LGP NASCAR Thread

[shafnutz05]

Wow, Danica finishes 10th. Was involved in that last wreck, made some aggressive moves in the GWC, and made the race. Definitely have to give props, same to the others.

[dodint]

Or it's just product of manufactured racing. It might be the only race series in the world where you can spin out with two laps left, pit twice, rejoin at the back and then finish mid-pack because there are still two laps left. I'm not going to start some big whinging tangent but it really is an alien form of motorsport. Was an interesting come down from the Pens loss, though.

[relantel]

Is that a permanent ride for Hornish? Is Ambros out of NASCAR?

Really stoked to turn this on and have it red flag 2 minutes later. *yawn*

Ambrose went home to Australia, and yes, permanent for Hornish.

[relantel]

Or it's just product of manufactured racing. It might be the only race series in the world where you can spin out with two laps left, pit twice, rejoin at the back and then finish mid-pack because there are still two laps left. I'm not going to start some big whinging tangent but it really is an alien form of motorsport. Was an interesting come down from the Pens loss, though.

If they really want the pack separated.... they'll take the plates off. NASCAR has been afraid of the speeds though for over 25 years now.

[dodint]

Thanks for the Ambrose update. When I saw the 9 spinning across the grass and into pit lane, you can understand why I thought it might have been him.

Plate racing is its own special beast. I was referring to the Green–white–checker finish though. The Daytona 500...or maybe more! In sportscar racing the time or distance limit is crucial to strategy so it's just really weird, to me, to extend a fixed distance race. I suppose since a lot of races end this way the fuel calculator guys account for that on the pit wall, though. Again, not trying to criticize NASCAR, I just don't really understand it.

[relantel]

Thanks for the Ambrose update. When I saw the 9 spinning across the grass and into pit lane, you can understand why I thought it might have been him.

Plate racing is its own special beast. I was referring to the Green–white–checker finish though. The Daytona 500...or maybe more! In sportscar racing the time or distance limit is crucial to strategy so it's just really weird, to me, to extend a fixed distance race. I suppose since a lot of races end this way the fuel calculator guys account for that on the pit wall, though. Again, not trying to criticize NASCAR, I just don't really understand it.

No, I hear you. The catalyst (if memory serves) was a Talladega race in 2004 when the yellow came out with Gordon and Earnhardt Jr side by side for the lead, and the choice of who was ahead at the moment of caution was not a clear one to those watching -- it looked like NASCAR was choosing the moment of caution to determine the victor instead of simply going by when the caution lights came out. Now, had they not already gotten rid of racing back to the flag this wouldn't have been an issue. (That in and of itself was generated from a race at Richmond in 2003 (I think) when Dale Jarrett had spun out on the backstretch close to the entry of turn 3 and was blocking the track. A number of drivers raced back trying to get their laps back from the leader, who had slowed, and NASCAR thought it a serious enough safety issue to make the rule change. So in an instant, freezing the field and the lucky dog free pass were born.

[CBear3]

It was Jarrett, but it was the frontstretch at Loudon.

I also love Robby Gordon's move at Sonoma, especially since he asked Mike Helton three times in the drivers meeting to make sure it was ok.

[relantel]

It was Jarrett, but it was the frontstretch at Loudon.

I also love Robby Gordon's move at Sonoma, especially since he asked Mike Helton three times in the drivers meeting to make sure it was ok.

Thanks for the correction, CBear. I should have realized that since I was pretty sure it was 2003 and we were at both Richmond races that year and I didn't really recall the wreck live, but we were sitting out of turn 4 near the start/finish line so could have missed it. (Most Richmond wrecks seem to be entering turn 3)

I miss Robby Gordon. He was a character. That and he got Lowe's their first win as a sponsor at the postponed Loudon race in 2001, just before they jumped to Jimmie Johnson for 2002. (In a similar vein, I miss Jimmy Spencer, Ken Schrader and Kenny Wallace)

[CBear3]

It was Jarrett, but it was the frontstretch at Loudon.

I also love Robby Gordon's move at Sonoma, especially since he asked Mike Helton three times in the drivers meeting to make sure it was ok.

Thanks for the correction, CBear. I should have realized that since I was pretty sure it was 2003 and we were at both Richmond races that year and I didn't really recall the wreck live, but we were sitting out of turn 4 near the start/finish line so could have missed it. (Most Richmond wrecks seem to be entering turn 3)

I miss Robby Gordon. He was a character. That and he got Lowe's their first win as a sponsor at the postponed Loudon race in 2001, just before they jumped to Jimmie Johnson for 2002. (In a similar vein, I miss Jimmy Spencer, Ken Schrader and Kenny Wallace)

I vividly remember Jarrett sitting across the middle of the track and thinking somebody is going to kill him.

[tifosi77]

On days like this, I feel a certain obligation to jump in the NASCAR thread and repeat my favorite statistic in all of sports.

Danica Patrick has one (1) victory to her name since she switched to cars as a 12- or 13-year old, and that came under somewhat dubious circumstances. That is only one (1) more than I have since I was 12. Of course, I do have roughly 300 fewer race starts to my name, so my inability to get one (1) win is perhaps understandable.

[dodint]

It took a fuel mileage race with half the field on another continent to get her that win. And it was, what, 10 years ago?

[relantel]

Daytona/Talladega are her ultimate equalizer. She should have had a top 3 in the 500 a couple years ago (2013) but got shuffled out late when Jr made his run.

Though if Stewart Haas can form a new team last year (Kurt Busch) and win with it, while also winning with Kevin Harvick, what does that say about the 10 team's inability to do it?

Do I think she could possibly win? Sure. Is it probable? I don't think I'd go that far but under the right circumstances it could happen. I mean, Lake Speed once won at Darlington. And Kyle Petty's first win at Richmond was because he was running fifth when the first four cars wrecked after Waltrip and Earhnardt tangled with less than 5 laps to go. (And here, Earnhardt just dumped Waltrip, and it took out who was in 3rd and 4th - Joe Ruttman and Geoff Bodine if memory serves)

[tifosi77]

It took a fuel mileage race with half the field on another continent to get her that win. And it was, what, 10 years ago?

2008, Motegi. And the race leader (Castroneves) allowed her to pass, thinking she was a backmarker unlapping themselves. (Altho the official post-race press release says the pass was 'fair and square'.) And.................... [tinfoil]it just happened to be the same weekend as the last ever Champ Car race.[/tinfoil] They actually flew her to Long Beach on a redeye and she was as studio guest with the TV commentary crew for the final ten laps of CCWS. I was at the race, so I didn't know that until I got home and watched the recording; thought I was going to throw my dog through the television. My butthurt over that knows no bounds.

[dodint]

I don't get excited about it anymore. I didn't remember the bit about Castroneves though, thanks for adding that little tidbit. Blech.

Her continued failure to be relevant on track is enough for me. I just feel that other women NASCAR races from the past get slighted by the narrative that she is the first woman to do anything in the sport.

[CBear3]

On days like this, I feel a certain obligation to jump in the NASCAR thread and repeat my favorite statistic in all of sports.

Danica Patrick has one (1) victory to her name since she switched to cars as a 12- or 13-year old, and that came under somewhat dubious circumstances. That is only one (1) more than I have since I was 12. Of course, I do have roughly 300 fewer race starts to my name, so my inability to get one (1) win is perhaps understandable.

Didn't she win the Pro/Celebrity Race, lol?
She doesn't have the talent that the media coverage would make one think she has. I have seen her juevos behind the wheel, the problem is that she just doesn't have the temperament to use them very often. Having said that, if her last name was Dillon nobody would be complaining.

Re: Motegi
I've never heard the backmarker excuse out of HCN. All I heard was that Penske didn't think they had the fuel to make the finish and that's the reason he backed off. He may have let her by, but only because he knew he couldn't run with her and save fuel. She beat him by six seconds in the final three laps. If HCN was confused, he certainly had enough time to try to at least put up a fight.
Meanwhile, if the fix was in would you really have her win a race that no more than a thousand people were awake to watch?

Re: Winning in Cup:
Those without the talent of the top teir have to take the attitude that if you put yourself in front of the door often enough, it's bound to open one day. She ran extremely well at Kansas last spring for example (the rest of SHR was lights out as well). If she continues to have the seat, and has three or four of those weekends a year the chances she finally wins one are pretty good. It's all a matter of how long GoDaddy keeps writing the check.

[dodint]

Is that the goal? To win just one? Does that validate everything she's been handed if she does?

[relantel]

Is that the goal? To win just one? Does that validate everything she's been handed if she does?

If you haven't won yet, yes, your goal is to win one. Then once you've won one, your goal is to win another. It's every race car driver's goal.

[CBear3]

Handed. Geesh.
Does one win validate the media hype? By no means. She gets covered as though she's the second coming of Juan Fangio. We'll get that out of the way right up front

But welcome to the 21st century. The PR work she has done has earned her this chance. Why isn't Leilani Munter, Johanna Long, Jennifer Jo Cobb, Milka (lol) where Danica is right now? They say there's a deep well of Saturday night racers that are talented enough to run with the mid pack Cup regulars, they just didn't do a good enough job finding the money to climb the ladder.
While it's not what a lot of racefans want to see (pure talent based performance and hiring) we all know thats not what the world is today. If GoDaddy reups it'll be because she's done a good enough job that it presents a value to them. In that is the combination of lackluster race finishes AND the PR and publicity she has created.

[tifosi77]

I don't want to continue contaminate the NASCAR thread, so........

Spoiler:

Didn't she win the Pro/Celebrity Race, lol?

For shame, wouldn't want to leave that off the reckoning, would we? I was there (and actually met her that weekend, yay), and it was kind of obvious that Tommy Kendall let her by in the hopes of a thank you beej.

But, no she did not 'win'; she was first in pro class. The overall winner was a swimmer.... who was also a girl.

Re: Motegi
I've never heard the backmarker excuse out of HCN. All I heard was that Penske didn't think they had the fuel to make the finish and that's the reason he backed off. He may have let her by, but only because he knew he couldn't run with her and save fuel. She beat him by six seconds in the final three laps. If HCN was confused, he certainly had enough time to try to at least put up a fight.

It was on the radio, less than a lap after it happened. He called in like, "Whoa, was that P2 I just let by???" (There was no pit radio coverage on TV, that's coming from a friend who was at the race) And immediately after the race when he was being interviewed on TV he said, "When she went by I realized she was the leader," and then at Long Beach (he took the same redeye as DP) he said he had no idea the car was on the lead lap.

He lifted on the back straight to allow her by, and by the time they exited the final corner (when he realized he had given up the lead) she was already 5 car lengths ahead. No way to claw that back in two laps on dodgy fuel.

Meanwhile, if the fix was in would you really have her win a race that no more than a thousand people were awake to watch?

The tinfoil part is that it was a thumb in the eye of Champ Car, and a race with minimal TV viewership is the ideal event to pull a move like that. The biggest motorsports news of the weekend was not Champ Car's last hurrah, it was that DP won a race. They not only had her sit in on the last few laps of Long Beach, ESPN opened their broadcast coverage of LB with her win. (I know that because I'm sitting here watching the race on YouTube) To be perfectly honest, the way that was handled at the last ever CCWS race is a big part of the reason why I still can't bring myself to watch IndyCar today.

And for the record, I don't believe that it was some grand conspiracy. For one thing, HCN's last ten laps were massively slower than DPs. (I think the final two laps were something like 20 mph off the pace), and when they prepped HCN's car post-race he had zero fuel in the tank, just what was in the lines. But I do think that as the final laps played out, there was a late yellow that put DP into contention, they realized the opportunity they had and threw her a bone.

Oh, and who won Long Beach that year? Will Power.... driving for Kevin Kalkhoven, architect of the mergification.

[CBear3]

I don't want to continue contaminate the NASCAR thread, so........

Spoiler:

Didn't she win the Pro/Celebrity Race, lol?

For shame, wouldn't want to leave that off the reckoning, would we? I was there (and actually met her that weekend, yay), and it was kind of obvious that Tommy Kendall let her by in the hopes of a thank you beej.

But, no she did not 'win'; she was first in pro class. The overall winner was a swimmer.... who was also a girl.

Re: Motegi
I've never heard the backmarker excuse out of HCN. All I heard was that Penske didn't think they had the fuel to make the finish and that's the reason he backed off. He may have let her by, but only because he knew he couldn't run with her and save fuel. She beat him by six seconds in the final three laps. If HCN was confused, he certainly had enough time to try to at least put up a fight.

It was on the radio, less than a lap after it happened. He called in like, "Whoa, was that P2 I just let by???" (There was no pit radio coverage on TV, that's coming from a friend who was at the race) And immediately after the race when he was being interviewed on TV he said, "When she went by I realized she was the leader," and then at Long Beach (he took the same redeye as DP) he said he had no idea the car was on the lead lap.

He lifted on the back straight to allow her by, and by the time they exited the final corner (when he realized he had given up the lead) she was already 5 car lengths ahead. No way to claw that back in two laps on dodgy fuel.

Meanwhile, if the fix was in would you really have her win a race that no more than a thousand people were awake to watch?

The tinfoil part is that it was a thumb in the eye of Champ Car, and a race with minimal TV viewership is the ideal event to pull a move like that. The biggest motorsports news of the weekend was not Champ Car's last hurrah, it was that DP won a race. They not only had her sit in on the last few laps of Long Beach, ESPN opened their broadcast coverage of LB with her win. (I know that because I'm sitting here watching the race on YouTube) To be perfectly honest, the way that was handled at the last ever CCWS race is a big part of the reason why I still can't bring myself to watch IndyCar today.

And for the record, I don't believe that it was some grand conspiracy. For one thing, HCN's last ten laps were massively slower than DPs. (I think the final two laps were something like 20 mph off the pace), and when they prepped HCN's car post-race he had zero fuel in the tank, just what was in the lines. But I do think that as the final laps played out, there was a late yellow that put DP into contention, they realized the opportunity they had and threw her a bone.

Oh, and who won Long Beach that year? Will Power.... driving for Kevin Kalkhoven, architect of the mergification.

Yep, I did see that quote recently. I also remember Michael Andretti with the same complaint after Robby Gordon passed him for his first win @ Phoenix. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Spoiler:

Will @ LBGP: Aussie Vinyards if I recall. Always loved that car.
I also think you give Champcar way too much credit. If Danica doesn't win, yes the Champcar finale at Long Beach would have had more coverage. Which is to say that it would have been on page four of NSSN instead of page 5. It's not like open wheel racing wasn't coming back to the beach. 90% of the drivers were still going to be there next year. It's just the old CART holdouts that were bent out of shape about it.
That's not to say I'm happy the IRL "won" the war. I grew up a CART fanatic, and can't believe open wheel cars don't race at Road America, Portland, and Cleveland anymore. I just think that the majority of fans were ready for it be over regardless of who won.

You want to clutter the NASCAR Thread?

The Call really exists. It's not fixed like the WWE, but you can guarantee it exists. I've talked to enough people on the inside to believe its existance. It's not as blatant as fixing the result, just a wink and a nudge that inspection will be particularly easy this week.

See Petty #200, See Dale's 500 (that's the one I've heard outright confirmed), Danica's pole, etc.

[TheHammer24]

I don't understand disliking Danica. Selling sponsorships has always been priority one in NASCAR. Dale Jr would not be driving Hendrick otherwise.

[pittsports87]

Kyle Busch was just in a nasty accident in the Xfinity series.

[shafnutz05]

Great finish!

[dodint]

Cool. I turned it on with 18 to go, immediate caution for debris, turned on Family Feud. heh.

[TheHammer24]

Busch out tomorrow. In hospital. Daytona announces SAFER barriers will be everywhere as soon as 500 over.