	2	3	3	2
James Hagens	3	2	3	1	1	3
Anton Frondell	4	5	4	5	5	4
Porter Martone	5	4	5	4	4	5
Radim Mrtka	6	6	6	8	6	6
Carter Bear	7	7	7	12	7	7
Victor Eklund	8	8	8	6	8	8
Roger McQueen	9	9	9	7	9	9
Brady Martin	10	10	10	14	10	10
Jackson Smith	11	11	11	11	11	11
Jake O'Brien	12	12	12	9	12	12
Justin Carbonneau	13	13	13	20	13	13
Caleb Desnoyers	14	5	14	6	14	14
Malcolm Spence	15	14	15	15	15	15

Legend:
HP.com = HockeyProspect.com
FC = FCHockey
TSN = Craig Button
EP = Elite Prospects
THW = The Hockey Writers
SN = Sportsnet (Sam Cosentino)

[Puck-Lurker]

Asked Chatgpt to show the aggregated rankings of the top 15....when I doubt, let the machines take over

Top 15 – 2025 NHL Draft Rankings (Aggregated)

Player	HP.com	FC	TSN	EP	THW	SN
Matthew Schaefer	1	1	1	2	2	1
Michael Misa	2	3	2	3	3	2
James Hagens	3	2	3	1	1	3
Anton Frondell	4	5	4	5	5	4
Porter Martone	5	4	5	4	4	5
Radim Mrtka	6	6	6	8	6	6
Carter Bear	7	7	7	12	7	7
Victor Eklund	8	8	8	6	8	8
Roger McQueen	9	9	9	7	9	9
Brady Martin	10	10	10	14	10	10
Jackson Smith	11	11	11	11	11	11
Jake O'Brien	12	12	12	9	12	12
Justin Carbonneau	13	13	13	20	13	13
Caleb Desnoyers	14	5	14	6	14	14
Malcolm Spence	15	14	15	15	15	15

Legend:
HP.com = HockeyProspect.com
FC = FCHockey
TSN = Craig Button
EP = Elite Prospects
THW = The Hockey Writers
SN = Sportsnet (Sam Cosentino)

Desnoyers and Aitcheson would be nice.

As we all know, chatbots are always correct

[Victor]

Draft lottery is less than 2 weeks away

[Puck-Lurker]

Not sure they confirmed it yet, I did read likely 5 May or 6 May.

[Victor]

No date confirmed afaik. It will depend on the scheduling of the next round, as there are game 7s scheduled for Sunday 4 May