Penguins and Head Coach Mike Sullivan Agree to Part Ways

[Antonio]

I'm actually on board with the firing, I just don't think he's the main reason they haven't seen recent success. Whether it's Jarry pooping the bed, the laughable collection of defensemen (none of which are good at playing defense), or the key contributors all coming up on retirement age, the coach can't take the blame for everything.

Maybe he didn't properly adjust his system though, for the personnel. We need a guy who can build something around key offensive players in the mid-late 30s that are on the slow side and a defensive core that won't clear the middle and will turn the puck over in high-danger areas on a regular basis.

All kidding aside though, I do think it was time to move on, I just don't blame the coach for the past 7 seasons ~ at least not a high % of blame (sure he has some. I'd like to see a younger guy come in with some fresh ideas and approaches, but I'm curious if KD would have reservations against someone on the younger side, given the current roster makeup.

His place in Pittsburgh's sports lore is secure. He's a winner and very good coach. Aside from Badger Bob, who's achieved legendary status, he's the best coach to have led the Penguins.
It'll be a facinating offseason to see how all of this plays out. At least one thing is settled—Fenway Sports Group (as many believed) we're favoring and wanted Sullivan to be around for a long time and have a large degree of power. Dubas is definitely in charge now.

Scotty Bowman says remember me ???

No ****. Best coach to ever coach the penguins? Goodness.

[dark_forces]

I'm actually on board with the firing, I just don't think he's the main reason they haven't seen recent success. Whether it's Jarry pooping the bed, the laughable collection of defensemen (none of which are good at playing defense), or the key contributors all coming up on retirement age, the coach can't take the blame for everything.

Maybe he didn't properly adjust his system though, for the personnel. We need a guy who can build something around key offensive players in the mid-late 30s that are on the slow side and a defensive core that won't clear the middle and will turn the puck over in high-danger areas on a regular basis.

All kidding aside though, I do think it was time to move on, I just don't blame the coach for the past 7 seasons ~ at least not a high % of blame (sure he has some. I'd like to see a younger guy come in with some fresh ideas and approaches, but I'm curious if KD would have reservations against someone on the younger side, given the current roster makeup.

His place in Pittsburgh's sports lore is secure. He's a winner and very good coach. Aside from Badger Bob, who's achieved legendary status, he's the best coach to have led the Penguins.
It'll be a facinating offseason to see how all of this plays out. At least one thing is settled—Fenway Sports Group (as many believed) we're favoring and wanted Sullivan to be around for a long time and have a large degree of power. Dubas is definitely in charge now.

Scotty Bowman says remember me ???

No ****. Best coach to ever coach the penguins? Goodness.

Scotty Bowman - through a career lens is better. Absolutely. But, he only coached Pittsburgh for two seasons. Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years. I'd still stand by my assertion that, evaluating coaches just on their Pittsburgh merits, Sullivan is #2. Madden also laid this claim just moments ago.

[pens_CT]

I'm actually on board with the firing, I just don't think he's the main reason they haven't seen recent success. Whether it's Jarry pooping the bed, the laughable collection of defensemen (none of which are good at playing defense), or the key contributors all coming up on retirement age, the coach can't take the blame for everything.

Maybe he didn't properly adjust his system though, for the personnel. We need a guy who can build something around key offensive players in the mid-late 30s that are on the slow side and a defensive core that won't clear the middle and will turn the puck over in high-danger areas on a regular basis.

All kidding aside though, I do think it was time to move on, I just don't blame the coach for the past 7 seasons ~ at least not a high % of blame (sure he has some. I'd like to see a younger guy come in with some fresh ideas and approaches, but I'm curious if KD would have reservations against someone on the younger side, given the current roster makeup.

His place in Pittsburgh's sports lore is secure. He's a winner and very good coach. Aside from Badger Bob, who's achieved legendary status, he's the best coach to have led the Penguins.
It'll be a facinating offseason to see how all of this plays out. At least one thing is settled—Fenway Sports Group (as many believed) we're favoring and wanted Sullivan to be around for a long time and have a large degree of power. Dubas is definitely in charge now.

Scotty Bowman says remember me ???

No ****. Best coach to ever coach the penguins? Goodness.

Scotty Bowman - through a career lens is better. Absolutely. But, he only coached Pittsburgh for two seasons. Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years. I'd still stand by my assertion that, evaluating coaches just on their Pittsburgh merits, Sullivan is #2. Madden also laid this claim just moments ago.

Bowman was only here for two seasons because Lemieux and the rest of the country club didn't want him around. They thought it was possible to win cups just with skill alone, and outscoring people. We saw what they won after Bowman left. In my opinion the top three are Johnson, Bowman, and Sullivan in that order.

[100565]

I'm actually on board with the firing, I just don't think he's the main reason they haven't seen recent success. Whether it's Jarry pooping the bed, the laughable collection of defensemen (none of which are good at playing defense), or the key contributors all coming up on retirement age, the coach can't take the blame for everything.

Maybe he didn't properly adjust his system though, for the personnel. We need a guy who can build something around key offensive players in the mid-late 30s that are on the slow side and a defensive core that won't clear the middle and will turn the puck over in high-danger areas on a regular basis.

All kidding aside though, I do think it was time to move on, I just don't blame the coach for the past 7 seasons ~ at least not a high % of blame (sure he has some. I'd like to see a younger guy come in with some fresh ideas and approaches, but I'm curious if KD would have reservations against someone on the younger side, given the current roster makeup.

His place in Pittsburgh's sports lore is secure. He's a winner and very good coach. Aside from Badger Bob, who's achieved legendary status, he's the best coach to have led the Penguins.
It'll be a facinating offseason to see how all of this plays out. At least one thing is settled—Fenway Sports Group (as many believed) we're favoring and wanted Sullivan to be around for a long time and have a large degree of power. Dubas is definitely in charge now.

Scotty Bowman says remember me ???

No ****. Best coach to ever coach the penguins? Goodness.

Scotty Bowman - through a career lens is better. Absolutely. But, he only coached Pittsburgh for two seasons. Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years. I'd still stand by my assertion that, evaluating coaches just on their Pittsburgh merits, Sullivan is #2. Madden also laid this claim just moments ago.

Badger Bob only coached for one season, so it is strange to ignore Bowman for two years while including Badger Bob.

Anyways, I am glad Sully is gone. I do think he is one of the top three coaches in franchise history.

[Skatingpen]

Sullivan was awesome. Quit arguing otherwise

[dark_forces]

His place in Pittsburgh's sports lore is secure. He's a winner and very good coach. Aside from Badger Bob, who's achieved legendary status, he's the best coach to have led the Penguins.
It'll be a facinating offseason to see how all of this plays out. At least one thing is settled—Fenway Sports Group (as many believed) we're favoring and wanted Sullivan to be around for a long time and have a large degree of power. Dubas is definitely in charge now.

Scotty Bowman says remember me ???

No ****. Best coach to ever coach the penguins? Goodness.

Scotty Bowman - through a career lens is better. Absolutely. But, he only coached Pittsburgh for two seasons. Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years. I'd still stand by my assertion that, evaluating coaches just on their Pittsburgh merits, Sullivan is #2. Madden also laid this claim just moments ago.

Badger Bob only coached for one season, so it is strange to ignore Bowman for two years while including Badger Bob.

Anyways, I am glad Sully is gone. I do think he is one of the top three coaches in franchise history.

That's a really good point. I think Johnson gets a pass because he's tied so inextricably to the first Cup win. Not only that, but the entire franchise culture/attitude shift really began with him. He's almost mythic now.
A good argument could be made for Bowman edging out Sullivan for 2nd. People forget that, in Bowman's second season, that team may have actually been the best Pittsburgh club ever assembled, but just didn't win the Cup. If he won that season, he would be #2. It's a good debate, either way.

[Antonio]

Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years.

I'm genuinely surprised at why this is always said but somehow the exact same defense of Sullivan doesn't apply to Bylsma. Disco won a cup here (a huge part of the Sullivan legend) and had a better winning percentage than Sullivan. Yeah, Sullivan was here for a decade... and after the 2 cups, made it to the second round ONCE, and then list in the FIRST or MISSED the playoffs for 7 straight years!

Seriously, what is the mirage with this guy? Disco sucked because he won a cup, had a better regular reason win percentage and couldn't get any playoff success, but Sullivan is a legend and one of the all time greats because he got a leash no coach in history ever got and used it to do ZERO after the first two seasons? A total of ONE playoff round win in 10 years as a coach including 7 straight here.. One. playoff. round. win. In a decade. Oh yeah, no underachievement there.

Mike Sullivan has won 2 cups as a coach. Yes. Fact. Also in the other 10 years of being a head coach has:
- missed the playoffs 4 out of those 10
- won ONE round 1 of those 10
- lost in the first round 5 of those 10.

Outside of those 2 cups, he has won a total of 15 playoff games in 10 years. An average of 1.5 playoff wins a year, 8 of those with a team fielding Crosby, Malkin, Letang, etc. Yup. A Colossus behind the bench. 15 playoff wins in 10 years. Hell, Disco won a cup then won 4 playoff rounds in 5 years. He had MORE success in the playoffs and a better record in the playoffs overall. On paper, he's the better coach and since the paper record is apparently what underpins the Sullivan mythology, what's the difference?

For comparison, Scotty Bowman coached 5 teams to 223 play off win in 30 years and averaged almost 8 play off wins a season. Literally 2 playoff rounds on AVERAGE. Won 9 cups I think, almost 30 years apart the first and last, so there is no argument of he couldn't coach this generation or this league or era etc. Sullivan couldn't adapt to changes a few years apart let alone decades. The Sullivan worship just isn't supported by reality. If you aren't going to say Disco was a great legendary coach (and I'm no disco fan but the numbers are a great comparison) you just can't use the arguments for Sullivan and ignore Disco. There is no argument, no data, no FACT that supports Sullivan. His record as a coach in the playoffs outside of 2 seasons is absolutely TERRIBLE. FACT.

No one thinks Disco was some legend because he wasn't. He was fortunate to oversee an amount of talent that was so immense that it was practically a coin flip every year if they could win it all. Therrien was a coin flip from winning the cup also but no one puts him in this pantheon of greats. If they had fired Sullivan when they should have after the 2nd round bounce out or the first round bounce in year 4, no one would be kissing his ass as some kind of god because he wouldn't have 400 wins from sitting behind the bench failing when it mattered for a decade. Sullivan is such emperor's new clothes... people say how great he is because, oh he won 2 cups... oh he won 400 games, blah blah. So what. His career record as a coach is ****, any other organization would have fired him long ago and he wouldn't have any of the paper record he has now, in 12 seasons as a coach he's done less than zero outside of 2 of them.

Tell me I'm a jerk or whatever all you want (which I'm sure is most of the posts where the system is telling me I'm being quoted with a notification but I only saw 1 of the 4 or 5 posts from the little bell icon... probably because it's all people on my ignore list who apparently don't ignore me and I'm sure are complaining about me), defend him all you want, but at least I'm using actual facts and data to establish my point of view rather than just some argument about he's good because... stuff... the before times... most regular season whatever. I know I was one of, if not the first to be criticizing him years before it was fashionable and I know that apparently makes me a downer and I've taken heat for it for years before enough other people somehow got on board and then it was acceptable to complain about him. Sorry, I've never thought he was a great coach and frankly I'd argue the data backs me up.

[DelPen]

What always gets me is that it wasn't just Sullivan coming up in 2016, it was also finally pulling the trigger to call up a bunch of guys with him that were immediately impactful. But ever since those kids got old Sullivan has always seemed to stick with the guys he knows and had new kids on a short leash.

We had a few batches of younger players who could had done a similar youth movement even if it was just the bottom 6 but when they were called up they were on the 4th line or scratched so Matt Nieto can play. My concern for having more kids in the lineup was Sullivan not handling them well at all where a bunch got worse and the only partial success was DOC and he was clearly held back for 2 seasons. Hopefully the new coach knows how to mix kids and vets before the last 3 weeks of the season where Sully finally had to play younger players because we traded away some old ones and there were injuries.

[Maestro]

Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years

lol and Sullivan absolutely lit it up in the playoffs eh?

[Dynasty1970]

IT’S FINALLY OVER

[BigMcK]

As much credit given Sullivan for the Cup wins, he probably had 10% impact on the roster for the first. He probably had 10% impact on the roster for the second.

Afterward, he had a voice to influence leadership with what type of players he felt could excel within *his* system. His influence on leadership bought him time, and tons of cash. I wonder if he ever had an epepfany moment that he realized that he had influence on the roster of failure.

He coached a roster of talent that someone else provided. He was a new voice; eager to win; in touch with the youth; young himself. Probably had the same beats on his IPod. Yet, he also could manage ice time for the older players on the roster.

Then he grew old with his system. His record of regular season games should be attributed to the generational talent on the Penguins bench.

Honestly ask yourself: Did he change how the veterans play the game? Be honest.

[Pens4Life]

Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years

lol and Sullivan absolutely lit it up in the playoffs eh?

Yeah, these arguments are off.. Sullivan beside two cups / since 2 SC, sucked ass, 7 years of nothing.. many coaches are out after one missed playoffs, let alone two. Sullivan had 3 straight and people are still defending him. He isnt horrible coach, but he isnt all that good either. He will probably make Rangers a bit better first season, then they will slowly get worse again. If he takes the job in NY.

[BigMcK]

Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years.

I'm genuinely surprised at why this is always said but somehow the exact same defense of Sullivan doesn't apply to Bylsma. Disco won a cup here (a huge part of the Sullivan legend) and had a better winning percentage than Sullivan. Yeah, Sullivan was here for a decade... and after the 2 cups, made it to the second round ONCE, and then list in the FIRST or MISSED the playoffs for 7 straight years!

Seriously, what is the mirage with this guy? Disco sucked because he won a cup, had a better regular reason win percentage and couldn't get any playoff success, but Sullivan is a legend and one of the all time greats because he got a leash no coach in history ever got and used it to do ZERO after the first two seasons? A total of ONE playoff round win in 10 years as a coach including 7 straight here.. One. playoff. round. win. In a decade. Oh yeah, no underachievement there.

Mike Sullivan has won 2 cups as a coach. Yes. Fact. Also in the other 10 years of being a head coach has:
- missed the playoffs 4 out of those 10
- won ONE round 1 of those 10
- lost in the first round 5 of those 10.

Outside of those 2 cups, he has won a total of 15 playoff games in 10 years. An average of 1.5 playoff wins a year, 8 of those with a team fielding Crosby, Malkin, Letang, etc. Yup. A Colossus behind the bench. 15 playoff wins in 10 years. Hell, Disco won a cup then won 4 playoff rounds in 5 years. He had MORE success in the playoffs and a better record in the playoffs overall. On paper, he's the better coach and since the paper record is apparently what underpins the Sullivan mythology, what's the difference?

For comparison, Scotty Bowman coached 5 teams to 223 play off win in 30 years and averaged almost 8 play off wins a season. Literally 2 playoff rounds on AVERAGE. Won 9 cups I think, almost 30 years apart the first and last, so there is no argument of he couldn't coach this generation or this league or era etc. Sullivan couldn't adapt to changes a few years apart let alone decades. The Sullivan worship just isn't supported by reality. If you aren't going to say Disco was a great legendary coach (and I'm no disco fan but the numbers are a great comparison) you just can't use the arguments for Sullivan and ignore Disco. There is no argument, no data, no FACT that supports Sullivan. His record as a coach in the playoffs outside of 2 seasons is absolutely TERRIBLE. FACT.

No one thinks Disco was some legend because he wasn't. He was fortunate to oversee an amount of talent that was so immense that it was practically a coin flip every year if they could win it all. Therrien was a coin flip from winning the cup also but no one puts him in this pantheon of greats. If they had fired Sullivan when they should have after the 2nd round bounce out or the first round bounce in year 4, no one would be kissing his ass as some kind of god because he wouldn't have 400 wins from sitting behind the bench failing when it mattered for a decade. Sullivan is such emperor's new clothes... people say how great he is because, oh he won 2 cups... oh he won 400 games, blah blah. So what. His career record as a coach is ****, any other organization would have fired him long ago and he wouldn't have any of the paper record he has now, in 12 seasons as a coach he's done less than zero outside of 2 of them.

Tell me I'm a jerk or whatever all you want (which I'm sure is most of the posts where the system is telling me I'm being quoted with a notification but I only saw 1 of the 4 or 5 posts from the little bell icon... probably because it's all people on my ignore list who apparently don't ignore me and I'm sure are complaining about me), defend him all you want, but at least I'm using actual facts and data to establish my point of view rather than just some argument about he's good because... stuff... the before times... most regular season whatever. I know I was one of, if not the first to be criticizing him years before it was fashionable and I know that apparently makes me a downer and I've taken heat for it for years before enough other people somehow got on board and then it was acceptable to complain about him. Sorry, I've never thought he was a great coach and frankly I'd argue the data backs me up.

A true franchise fan rant.

I respect the thoughts and opinions of Antonio.

Last time I checked, (not even sure where I would), I have never blocked any other member here for their opinions on the Penguins. I luv to read any post on this board. Angry and thoughtful posts with truth make me happy.

I am pretty sure sullivan didn't kill his dog or attack his wife. The poster articulated his option with stats.

LPG needs more toughness.

Trunky?
Balls?
Huevos?
X pepper?

[Puck-Lurker]

LPG needs more toughness

We need to get to our game

I honestly don't care for ranking coaches and their legacies. Apples and oranges more often than not.

[john66]

A coach is only as good as his players. In 2021, Jarry's play against NYI and 2022 Trouba's elbow were the reason they lost those first round series. In 2022, with the way things shook out, they could've made the finals. We'll never know.

[Gunnerfan]

His place in Pittsburgh's sports lore is secure. He's a winner and very good coach. Aside from Badger Bob, who's achieved legendary status, he's the best coach to have led the Penguins.
It'll be a facinating offseason to see how all of this plays out. At least one thing is settled—Fenway Sports Group (as many believed) we're favoring and wanted Sullivan to be around for a long time and have a large degree of power. Dubas is definitely in charge now.

Scotty Bowman says remember me ???

No ****. Best coach to ever coach the penguins? Goodness.

Scotty Bowman - through a career lens is better. Absolutely. But, he only coached Pittsburgh for two seasons. Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years. I'd still stand by my assertion that, evaluating coaches just on their Pittsburgh merits, Sullivan is #2. Madden also laid this claim just moments ago.

Bowman was only here for two seasons because Lemieux and the rest of the country club didn't want him around. They thought it was possible to win cups just with skill alone, and outscoring people. We saw what they won after Bowman left. In my opinion the top three are Johnson, Bowman, and Sullivan in that order.

I know this is a common thought, but more than few journalists have dispelled this rumor that the players revolted for no reason. The real story, from local journo’s, is that Bowman was not all in with the team. Living in Buffalo I believe and not always being around and handing off all the day to days to Barry Smith and Rick Paterson.

[Daniel]

As much credit given Sullivan for the Cup wins, he probably had 10% impact on the roster for the first. He probably had 10% impact on the roster for the second.

Afterward, he had a voice to influence leadership with what type of players he felt could excel within *his* system. His influence on leadership bought him time, and tons of cash. I wonder if he ever had an epepfany moment that he realized that he had influence on the roster of failure.

He coached a roster of talent that someone else provided. He was a new voice; eager to win; in touch with the youth; young himself. Probably had the same beats on his IPod. Yet, he also could manage ice time for the older players on the roster.

Then he grew old with his system. His record of regular season games should be attributed to the generational talent on the Penguins bench.

Honestly ask yourself: Did he change how the veterans play the game? Be honest.

I think what Sullivan brought was a sense of calm and focus. To often, the Penguins would lose focus during the playoffs and have some epic meltdowns while they tried to retaliate. Sullivan brought a good system and a turn the other cheek mentality. That works well when you have small, speedy, young players that are able to possess the puck and forecheck well.

[Antonio]

I think what Sullivan brought was a sense of calm and focus. To often, the Penguins would lose focus during the playoffs and have some epic meltdowns while they tried to retaliate. Sullivan brought a good system and a turn the other cheek mentality. That works well when you have small, speedy, young players that are able to possess the puck and forecheck well.

He absolutely did a great job...solved the playoff retaliation problem by just keeping us out of the playoffs....4D chess!

[Victor]

Maybe I picked the wrong day to stay off the grid

I'm surprised he's FINALLY gone, a few years too late in my eyes. Early Christmas gift from Dubas for part of the fanbase. He was a great coach coming from half a season with WBS. He was great coaching teams without their star players to the playoffs and winning the division once, just to fall short in the playoffs when all the stars were back. Glad he's gone in the end. I doubt he will find the same level of success and lack of accoutability elsewhere. At least we won't hear the team "needs to get to their game" anymore.

I'm glad Dubas made that decision and it made me even happier to hear him say in the presser that is something that he thought about during the season. Also great sense of timing with most assistants' contracts being up. Only David Quinn will remain if I'm not mistaken.

I'm really curious to see where he ends up, even if he decides to coach next season or if he focus solely on Team USA for the Olympics. He will get paid either way.

[Daniel]

I think what Sullivan brought was a sense of calm and focus. To often, the Penguins would lose focus during the playoffs and have some epic meltdowns while they tried to retaliate. Sullivan brought a good system and a turn the other cheek mentality. That works well when you have small, speedy, young players that are able to possess the puck and forecheck well.

He absolutely did a great job...solved the playoff retaliation problem by just keeping us out of the playoffs....4D chess!

You have to admit those first few years the team was far more focused than they were between Detroit and San Jose.

[KG]

Taylor has some good, young coaching options. I hope we go this route, as opposed to a veteran retread.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/team ... -carle-tlh

[Puck-Lurker]

Taylor has some good, young coaching options. I hope we go this route, as opposed to a veteran retread.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/team ... -carle-tlh

Didn't sound like Dubas was very interested in established names, the usual suspects, at all.

Maybe some in house names have a shot, but I doubt it.

[Antonio]

Dubas will probably look for someone from Toronto

[IntangibleBeer]

Well, the Penguins have turned the page. Mike Sullivan (thank you for the back-to-back cups!) has turned the page. It's probably time for us on LGP to turn the page as well.

What's next? Well, as the Chinese proverb says "May you live in interesting times". And boy do we have a target-rich environment that way.

Whatever happens with the new coach (whoever he is) and the team over the next few years, let's not fool ourselves into thinking this will be a straight line ascension to the next Cup parade. The team still has its structural problems (goal-tending and defense). And even if it becomes (as I expect it to) younger and faster, there will be a serious learning curve.

Still, it should be much more fun to watch. Maybe we get back a 1989-90 vibe. Speaking of that, here's something that might bring a smile to LGPer's faces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kJ989YAPVU

Have a great day, everyone!

[Admin]

Looks like Mike Sullivan is running for judge.
https://www.mikesullivanforjudge.com/about