Where are my Gun Owners?

[Shyster]

So does this mean that CA is now a 'shall issue' state? Almost all of the 'may issue' counties are similarly disposed.

Interestingly, the CCW law in L.A. County was struck down (at the Superior Court level) last month because it required permit seekers to first obtain a quasi-permit from their chief of police.

Functionally, yes. If this decision holds up, then the "good cause" required for obtaining a California CCW permit cannot be anything more than a generalized desire for self-defense.

ffemtreed is correct that the Second, Third, and Fourth Circuits have already upheld the may-issue laws in New York, New Jersey, and Maryland, respectively. The majority opinion of the Ninth Circuit actually spends a fair amount of time explaining why those three cases were all wrongly decided. This opinion does nothing to affect those cases. If I were in Hawaii, however, I would be filing a lawsuit today to challenge its may-issue CCW law.

[DelPen]

So does this mean that CA is now a 'shall issue' state? Almost all of the 'may issue' counties are similarly disposed.

Interestingly, the CCW law in L.A. County was struck down (at the Superior Court level) last month because it required permit seekers to first obtain a quasi-permit from their chief of police.

Functionally, yes. If this decision holds up, then the "good cause" required for obtaining a California CCW permit cannot be anything more than a generalized desire for self-defense.

ffemtreed is correct that the Second, Third, and Fourth Circuits have already upheld the may-issue laws in New York, New Jersey, and Maryland, respectively. The majority opinion of the Ninth Circuit actually spends a fair amount of time explaining why those three cases were all wrongly decided. This opinion does nothing to affect those cases. If I were in Hawaii, however, I would be filing a lawsuit today to challenge its may-issue CCW law.

It's possible SCOTUS is waiting for the right case to hear so they can get a very well worded case that will then be applied to the lower courts and states. The previous cases never had a ruling that destroyed the concept of may issue like this. To my knowledge SCOTUS has never heard an appeal yet to may vs shall issue. It's been recently just about general bans and that you must have some type of ability to carry outside your home.

[tifosi77]

Has there been any sort of injunction that would prevent the may/shall crossover, pending said SCOTUS review?

[DelPen]

Has there been any sort of injunction that would prevent the may/shall crossover, pending said SCOTUS review?

I think the AG has a certain number of days to appeal. Happened in Illinois too I think. She has three options, ask for an En Banc review of the full circuit, if she thinks the entire court will disagree with the decision that's the safest for her, appeal to SCOTUS, which I hope so we can hopefully get this settled, or accept it which is great for CA but will have no impact on any other states.

[tifosi77]

If she goes for an en banc review, I do not think this opinion will control for long. 2/3 of the sitting judges are D appointees, but I'm not sure of their ruling history.

[mac5155]

:drool:

[viva la ben]

The "stock" on that probably isn't extendable. It would make a great rifle for my 8 year olds.

[mac5155]

it's not - SigTac Arm brace.

[Shyster]

The "stock" on that probably isn't extendable. It would make a great rifle for my 8 year olds.

It must be. I can't think of how that would quality as a pistol otherwise.

[viva la ben]

I've seen lots of pistols built on the ar platform, and there is usually a tube sticking out the back end 6" to contain the buffer.

[Shyster]

I think the AG has a certain number of days to appeal. Happened in Illinois too I think. She has three options, ask for an En Banc review of the full circuit, if she thinks the entire court will disagree with the decision that's the safest for her, appeal to SCOTUS, which I hope so we can hopefully get this settled, or accept it which is great for CA but will have no impact on any other states.

There is an interesting slant to this case that I read in an article. The defendants in this case were San Diego County and the SD Sheriff. The state was not a defendant, and the Ninth Circuit's opinion did not strike down or declare any state statute unconstitutional. The only thing the court held was unconstitutional was the SD Sheriff's interpretation of the phrase "good cause" in the statute. While I'm sure the California AG (who is anti-gun) would like to step in and handle the matter, I question whether she has standing to do so because the constitutionality of a state law is not in question. I would think the question of appeal would be up to San Diego. Do they really want to fight it? There is precedent for letting go. Illinois and the city of Chicago did not appeal the Moore v. Madigan case to the Supreme Court.

[DelPen]

Good catch.

[DelPen]

Orange County sherrif in CA is following the Peruta ruling and not requiring an applicant to show good cause.

[Shyster]

I bet tifosi would know, but I want to say that Orange County is one of the few populous parts of California that could actually be considered conservative, although I want to say that trend has been fading fast. The biggest test in the state is going to be San Francisco. Almost a million people live in the consolidated city/county of San Francisco, and according to the last data I saw precisely zero people had been issued CCW permits. They simply don't give them to anyone.

[tifosi77]

We call it 'going behind The Orange Curtain' when you leave LA for the OC. It is..... different.

The OC does have a history of being pretty conservative (Richard Nixon was born there, fwiw), and it is still considered to be a conservative bastion. However, you are right that the conservativeness of the county has been waning in recent years; I think they're down to ~40% registered R voters now, and white people are a minority.

Used to be home to Marine Corps Air Station El Torro (of "Independence Day" fame), but the base closed in 1997 and the 3rd MAW moved to Miramar (near San Diego) after that base was transferred from the Navy to the Corps. A large chunk of the reliably conservative population went with it. But the bulk of the shift is simply changing demographics.

The OC is sort of a microcosm of California as a whole, actually. In my lifetime, CA used to be reliably purple (if not outright red). Now, after losing all 8 statewide elections in 2010, the GOP is actually having a hard time even recruiting candidates to run. This is compounded by our primary system, where the top two vote getters (regardless of part affiliation) advance to the general election ballot. So it's entirely possible that many statewide offices will be contested between two Democrats in November.

Almost a million people live in the consolidated city/county of San Francisco, and according to the last data I saw precisely zero people had been issued CCW permits. They simply don't give them to anyone.

I don't know if that's better or worse than L.A. There are currently ~340 active CCW permits in a county of nearly 10 million; adjacent Kern County has fewer than 1 million residents, but has issued over 3,500 CCW permits. Making matters worse, of the 340+ active CCW permits out there, over two dozen of them are held by people who are friends of or political donors to (now ex-) Sheriff Lee Bacca. And of the 120-odd permit applications that were rejected in 2012, only one was a Bacca donor.

I told my wife the other night that now might be a good time to apply for a permit, even if she has no intention of ever carrying.

[Shyster]

I don't think a reversal of the panel decision would result in the sheriff being able to rescind the permits granted in the meantime, so I agree this is one of those get-it-while-the-getting's-good situations.

[DelPen]

SD Sheriff will not appeal the ruling. I would say if any other county has a resident challenge then the courts must strike down shall issue since the highest court that oversees their laws so far agreed that you don't need to show specific cause.

[Chefpatrick871]

Anyone have asuggestion on where to take older guns to be restored/repaired in the Pittsburgh area? Found a Japanese Arisaka Type 38 carbine and a German Mauser K98 carbine at my grandparents house. Both appear to be in good condition, would like to find out if they are safe to fire.

[Shyster]

I wouldn't have either restored because they are probably worth more in original condition. I believe Braverman's in Wilkinsburg has a resident gunsmith who could look those over for you. Not sure about other shops. I want to say Gander Mountain also offers gunsmithing services. Sounds like two great finds! (Although finding 6.5x50mm Arisaka ammo may be tough.)

[Chefpatrick871]

I wouldn't have either restored because they are probably worth more in original condition. I believe Braverman's in Wilkinsburg has a resident gunsmith who could look those over for you. Not sure about other shops. I want to say Gander Mountain also offers gunsmithing services. Sounds like two great finds! (Although finding 6.5x50mm Arisaka ammo may be tough.)

I think restore was an improper word. Inspect, professional cleaning is more what I'm looking for. Would like to eventually display them.

[SoupOrSam]

Don't ever screw with a gun's patina. Ever.

Ever.

Ever.

[Shyster]

I have a gun peeve. I'd really like to buy a .32 caliber revolver, for example a .327 Federal or a .32 H&R Magnum, in stainless steel with adjustable sights and a 3–4″ barrel. Ruger and S&W have discontinued all of their .32 caliber models. There’s certainly a demand out there. A NIB S&W Model 631, which meets my requirements and is chambered in .32 H&R, currently has a “buy it now” price on Gunbroker of $1,695, and a blued Model 16-4 has a starting price of $1,250. Make more of these things!

[mac5155]

I almost bought an unfired digital camo browning hi power off a private seller yesterday for $600. It came with 300 rounds of 9mm. I backed out when he started to sound shady, man that would've been a great deal.

[DelPen]

9th Circuit overturned Yolo counties May issue policies yesterday.

[tifosi77]

Since the OC sheriff began following a 'shall issue' standard, pursuant to the 9th circuit ruling in the San Diego case, they have received more CCW permit requests than in the previous two calendar years combined.