Penguins and Head Coach Mike Sullivan Agree to Part Ways

[pens_CT]

Scotty Bowman says remember me ???

No ****. Best coach to ever coach the penguins? Goodness.

Scotty Bowman - through a career lens is better. Absolutely. But, he only coached Pittsburgh for two seasons. Bylsma won a Cup, yes, but underachived in the playoffs most other years. I'd still stand by my assertion that, evaluating coaches just on their Pittsburgh merits, Sullivan is #2. Madden also laid this claim just moments ago.

Bowman was only here for two seasons because Lemieux and the rest of the country club didn't want him around. They thought it was possible to win cups just with skill alone, and outscoring people. We saw what they won after Bowman left. In my opinion the top three are Johnson, Bowman, and Sullivan in that order.

I know this is a common thought, but more than few journalists have dispelled this rumor that the players revolted for no reason. The real story, from local journo’s, is that Bowman was not all in with the team. Living in Buffalo I believe and not always being around and handing off all the day to days to Barry Smith and Rick Paterson.

The rumors that I read over the years were the players didn't want him around practices so the assistant coaches ran them. Who knows what is really true. For all of his talent Mario didn't like a coach with a strong personality. Bowman had no issue sitting a guy on the bench who wasn't giving a 100 percent effort. You have to agree they underachieved between the 2nd cup and Mario's original retirement. They certainly had the talent to win another cup, not sure they had the desire or the coach to push them after Bowman left. EJ certainly wasn't that type of coach.

[KG]

LeBrun tweeted that 5 teams have already reached out to speak to Sully.

Too bad the league got rid of teams getting compensation for coaches.

He won’t be out of work too long.

[Jesse]

LeBrun tweeted that 5 teams have already reached out to speak to Sully.

Too bad the league got rid of teams getting compensation for coaches.

He won’t be out of work too long.

New York is going to throw a kings ransom at him and I'd frankly be shocked if anyone comes even remotely close to what they offer him.

[FLPensFan]

A few odds and ends on this topic:

--The Athletic had a piece on the coaching vacancies, ANA, BOS, CHI, NYR, PHI, PIT, SEA. They listed the Penguins and Kraken as likely being the farthest away from being a playoff contender.

--Same piece listed Tocchet as a potential option, as well as an opportunity for Quinn or Vellucci. I think both of these guys would be out, and Dejan mentioned that if it were his choice, he would pick Tocchet for his openness...then proceeded to say knowing how Dubas operates, that could eliminate Tocchet pretty quickly (Dubas likes closed lips, won't like a coach that speaks his mind openly to the media).

--Dubas has also strongly indicated he doesn't want a retread. So I would expect a long-time NHL assistant or AHL coach as a bigger possibility. That may include David Carle as well.

--It was reported Sullivan wasn't taking interview requests (from teams) at this time. I'd expect that to change after no more than a week, and as Jesse said above, I think the Rangers will throw a Titanic boatload of money at Sullivan. He's been the guy they wanted for 2 years. He's magically become available. I'd be shocked if Boston or another team won out.

--Another question that was asked of Dejan was, who (player) might benefit most from Sullivan departing. He named Graves. Said in Denver and NJ, he was shielded a bit, asked to play more defense, and not pinch and rush as much here. Basically said this is not a great system for Graves. My vote would be Karlsson...if he stays. I know he is on shaky ground based on some of his comments, but I also really believe Sullivan did nothing to help Karlsson play as Karlsson. HE was another victim of playing in a system that did nothing for his skillset. The defensive blunders and mistakes are going to happen, but, if Karlsson stays, when he's on the ice with the bottom 2 lines, I'd be giving him carte blanche to create offense as he sees fit...which is usually rushing the puck up ice and into the zone.

I think the system a player plays in often has a lot more impact on a player than sometimes we think. Sometimes, these players that play well elsewhere but come here and play poorly....I think a lot of time it is a system level issue.

[dark_forces]

A few odds and ends on this topic:

--The Athletic had a piece on the coaching vacancies, ANA, BOS, CHI, NYR, PHI, PIT, SEA. They listed the Penguins and Kraken as likely being the farthest away from being a playoff contender.

--Same piece listed Tocchet as a potential option, as well as an opportunity for Quinn or Vellucci. I think both of these guys would be out, and Dejan mentioned that if it were his choice, he would pick Tocchet for his openness...then proceeded to say knowing how Dubas operates, that could eliminate Tocchet pretty quickly (Dubas likes closed lips, won't like a coach that speaks his mind openly to the media).

--Dubas has also strongly indicated he doesn't want a retread. So I would expect a long-time NHL assistant or AHL coach as a bigger possibility. That may include David Carle as well.

--It was reported Sullivan wasn't taking interview requests (from teams) at this time. I'd expect that to change after no more than a week, and as Jesse said above, I think the Rangers will throw a Titanic boatload of money at Sullivan. He's been the guy they wanted for 2 years. He's magically become available. I'd be shocked if Boston or another team won out.

--Another question that was asked of Dejan was, who (player) might benefit most from Sullivan departing. He named Graves. Said in Denver and NJ, he was shielded a bit, asked to play more defense, and not pinch and rush as much here. Basically said this is not a great system for Graves. My vote would be Karlsson...if he stays. I know he is on shaky ground based on some of his comments, but I also really believe Sullivan did nothing to help Karlsson play as Karlsson. HE was another victim of playing in a system that did nothing for his skillset. The defensive blunders and mistakes are going to happen, but, if Karlsson stays, when he's on the ice with the bottom 2 lines, I'd be giving him carte blanche to create offense as he sees fit...which is usually rushing the puck up ice and into the zone.

I think the system a player plays in often has a lot more impact on a player than sometimes we think. Sometimes, these players that play well elsewhere but come here and play poorly....I think a lot of time it is a system level issue.

Thanks for sharing. The more I think about it, the more I believe our next coach will be a current NHL assistant, or AHL head coach. Over the past 24 hours, I've seen Todd Nelson's name pop up in a few places. Kirk Muller is another. While some may call him a retread, he strikes me as the type of candidate who would be good at working with younger players.

[Sams_Dog]

Antonio post
"The guy had one basic system, couldn't adapt couldn't change, was **** at personnel management, and the apex of his greatness was achieved with a team stocked to the gills with generational and super star talent in its prime."


That's more than a bit of a stretch. Stocked to the gills? You can put Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, and maybe Letang in that category. Letang and Kessel were stars but not superstars. The rest of the team was very good to decent. Even Murray turned out to be kind of a disappointment after 2017. Sullivan had a lot to do with that team winning the Cup, as every coach does when a team wins it. That team was floundering when he was hired and he turned them around in about three weeks. No team wins without a LOT of input and influence from the coach. We don't see or hear most of what goes on with them and the team. If skill could win on its own then NHL history would be very different. I don't think Sullivan was nearly as great as the team and ownership painted him to be but he is not nearly as bad as some people make him seem, including Mr. Negative Antonio. He overstayed his welcome, yes. But he did what very few coaches have done in the last 30 years: win back-to-back Cups.


My ranking for Pens coaches is:
1. Bob Johnson - Only one year but in that year he helped turn the whole culture of the organization around. He took a team full of underachieving talent that missed the playoffs the year before and turned them into a dominant, budding dynasty. Perfect fit for the team and I honestly think they win more Cups if he had not passed away.

2. Scotty Bowman - Was around for three years, two as a coach but steered them to an incredible Cup run despite a LOT of obstacles (read "Best in the Game" by Dave Molinari to remember all the ways that season could have gone off the rails). Then took them to a Presidents Trophy season the next year. Even though they lost in round two I tend to put more of the blame that year on the players who DID kind of revolt against him and get Craig Patrick to keep Bowman away from the team for practices. I think they thought they could just turn it on when it mattered and the Islanders took advantage of their overconfidence. In any case, Bowman's history does factor in here too. He wasn't a great fit but he got good results.

3. Mike Sullivan - Suck it, Antonio

4. Dan Bylsma - Won a Cup which is huge. Also turned a floundering team around at mid season-ish. Had some decent playoff runs in 2010 and 2013. Disaster in 2012. 2011 key guys were hurt.

5. Eddie Johnston - Have to put EJ here since he coached the 1983-84 to a successful tank and drafted Mario. He also refused to do what some people in management told him to do and take the FLYERS' offer for the #1 overall pick. He told me this story at Ken Wregget's bar and I couldn't believe it. It would have been the worst trade since Babe Ruth went to the Yankees.

[dark_forces]

Antonio post
"The guy had one basic system, couldn't adapt couldn't change, was **** at personnel management, and the apex of his greatness was achieved with a team stocked to the gills with generational and super star talent in its prime."


That's more than a bit of a stretch. Stocked to the gills? You can put Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, and maybe Letang in that category. Letang and Kessel were stars but not superstars. The rest of the team was very good to decent. Even Murray turned out to be kind of a disappointment after 2017. Sullivan had a lot to do with that team winning the Cup, as every coach does when a team wins it. That team was floundering when he was hired and he turned them around in about three weeks. No team wins without a LOT of input and influence from the coach. We don't see or hear most of what goes on with them and the team. If skill could win on its own then NHL history would be very different. I don't think Sullivan was nearly as great as the team and ownership painted him to be but he is not nearly as bad as some people make him seem, including Mr. Negative Antonio. He overstayed his welcome, yes. But he did what very few coaches have done in the last 30 years: win back-to-back Cups.


My ranking for Pens coaches is:
1. Bob Johnson - Only one year but in that year he helped turn the whole culture of the organization around. He took a team full of underachieving talent that missed the playoffs the year before and turned them into a dominant, budding dynasty. Perfect fit for the team and I honestly think they win more Cups if he had not passed away.

2. Scotty Bowman - Was around for three years, two as a coach but steered them to an incredible Cup run despite a LOT of obstacles (read "Best in the Game" by Dave Molinari to remember all the ways that season could have gone off the rails). Then took them to a Presidents Trophy season the next year. Even though they lost in round two I tend to put more of the blame that year on the players who DID kind of revolt against him and get Craig Patrick to keep Bowman away from the team for practices. I think they thought they could just turn it on when it mattered and the Islanders took advantage of their overconfidence. In any case, Bowman's history does factor in here too. He wasn't a great fit but he got good results.

3. Mike Sullivan - Suck it, Antonio

4. Dan Bylsma - Won a Cup which is huge. Also turned a floundering team around at mid season-ish. Had some decent playoff runs in 2010 and 2013. Disaster in 2012. 2011 key guys were hurt.

5. Eddie Johnston - Have to put EJ here since he coached the 1983-84 to a successful tank and drafted Mario. He also refused to do what some people in management told him to do and take the FLYERS' offer for the #1 overall pick. He told me this story at Ken Wregget's bar and I couldn't believe it. It would have been the worst trade since Babe Ruth went to the Yankees.

Good explanations for your list. I think the thing about Sullivan is that he not only won Cups, he won them back-to-back in the modern era of the sport with so many more teams in the league. To do that, you've gotta be doing something right. Anyway you slice it, Sullivan should rank in the top 2-3 coaches in team history. I just don't see any other way to rank him lower than #3.

[KG]

Tocchet out in Vancouver. Have to think he goes to Philly. Would prefer we don't bring him in as HC. He would be a retread at this point.

[KG]

LeBrun tweeted that 5 teams have already reached out to speak to Sully.

Too bad the league got rid of teams getting compensation for coaches.

He won’t be out of work too long.

New York is going to throw a kings ransom at him and I'd frankly be shocked if anyone comes even remotely close to what they offer him.

Freidman saying basically the same thing. If the Rangers want him bad enough, they can and will get him.

[Antonio]

Tocchet out in Vancouver. Have to think he goes to Philly. Would prefer we don't bring him in as HC. He would be a retread at this point.

I agree with you there, although I will admit to a part of me thinking he was a good force when he was here and I think overall he is a pretty decent coach, but not what I am looking for here. Would prefer new blood all around though.

[KG]

Rutherford just had a press conference to discuss their coaching situation. He was asked about Sullivan. Rutherford said Sully wants to stay out east. lol JR always had loose lips. It’s not his place to talk about Sullivan’s plans.

[dark_forces]

Rutherford just had a press conference to discuss their coaching situation. He was asked about Sullivan. Rutherford said Sully wants to stay out east. lol JR always had loose lips. It’s not his place to talk about Sullivan’s plans.

That also rules out Seattle. You'd think there's a 95% chance he goes to New York. He's already coached Boston, and Chicago's probably too early in their competitive curve.

[Jesse]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

[FLPensFan]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

[offsides]

Boudreau like me is DEFINITELY toooo old. I want a young new blood to give it a shot.

[Daniel]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Boudreau might be a good bridge coach. Doubt Carle does this, but what if Dubas hires Boudreau as HC for 2 years then Carle is coach after that?

Or Carle as HC and Boudreau as assistant.

[FLPensFan]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Boudreau might be a good bridge coach. Doubt Carle does this, but what if Dubas hires Boudreau as HC for 2 years then Carle is coach after that?

Or Carle as HC and Boudreau as assistant.

I think that 2nd option, Carle as Head Coach, Boudreau as his assistant, would be a great option. Have a good NHL mentor for Carle, as well as someone that can step in if Carle cannot adjust and become a good NHL coach from the college ranks.

[Daniel]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Boudreau might be a good bridge coach. Doubt Carle does this, but what if Dubas hires Boudreau as HC for 2 years then Carle is coach after that?

Or Carle as HC and Boudreau as assistant.

I think that 2nd option, Carle as Head Coach, Boudreau as his assistant, would be a great option. Have a good NHL mentor for Carle, as well as someone that can step in if Carle cannot adjust and become a good NHL coach from the college ranks.

That's a good mix. I agree Boudreau doesn't fit at this stage, but it's too early for Carle and if MacDonald isn't an option because of the 1 year thing (can't remember the exact Dubas quote) it's hard for me to think college to pro coach.

We need to start a Bryan Rust to whatever team Sullivan coaches.

Rust to NYR for 2026 1st round pick

Ya know, since Sullivan loves him so much. If you want to sweaten the deal, through in Heinen and Acciari.

[BigMcK]

Whenever EJ is mentioned, the first thing I think about? Playoffs...

[dark_forces]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Boudreau might be a good bridge coach. Doubt Carle does this, but what if Dubas hires Boudreau as HC for 2 years then Carle is coach after that?

Or Carle as HC and Boudreau as assistant.

I think Boudreau is done as an NHL coach. He's just too old at this point.

[dark_forces]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Is there anyway Quinn sticks around as the sole holdover when a new coach is hired?

[FLPensFan]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Is there anyway Quinn sticks around as the sole holdover when a new coach is hired?

I'm not a fan of Quinn at all. Just hasn't had enough success at the NHL level for me. Add in that he's like 80% Sullivan's identical twin, and it's a no for me. Sounds like Dubas will give any staff a chance to interview with new coach for a position, but I'd turn over the whole lot. I've had praise for Chiodo in the past, but our goalies haven't been great at the pro level the last few years, so I think I'd make a change there, too.

[Daniel]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Boudreau might be a good bridge coach. Doubt Carle does this, but what if Dubas hires Boudreau as HC for 2 years then Carle is coach after that?

Or Carle as HC and Boudreau as assistant.

I think Boudreau is done as an NHL coach. He's just too old at this point.

I think he'd be like Jacques Martin, comes in to help an inexperienced coach for a couple of years. If he's a HC, it's just to end Crosby's career.

Does anyone want John Tortorella? He might be going back to NYR, not as a HC, but it'd at least be hilarious.

Has Mike Babcock learned his lesson regarding cell phone privacy?

[FLPensFan]

I think it's gonna be Tocchet to Philly, Sullivan to New York. Official prediction.

A name I'd keep an eye on for Pittsburgh: Bruce Boudreau.

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Boudreau might be a good bridge coach. Doubt Carle does this, but what if Dubas hires Boudreau as HC for 2 years then Carle is coach after that?

Or Carle as HC and Boudreau as assistant.

I think Boudreau is done as an NHL coach. He's just too old at this point.

I think he'd be like Jacques Martin, comes in to help an inexperienced coach for a couple of years. If he's a HC, it's just to end Crosby's career.

Does anyone want John Tortorella? He might be going back to NYR, not as a HC, but it'd at least be hilarious.

Has Mike Babcock learned his lesson regarding cell phone privacy?

The only item I like out of Torts entire coaching repertoire is that he isn't afraid to sit a vet that he feels isn't playing well. Sully could have used that tool in his toolbox, instead of being Mr. Friendly with everyone. Sully needed to be able to tell players when "they soff."

[Puck-Lurker]

I like the names Taylor threw out:

-Sam Hallam, David Carle, Mitch Love and Todd Nelson. Would not want to see Quinn (who was also mentioned).
-If Dubas is serious about not wanting a retread, than that would tend to eliminate Boudreau.

Boudreau might be a good bridge coach. Doubt Carle does this, but what if Dubas hires Boudreau as HC for 2 years then Carle is coach after that?

Or Carle as HC and Boudreau as assistant.

I think Boudreau is done as an NHL coach. He's just too old at this point.

I think he'd be like Jacques Martin, comes in to help an inexperienced coach for a couple of years. If he's a HC, it's just to end Crosby's career.

Does anyone want John Tortorella? He might be going back to NYR, not as a HC, but it'd at least be hilarious.

Has Mike Babcock learned his lesson regarding cell phone privacy?

The only item I like out of Torts entire coaching repertoire is that he isn't afraid to sit a vet that he feels isn't playing well. Sully could have used that tool in his toolbox, instead of being Mr. Friendly with everyone. Sully needed to be able to tell players when "they soff."

Sullivan definitely could do that. So long as they were young and typically a fringe player.. Sullivan's system IS softness though. It's all about taking the puck. Hard on the forecheck means retrieving the puck and getting pummeled.

Take the body? Not a Sullivan thing. Clear the crease? Not a Sullivan thing. Crash the crease? Not a Sullivan thing.

When Pens were successful there was at least some of that going on. Now theres almost none.