Penguins and Head Coach Mike Sullivan Agree to Part Ways

[bse]

Blashill's coaching style does not really fit the Penguins approach, culture and roster.

Regarding assistant coaches, we may see someone with international experience this time. There are two intriguing names. One is former Penguin Barry Smith, 72 who actually has won 7 (!) Stanley Cups, five as an assistant coach (2 Pens, 3 Red Wings) and two as the director of player development and evaluation in Chicago. However, he may be on the verge of retirement.

Another is Jukka Jalonen, 62 who has won pretty much everything at the international level and is second to no one in developing talent. He has excellent resume on playing against much more talented teams and is generally very respected. He has been aiming for a head coaching job for ages and may be ready to accept an assistant coaching duty at this point in his career.

[Daniel]

Blashill's coaching style does not really fit the Penguins approach, culture and roster.

Regarding assistant coaches, we may see someone with international experience this time. There are two intriguing names. One is former Penguin Barry Smith, 72 who actually has won 7 (!) Stanley Cups, five as an assistant coach (2 Pens, 3 Red Wings) and two as the director of player development and evaluation in Chicago. However, he may be on the verge of retirement.

Another is Jukka Jalonen, 62 who has won pretty much everything at the international level and is second to no one in developing talent. He has excellent resume on playing against much more talented teams and is generally very respected. He has been aiming for a head coaching job for ages and may be ready to accept an assistant coaching duty at this point in his career.

If Barry Smith can go a couple of years and they bring in someone like Carle for a succession plan, that might be okay. I don't think he has much head coaching experience though. Lot of assistant coaches but this might be a nice end to his career. Come in and finish SId's career while paving the way for the next generation of coaches and players.

[Victor]

Seems Sullivan took less time away "with family and not taking interview requests" than Dubas did when he left Toronto. Sure smells like Sullivan saw lots of other doors opening and decided those were better options and better $$$$. Good for him, better for us.

Let's just call it a "mutual parting" and leave it at that. But, I agree and it's good for both.

Whatever else is true...

Sullivan had poor results for a very long time now. Certainly, the team is not at 2016 levels, but more was expected. Round 1 exits and a stretch of not even getting to the playoffs. This year was a new low, being so far out.

Sullivan has been here for a very long time. For any coach, the message gets stale eventually. Complacency kicks in. From a change of scenery point of view, makes sense.

Sullivan would have needed to revert to being much more of a development coach, over any win-this-game-now. That would require playing some young dude over the Acciaris of this world, accepting that it might cost a couple of points now and then, but can pay back down the line.. Sullivan has been known for putting his vets out no matter what for years.

NYR wanted to hire him, a lot. There will have been interest from other teams. Even without communication between Sully and Rags, everyone could see he'd get hired quickly and easily. Dubas said that teams would definitely come calling for Sully.. and that he'd not block any requests.

Speculation:
I imagine there was informal communication between Sully and Rags. Nothing contractual, just a feeler, see where his head's at maybe. Sully had been on a hot seat for a while and networking is a thing. No talk of hey we would hire you if you get fired, just conversation and showing an interest.

Sully gets fired. NYR immediately phones Dubas to get to talk to their target. Dubas knew there'd be interest and is only too happy to accommodate. NYR calls on Sully, who knew Rags would probably be interested and has given it some thought already. Deal is quickly ironed out.

Salary off the FSG books and $$$ available to hire a new coach.

Everybody happy without assuming much malice.

It all happened incredibly quickly, but I would not assume there was malice. Drury and Sullivan know each other for quite a while. Sully was an assistant coach for the Rangers when Druty was still playing. I'm not sure if they played together somewhere. Drury reportedly considered hiring Sullivan 2 years ago when Gallant was fired. There was a previous connection between the Rangers' GM and their new head coach.

[Daniel]

Seems Sullivan took less time away "with family and not taking interview requests" than Dubas did when he left Toronto. Sure smells like Sullivan saw lots of other doors opening and decided those were better options and better $$$$. Good for him, better for us.

Let's just call it a "mutual parting" and leave it at that. But, I agree and it's good for both.

Whatever else is true...

Sullivan had poor results for a very long time now. Certainly, the team is not at 2016 levels, but more was expected. Round 1 exits and a stretch of not even getting to the playoffs. This year was a new low, being so far out.

Sullivan has been here for a very long time. For any coach, the message gets stale eventually. Complacency kicks in. From a change of scenery point of view, makes sense.

Sullivan would have needed to revert to being much more of a development coach, over any win-this-game-now. That would require playing some young dude over the Acciaris of this world, accepting that it might cost a couple of points now and then, but can pay back down the line.. Sullivan has been known for putting his vets out no matter what for years.

NYR wanted to hire him, a lot. There will have been interest from other teams. Even without communication between Sully and Rags, everyone could see he'd get hired quickly and easily. Dubas said that teams would definitely come calling for Sully.. and that he'd not block any requests.

Speculation:
I imagine there was informal communication between Sully and Rags. Nothing contractual, just a feeler, see where his head's at maybe. Sully had been on a hot seat for a while and networking is a thing. No talk of hey we would hire you if you get fired, just conversation and showing an interest.

Sully gets fired. NYR immediately phones Dubas to get to talk to their target. Dubas knew there'd be interest and is only too happy to accommodate. NYR calls on Sully, who knew Rags would probably be interested and has given it some thought already. Deal is quickly ironed out.

Salary off the FSG books and $$$ available to hire a new coach.

Everybody happy without assuming much malice.

It all happened incredibly quickly, but I would not assume there was malice. Drury and Sullivan know each other for quite a while. Sully was an assistant coach for the Rangers when Druty was still playing. I'm not sure if they played together somewhere. Drury reportedly considered hiring Sullivan 2 years ago when Gallant was fired. There was a previous connection between the Rangers' GM and their new head coach.

Honestly, I doubt there are many secrets in the NHL. Look at the waiver wire. These GMs know when to send someone through waivers to get to the AHL without being claimed. They do it when no other team has cap space, or roster space, or the waiver wire is overloaded and people slip through, etc.

Dubas has gotten serious about a quick rebuild and coaches never go from success to failure to rebuild to success again so this was inevitable. I think the timing was just right for this and like you said, they know one another. While it would be tampering to talk in detail, at worse there could have been a "theory" discussion. Like "man, I'm probably gonna get fired if we're a top 10 pick" with Drury replying "that sucks".

[Puck-Lurker]

Seems Sullivan took less time away "with family and not taking interview requests" than Dubas did when he left Toronto. Sure smells like Sullivan saw lots of other doors opening and decided those were better options and better $$$$. Good for him, better for us.

Let's just call it a "mutual parting" and leave it at that. But, I agree and it's good for both.

Whatever else is true...

Sullivan had poor results for a very long time now. Certainly, the team is not at 2016 levels, but more was expected. Round 1 exits and a stretch of not even getting to the playoffs. This year was a new low, being so far out.

Sullivan has been here for a very long time. For any coach, the message gets stale eventually. Complacency kicks in. From a change of scenery point of view, makes sense.

Sullivan would have needed to revert to being much more of a development coach, over any win-this-game-now. That would require playing some young dude over the Acciaris of this world, accepting that it might cost a couple of points now and then, but can pay back down the line.. Sullivan has been known for putting his vets out no matter what for years.

NYR wanted to hire him, a lot. There will have been interest from other teams. Even without communication between Sully and Rags, everyone could see he'd get hired quickly and easily. Dubas said that teams would definitely come calling for Sully.. and that he'd not block any requests.

Speculation:
I imagine there was informal communication between Sully and Rags. Nothing contractual, just a feeler, see where his head's at maybe. Sully had been on a hot seat for a while and networking is a thing. No talk of hey we would hire you if you get fired, just conversation and showing an interest.

Sully gets fired. NYR immediately phones Dubas to get to talk to their target. Dubas knew there'd be interest and is only too happy to accommodate. NYR calls on Sully, who knew Rags would probably be interested and has given it some thought already. Deal is quickly ironed out.

Salary off the FSG books and $$$ available to hire a new coach.

Everybody happy without assuming much malice.

It all happened incredibly quickly, but I would not assume there was malice. Drury and Sullivan know each other for quite a while. Sully was an assistant coach for the Rangers when Druty was still playing. I'm not sure if they played together somewhere. Drury reportedly considered hiring Sullivan 2 years ago when Gallant was fired. There was a previous connection between the Rangers' GM and their new head coach.

Honestly, I doubt there are many secrets in the NHL. Look at the waiver wire. These GMs know when to send someone through waivers to get to the AHL without being claimed. They do it when no other team has cap space, or roster space, or the waiver wire is overloaded and people slip through, etc.

Dubas has gotten serious about a quick rebuild and coaches never go from success to failure to rebuild to success again so this was inevitable. I think the timing was just right for this and like you said, they know one another. While it would be tampering to talk in detail, at worse there could have been a "theory" discussion. Like "man, I'm probably gonna get fired if we're a top 10 pick" with Drury replying "that sucks".

Yeah, just informal conversations should be fine. At least for (about to be) fired coaches. No draft picks, prospects and players are at risk there.

[thehockeyguru]

Haven't looked through the entire thread so I'm not sure if this has been touched up on but Sullivan in going to a divisional rival is also taking with him some degree of knowledge about our trade plans and overall off-season blueprint. I'd love to know how much Dubas communicated with Sullivan about the direction of the franchise if Dubas had thoughts of letting Sullivan go in season

[dark_forces]

Haven't looked through the entire thread so I'm not sure if this has been touched up on but Sullivan in going to a divisional rival is also taking with him some degree of knowledge about our trade plans and overall off-season blueprint. I'd love to know how much Dubas communicated with Sullivan about the direction of the franchise if Dubas had thoughts of letting Sullivan go in season

This is a great point, especially with the Ranger pick potentially being in play for us.
I know GMs get nervous about unprotected picks, but you have to think that they're leaning toward keeping this years pick and letting us have the one next year.
I would think, a the very least, that New York is a solid playoff team next year, and ultimately drafts much later than 12th.

[thehockeyguru]

Haven't looked through the entire thread so I'm not sure if this has been touched up on but Sullivan in going to a divisional rival is also taking with him some degree of knowledge about our trade plans and overall off-season blueprint. I'd love to know how much Dubas communicated with Sullivan about the direction of the franchise if Dubas had thoughts of letting Sullivan go in season

This is a great point, especially with the Ranger pick potentially being in play for us.
I know GMs get nervous about unprotected picks, but you have to think that they're leaning toward keeping this years pick and letting us have the one next year.
I would think, a the very least, that New York is a solid playoff team next year, and ultimately drafts much later than 12th.

Yeah all sorts of scenarios had to be gamed out regarding the Rangers pick. I'd love to know how much of that Sullivan was privy to and is likely sharing with the Rangers

[Badamski9]

Haven't looked through the entire thread so I'm not sure if this has been touched up on but Sullivan in going to a divisional rival is also taking with him some degree of knowledge about our trade plans and overall off-season blueprint. I'd love to know how much Dubas communicated with Sullivan about the direction of the franchise if Dubas had thoughts of letting Sullivan go in season

This is a great point, especially with the Ranger pick potentially being in play for us.
I know GMs get nervous about unprotected picks, but you have to think that they're leaning toward keeping this years pick and letting us have the one next year.
I would think, a the very least, that New York is a solid playoff team next year, and ultimately drafts much later than 12th.

Yeah all sorts of scenarios had to be gamed out regarding the Rangers pick. I'd love to know how much of that Sullivan was privy to and is likely sharing with the Rangers

Not sure why some people on here think the Rangers are going to be better next year. They have an aging roster of scrubs, a severely overpaid goalie, now a coach that only knows one way to play, and they don’t have the players to play his system either. They will be a lottery pick team next year.

[FLPensFan]

I don't think it is a big deal really one way or the other what happens with the Rangers pick:

1) If we get the pick in 2025, then I'd like to see us ensure we get one of the centers such as Frondell, O'Brien, or Martin, and then use the 2nd pick on a defenseman.
2) If we get the pick in 2025, the other option would be to take the best center or defenseman available, and move the 12th overall pick in a trade for the other position. Example, draft Brady Martin at 11, then use 12th overall in a trade for a younger d-man like Bowen Byram.
3) If we get the 2026 pick, then we take BPA out of defense or center in 2025, and consider using our own 2026 1st round pick with an offer sheet on someone like Mason McTavish. While the salary cap may not prevent a team from matching, a team like Anaheim could be enticed to let the offer sheet stand knowing that there is a high chance of getting a top 10 pick as part of the offer sheet compensation.
4) Doesn't matter where the Rangers pick is, we keep all our 1sts and draft BPA of centers and d-men. As much as having 2 picks in 2025 sounds nice, having two high picks in 2026 where the quality is supposed to be a bit deeper is even better.

There really isn't a "bad" scenario out of those above. Even at 11 we are guaranteed to get a decent player.....Schaefer, Misa, Desnoyers, Hagens, Martone, Frondell, Eklund, O'Brien, Martin, McQueen...that's 10 players right there. That still leaves Carter Bear, Jackson Smith, Radim Mrtka, Keshawn Aitcheson, Justin Carbonneau, Logan Hensler, Benjamin Kindel, and Cole Reschny for us to have our pick over.

[Cow_Master66]

Haven't looked through the entire thread so I'm not sure if this has been touched up on but Sullivan in going to a divisional rival is also taking with him some degree of knowledge about our trade plans and overall off-season blueprint. I'd love to know how much Dubas communicated with Sullivan about the direction of the franchise if Dubas had thoughts of letting Sullivan go in season

This is a great point, especially with the Ranger pick potentially being in play for us.
I know GMs get nervous about unprotected picks, but you have to think that they're leaning toward keeping this years pick and letting us have the one next year.
I would think, a the very least, that New York is a solid playoff team next year, and ultimately drafts much later than 12th.

Yeah all sorts of scenarios had to be gamed out regarding the Rangers pick. I'd love to know how much of that Sullivan was privy to and is likely sharing with the Rangers

Not sure why some people on here think the Rangers are going to be better next year. They have an aging roster of scrubs, a severely overpaid goalie, now a coach that only knows one way to play, and they don’t have the players to play his system either. They will be a lottery pick team next year.

The only thing that matters is I'm sure NY thinks they will be better next season.

As for what they do with the pick they owe us, I don't think it matters at all. I hope they give us next years personally, but if not, I don't think it's any big deal. This team needs everything and the more swings the better. I know some keep mentioning offer sheets, but I don't personally see the value. For one, why assume guys actually would want to sign here? Yes, money talks, but if they have multiple options, it's unlikely Pittsburgh is high on most player lists. Also, what's the point on the ice? Just stay the course and make a boat load of picks over the next 2-3 seasons. Acquire more along the way by moving what little value the team has - only considering the guys they would actually consider moving of course, not the elder untouchables.

KD has this team in a good spot for 3-4 years from now.

[Puck-Lurker]

Haven't looked through the entire thread so I'm not sure if this has been touched up on but Sullivan in going to a divisional rival is also taking with him some degree of knowledge about our trade plans and overall off-season blueprint. I'd love to know how much Dubas communicated with Sullivan about the direction of the franchise if Dubas had thoughts of letting Sullivan go in season

This is a great point, especially with the Ranger pick potentially being in play for us.
I know GMs get nervous about unprotected picks, but you have to think that they're leaning toward keeping this years pick and letting us have the one next year.
I would think, a the very least, that New York is a solid playoff team next year, and ultimately drafts much later than 12th.

Yeah all sorts of scenarios had to be gamed out regarding the Rangers pick. I'd love to know how much of that Sullivan was privy to and is likely sharing with the Rangers

Not sure why some people on here think the Rangers are going to be better next year. They have an aging roster of scrubs, a severely overpaid goalie, now a coach that only knows one way to play, and they don’t have the players to play his system either. They will be a lottery pick team next year.

The only thing that matters is I'm sure NY thinks they will be better next season.

They will be. They just hired an elite level, top 2-3 coach.

[KG]

Yuck

[Puck-Lurker]

Yuck

I don't like the word.. I hate using it but it applies.

Cringe

[Antonio]

"'No one’s entitled to an opportunity’ Sullivan gave that quote in response to a question about using younger players in prominent roles."

Nice. Love to keep hearing all the nonsense about how there is no justification for the perception that Sullivan didn't want to play young players. Not even diplomatic about it.

Not, not every player makes the most of the chance they're given, or everyone gets a fair shot, no... straight up, not everybody is entitled to an opportunity. Yeah sounds fair. Good riddance.

[Pens4Life]

Jeez! Thats really bad sentence to say as coach... Really good riddance as*wipe!

[Puck-Lurker]

"'No one’s entitled to an opportunity’ Sullivan gave that quote in response to a question about using younger players in prominent roles."

Nice. Love to keep hearing all the nonsense about how there is no justification for the perception that Sullivan didn't want to play young players. Not even diplomatic about it.

Not, not every player makes the most of the chance they're given, or everyone gets a fair shot, no... straight up, not everybody is entitled to an opportunity. Yeah sounds fair. Good riddance.

What Sullivan meant by that according to Sullivan: young players aren't entitled to an opportunity -- they have to earn it.
What Sullivan meant by that according to everyone else: young players will get the short end of the stick -- sucks to be them.

[Maestro]

Granlund netting a hatty tonight. If only the horrible Penguins” GMs had supplied Master Sullivan with players of that ilk they would have won anther Cup with his amazing, unbeatable system.

[Puck-Lurker]

Granlund netting a hatty tonight. If only the horrible Penguins” GMs had supplied Master Sullivan with players of that ilk they would have won anther Cup with his amazing, unbeatable system.

Some of this is not on the system, or Sullivan.

Like Granlund.

[Take the Body Shoot the Puck]

Granlund netting a hatty tonight. If only the horrible Penguins” GMs had supplied Master Sullivan with players of that ilk they would have won anther Cup with his amazing, unbeatable system.

That's some pretty serious cherry picking of data there considering Granlund has never been a goal scorer. What IS telling is that going back to the 21-22 season, Granlund's production has been very consistent at about 1 point per 25 min of ice time...except for his stint with the Penguins where he averaged 1 point per 65 minutes of ice time. He produced in Nashville the year before he came to the Pens, he produced in San Jose the next two years, and has produced in Dallas this year. The only place he didn't produce was here. Now we can blame Sullivan, and yeah, sure, he should get some, but everyone with half a brain knew at the time of the trade that Granlund wasn't what this team needed: we struggled with finishing, and Granlund is a pass first player.

I do envision a world in which we brought in Granlund and kept him to be the 2C as Malkin as aged and faded, but hindsight is already 20/20.

[lemieuxReturns]

Granlund netting a hatty tonight. If only the horrible Penguins” GMs had supplied Master Sullivan with players of that ilk they would have won anther Cup with his amazing, unbeatable system.

That's some pretty serious cherry picking of data there considering Granlund has never been a goal scorer. What IS telling is that going back to the 21-22 season, Granlund's production has been very consistent at about 1 point per 25 min of ice time...except for his stint with the Penguins where he averaged 1 point per 65 minutes of ice time. He produced in Nashville the year before he came to the Pens, he produced in San Jose the next two years, and has produced in Dallas this year. The only place he didn't produce was here. Now we can blame Sullivan, and yeah, sure, he should get some, but everyone with half a brain knew at the time of the trade that Granlund wasn't what this team needed: we struggled with finishing, and Granlund is a pass first player.

I do envision a world in which we brought in Granlund and kept him to be the 2C as Malkin as aged and faded, but hindsight is already 20/20.

Malkin had 83 points in the season that Granlund played for the pens. Granlund had 5 points in 21 games. But yea sure, Malkin was old and sucked.

[Take the Body Shoot the Puck]

Granlund netting a hatty tonight. If only the horrible Penguins” GMs had supplied Master Sullivan with players of that ilk they would have won anther Cup with his amazing, unbeatable system.

That's some pretty serious cherry picking of data there considering Granlund has never been a goal scorer. What IS telling is that going back to the 21-22 season, Granlund's production has been very consistent at about 1 point per 25 min of ice time...except for his stint with the Penguins where he averaged 1 point per 65 minutes of ice time. He produced in Nashville the year before he came to the Pens, he produced in San Jose the next two years, and has produced in Dallas this year. The only place he didn't produce was here. Now we can blame Sullivan, and yeah, sure, he should get some, but everyone with half a brain knew at the time of the trade that Granlund wasn't what this team needed: we struggled with finishing, and Granlund is a pass first player.

I do envision a world in which we brought in Granlund and kept him to be the 2C as Malkin as aged and faded, but hindsight is already 20/20.

Malkin had 83 points in the season that Granlund played for the pens. Granlund had 5 points in 21 games. But yea sure, Malkin was old and sucked.

That's not even close to what I said or implied, so either you read it wrong or are intentionally being contrary for the sake of being contrary. My point was that Granlund didn't perform here, but he performed the year before in Nashville and has continued to perform well in San Jose and Dallas, which points to him being a bad fit and/or not being used correctly here. Malkin is almost 39 and while Granlund's production has stayed steady since that year, Malkin's has declined each year as he's aged, and as he approaches 40, that production isn't going to magically go back up. There is definitely a world in which we kept Granlund and put him in a position to succeed as 2C as Malkin began to slow down.

[Puck-Lurker]

Granlund netting a hatty tonight. If only the horrible Penguins” GMs had supplied Master Sullivan with players of that ilk they would have won anther Cup with his amazing, unbeatable system.

That's some pretty serious cherry picking of data there considering Granlund has never been a goal scorer. What IS telling is that going back to the 21-22 season, Granlund's production has been very consistent at about 1 point per 25 min of ice time...except for his stint with the Penguins where he averaged 1 point per 65 minutes of ice time. He produced in Nashville the year before he came to the Pens, he produced in San Jose the next two years, and has produced in Dallas this year. The only place he didn't produce was here. Now we can blame Sullivan, and yeah, sure, he should get some, but everyone with half a brain knew at the time of the trade that Granlund wasn't what this team needed: we struggled with finishing, and Granlund is a pass first player.

I do envision a world in which we brought in Granlund and kept him to be the 2C as Malkin as aged and faded, but hindsight is already 20/20.

Malkin had 83 points in the season that Granlund played for the pens. Granlund had 5 points in 21 games. But yea sure, Malkin was old and sucked.

That's not even close to what I said or implied, so either you read it wrong or are intentionally being contrary for the sake of being contrary. My point was that Granlund didn't perform here, but he performed the year before in Nashville and has continued to perform well in San Jose and Dallas, which points to him being a bad fit and/or not being used correctly here. Malkin is almost 39 and while Granlund's production has stayed steady since that year, Malkin's has declined each year as he's aged, and as he approaches 40, that production isn't going to magically go back up. There is definitely a world in which we kept Granlund and put him in a position to succeed as 2C as Malkin began to slow down.

While I'm not going to argue against what you're driving at...

Granlund was way out of shape in his time in Pittsburgh. He's addressed that and is much, much improved, sure. But at the time, he was a bad fit for our system on one hand and just not fit enough in general. It happens. Good on him for bouncing back from both, but that doesn't make his being ejected from the Burgh any less of a good move.

[Maestro]

Granlund netting a hatty tonight. If only the horrible Penguins” GMs had supplied Master Sullivan with players of that ilk they would have won anther Cup with his amazing, unbeatable system.

That's some pretty serious cherry picking of data there considering Granlund has never been a goal scorer. What IS telling is that going back to the 21-22 season, Granlund's production has been very consistent at about 1 point per 25 min of ice time...except for his stint with the Penguins where he averaged 1 point per 65 minutes of ice time. He produced in Nashville the year before he came to the Pens, he produced in San Jose the next two years, and has produced in Dallas this year. The only place he didn't produce was here. Now we can blame Sullivan, and yeah, sure, he should get some, but everyone with half a brain knew at the time of the trade that Granlund wasn't what this team needed: we struggled with finishing, and Granlund is a pass first player.

I do envision a world in which we brought in Granlund and kept him to be the 2C as Malkin as aged and faded, but hindsight is already 20/20.

Granlund is playing on the top line in Dallas, a team miles better than Pittsburgh has been the past 7 years, and just scored a hat trick. Jared McCann's highest goal total under Sullivan was 14 - he left then scored 27, then 40, then 29 goals. Mike Matheson wasn't a fit - but he's a top pair dman on a playoff team this year. Was it the players or the coach? Hmmmm?

[Toke]

It was the coach. Everybody deep down knows it, whether they want to admit it or not.
Thankfully it's time to move on to a much anticipated rebuild.