Game 9 vs Ducks - Thoughts from the morning after

[Three Stars]

- So…that happened.
- EK needs to have the awareness not to make that last pass. A penalty is expiring, a guy is coming out of the box…so don’t force a pass through the middle and through a defender. Bad decision making seems to be the underlying theme for a lot of what’s going wrong.
- It’s not like I expected Jarry to save that breakaway based on his recent performance, but he shouldn’t have been put in that situation in the first place.
- If you follow the analytics, the Penguins are outchancing their opponents like crazy…but can’t finish worth a darn. As I’ve commented before, it’s downright bizarre how bad they are actually putting the puck in the net with grade A chances. Imagine missing a 2 foot putt 9 chances out of 10. That’s how bad.
- If you prefer mundane stats, they’re winning faceoffs at an astounding rate, so…yay?
- The goalie interference call was the worst I can recall, basically ever. It was that bad. If it had happened in reverse this place would be melting down even worse than usual.
- Either the #1 power play guys are receiving really bad tactics from Todd Rierdan, or they’re ignoring the tactics and just deciding on their own to do what they’re doing, which is awful. Having Geno and EK fire away is fine and great, but not as a spectator sport for the other 3 guys.
- The 1996-97 Pens started 2-8 and still made the playoffs. This season started in the same fashion as that one. I hate Petr Klima to this day.

[DelPen]

You nailed the issue with the coaching on assessing the PP, this is what they are told to do or they aren’t listening to the coaches. I don’t see any middle ground especially when Sullivan keeps saying he’s seeing good things.

If this team isn’t out of the basement a week from now Sullivan has to go. The only thing saving him now I think are other teams having bad starts like Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary and Ottawa who all also had much higher expectations so the Pens aren’t alone.

[Three Stars]

https://jhanhky.substack.com/p/fixing-t ... h-penguins

Jack Han’s got some ideas. It has to do with what they did against Colorado vs what they’ve been doing against other teams.

[penny lane]

11 points for Evgeni and 10 for Sid.
It may be distasteful, but Sullivan has to actually coach lines 3/4 too. Defense also.
First time I heard Jarry dare blame himself post game. “Frustrating,” Jarry said. “Obviously, I need to be better. That’s the bottom line. The guys need a save there at the end or on one of the other [Ducks goals].” FROM PG

[Puck-Lurker]

https://jhanhky.substack.com/p/fixing-t ... h-penguins

Jack Han’s got some ideas. It has to do with what they did against Colorado vs what they’ve been doing against other teams.

Yep, this seems almost a necessity now. Can't magically become younger without roster changes, but you can definitely play smarter.

What annoys me about Pens rn offensively is that they get the puck in and it exits the zone quicker than it got in, easily. And then everyone has to race back. We don't have the speed for that. Much better if a dumped puck cant be cleared so easily. Slow the game down.

We have some terrific passers and some excellent finishers (who aren't all getting it done as is).

I didn't cry for Zohora when he got sent down, but he's showing why he should play at least.

[KG]

Clearly a game they should have won. But that's not saying much. They should certainly beat the Ducks at home. But yet again they failed to finish and their goalie failed to make a big save. And yet again the power play went back to their old perimeter tricks with the game on the line. After they called a timeout and drew up a play!

It's painfully obvious, beyond the point actually, that this team has tuned out their coach. They play the way they want to play and their is zero repercussions, unless your POJ apparently.

Sit Carter, get Acciari off 4C and move him to wing already, get Z on the power play and park the big boy in front of the net and feed EK for point bombs. Everyone else, stay out of the way and clean up the garbage. Do something to get Rakell going. He historically doesn't work well with Geno, but let's just keep him there because Sully knows better then everyone.

If they aren't going to play Hinostroza, bring up Poulin or White to play 4C so Acciari can go to wing and Carter can sit.

And for the love of God, can Jake maybe take one shift not on Sid's line? the team is stale, switch it up. Smith-Crosby-Rakell . Jake- Geno- Rust. Rolling the same lines out there because the coach has his heart set on them isn't the answer. You have to adjust.

This team is still trying to win, I don't see how they go too long and dig too far of a hole without changes. Assuming the window (however close to shut it is) is 2 seasons. Bring in a veteran coach just for the sake of a new voice at this point.

I'm not upset because we are spoiled and won 3 cups, but I am annoyed that they aren't being held accountable, from the players to Sullivan. Dubas is going to have to start making some tough decisions soon here. And no, not all is right in the world if they beat the Sharks.

[Antonio]

Agreed on how bad that call was. I was beside myself at how terrible it was. Like I said last night, on that goal alone, I was actually happy the Ducks won because frankly, they deserved to and would have had likely been clearly in the lead all game had that goal not been taken. I would have an aneurysm if that had gone against us so what is right is right.

All the talk of this needs to change, this style needs to change, this player needs to...seriously? Who thinks any of that is happening? What, after 4, 5, 7 years of the same exact **** every single night, the same roster, the same pig headed idiocy, suddenly that imbecile is going to make changes? Please. Until he is fired like he needed to be 4 years ago, nothing is changing. Please don't quote things like generational players like 87 and 71 still putting up points as even the smallest proof that Sullivan is doing anything right. I could coach this team and 87 would still put up points. Amazing how people like me were in such a crazy, lunatic minority for the last few years with the Sullivan is not a good coach mantra and here the whole world has finally woken up and gotten out the pitchforks. To me, the "coaching" shows where the entire 4th line has 0 points in 9 games. I don't frankly know if you could do that intentionally. The utter mess that is the PP. The same ineffective players, lines, combinations being played endlessly. The angry responses to interviewers asking even a little challenging question about if he thinks he should change something. The acquisition and removal of players from the lineup with "his" input that turn out to be a mess/succeed elsewhere. Players who just leave the organization and the NHL because he won't even give them a shot, despite their having definitely earned it. The attempts to "teach" players like the best offensive D man in the last 20+ years how to be better (read, what Sullivan wants) and in the process making him not good at anything. Winning a cup does not make you a good coach. No one defends or thinks Disco Dan is any kind of good and he can't find an NHL job...wonder why. He won a Jack Adams and a cup for chrissakes...pretty sure he was the fastest coach to 200 wins or something also...and he gone. Winning behind the bench when you have 71, 87, 58 in their primes is a less than 0 statement on your quality as a coach.

Not surprising for a guy who came here with a lifetime 70W 79L 15T (56L 23OTL) coaching record, missing the playoffs one time out of two seasons, and 0 career playoff series wins. Impressive. Take out the first 1.5 seasons that he has been milking his entire career, where he walked into team of prime age mega stars, and his career playoff record as a coach is 15-25 in 6 years and 2 years of not making the playoffs. Oh man, what a resume. I desperately want the unsupported and unjustified NHL nonsense mantra of "he's a good coach, just not here/his time is up/etc etc" to stop. People repeat it all over the league because other people say it and those people say it because, well he "won 2 cups...or something" they recall. Not because they can point to any real reason he is a good coach. Take away a high talent team that could win on its own and he can't do a damn thing. Never has in his entire career as a coach. Can't out-coach other teams, can't adapt, can't innovate, has 1 system he knows without change, has no player accountability, is stubborn/defensive/argumentative when questioned even a little about his endless failures, does not manage players or give them chances/consequences when they earn them, etc etc etc. Basically as this team got older every year after the success years, they got worse. Every year, a little worse for the most part, until finally even 87 and 71 were too old to single-handedly cover up his inadequacies. He can't hide it anymore behind star talent, because they can no longer put up a winning regular season to paper over his low quality worthless coaching, so now he has been exposed the last few years, especially the last couple. I am so sick of his face at this stage I enrages me, because he has basically robbed me of being able to enjoy my hockey team with his ****.

I have actually enjoyed Z and the third line the most. Probably the only line that has been fun and interesting to watch most of the time.

[IntangibleBeer]

Now that my blood pressure has returned to quasi-normal (and it took all night), here are my thoughts:

• Antonio is correct - that goaltender interference call was incredibly bad.
• The Pens desperately need a net front presence. It isn't Guentzel or Rakell. They're snipers and that's how they should be used. IF (and it's a big IF) Carter would / could fill that role it would be a reason to keep him. Otherwise, he needs to be eating nachos until his contract expires.
• Jarry. Trade him. For anything. A bag of pucks, a free flashlight from Harbor Freight - just get him outta here.
• HCMS has run his course. They're not listening to him and it's time for a clean sweep. Last night someone (I apologize for not remembering) correctly stated that players who came here had slowly dropped their level of play under Sullivan's "system". I agree. And I also think these players will recover and return to form under a new coaching staff. I appreciate what he's done, but it's time for him to go.

[Antonio]

[*]Jarry. Trade him. For anything. A bag of pucks, a free flashlight from Harbor Freight - just get him outta here.

Ok I admit it, I laughed out loud at this. If there were upvotes, Reddit style, I would be throwing them at you.

[pronovost19]

Certainly, the Ducks had one taken away. That is a goal. Hard to think that breathing on a goalie is interference.The goal that disturbed me more than the eventual game winner was the third goal they scored. You want to see why the team struggles, watch that sequence again. Big Z and Eller have some chemistry and DOC is the speed element of that line. Eller probably played his best game as a Penguin last night. Sullivan started his third line last night. That says a lot about the state of affairs. PK has looked better.

[largegarlic]

I think the Pens tied themselves to Jarry with that contract. Over the summer, I was ok re-signing Jarry, because there really weren't clearly better options, but I was hoping he'd get either a raise or term in his new contract, not both, so as to mitigate the downside if his play didn't improve (and it hasn't). So, given that, I think they need to bring in a new coach who will implement a more defensive system to try to see if Jarry can be a workable option, if he's insulated a bit more.

[IntangibleBeer]

Oh, and the announcers / intermission hosts - I'm not impressed with the changes. Caufield and Hunter need to go; Potash needs to be doing player interviews - it's his strength. Trottier? Jury's out on him. Errey was an asset.

[Fast B]

I'm still floored by that shorty to end it. At least with Fleury back there you could be confident he could stop a breakaway, especially when it counted (looking at you, Ovechkin).

Not sure what else to say about the power play, it's embarrassing even by the Pens' recent standards.

[Antonio]

Oh, and the announcers / intermission hosts - I'm not impressed with the changes. Caufield and Hunter need to go; Potash needs to be doing player interviews - it's his strength. Trottier? Jury's out on him. Errey was an asset.

Yeah I didn't not care for Trottier at all. Thought to myself, what is he doing here? I never disliked Errey like so many did.

[Wyopen]

Since a good number of you are blaming Jarry for these losses, I seem to recall in the preseason everyone saying we’re going to have to win games by 6-5 or 7-6 now. Where’s the 7 or the 6? Evidently the offense is not holding up their end.

[Three Stars]

Since a good number of you are blaming Jarry for these losses, I seem to recall in the preseason everyone saying we’re going to have to win games by 6-5 or 7-6 now. Where’s the 7 or the 6? Evidently the offense is not holding up their end.

I’m not down with blaming the goaltender when the team is surrendering shorthanded breakaways, or outnumbered rushes of any kind. Somehow the expectation that those chances should be saved got normalized over time during the Fleury years. “Sometimes you need the goalie to make a save” in a situation like the GWG is a lazy assumption.

That said, it doesn’t absolve Jarry’s performance lately. He’s giving up bad goals on low danger shots.

For sure, it’s the lack of finishing that’s allowing the other problems to become big problems. How does one fix the ability to make one’s shots go in more often?

[BigMcK]

Emotionally charged Ducks coach (rightfully so after the goalie interference call), tossed from the game at the end of the second period, was not present for the third period, and yet Ducks players didn't all of the sudden forget how to play hockey. Penguins coach was still behind the bench during the third period, and Penguins players didn't look like they were on the same page, save the third line.

With the upcoming travel week next week, I would imagine Penguins coach is safe, based on how difficult it would be to introduce the teams new coach to the team while on the road. However, once they are back home, change may be a coming...

Tip of the cap to the third line.

[IntangibleBeer]

Since a good number of you are blaming Jarry for these losses, I seem to recall in the preseason everyone saying we’re going to have to win games by 6-5 or 7-6 now. Where’s the 7 or the 6? Evidently the offense is not holding up their end.

Interesting you should mention winning high scoring games. I recall that Tom Barrasso once won a game despite facing 65 shots on goal. Yeah, 65 SOG in regulation play. Jarry might be wearing Tom's old number (which in all decency they should retire), but there the similarity ends. The Penguin teams of the late 80's and early 90's were notoriously porous defensively.

But you are correct, the goals are not coming in bunches. I do think that can be turned around, though. But not with this coach.

[DelPen]

Am I the only one that agreed with the no goal call because there player came into the crease to push our guy into Jarry which impeded him hypothetically making a save? It certainly wasn’t the worst call I have ever seen.

[Maestro]

The morning after and I'm thinking the Jarry signing might be the final nail in this team's coffin.
No way this team improves under Sullivan. 5+ years and 3rd GM later and we're still waiting. But everyone in the org. loves him and he has a new contract after the one he is currently under already set - so... Owners are going to have to take a loss there - or a continued, growing loss at the turnstile.

Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results may be a sign of perseverance, but at this point, with this team, it is pure insanity.

[Coffey Break]

Am I the only one that agreed with the no goal call because there player came into the crease to push our guy into Jarry which impeded him hypothetically making a save? It certainly wasn’t the worst call I have ever seen.

You and me both. Ticky-tacky? Sure. But the right call in the end. Carrick parked himself in the blue crease before the shot even got there. You have to allow the goalie his territory and opportunity to make the save. It's not like Carrick did a fly-by through the crease, etc...he was literally in the way of Jarry being able to get out on top of the crease. And yes, I would have thought the same if it were the other way around.

As others have mentioned, the Pens finding themselves a third line would be a massive development in the right direction. They were energetic, fast, and kept the puck in the O-Zone.

I don't trust this coach to make any real changes. Sounds like something we're going to have to just ride out and see where the dominoes fall.

[Coffey Break]

Agreed on how bad that call was. I was beside myself at how terrible it was. Like I said last night, on that goal alone, I was actually happy the Ducks won because frankly, they deserved to and would have had likely been clearly in the lead all game had that goal not been taken. I would have an aneurysm if that had gone against us so what is right is right.

All the talk of this needs to change, this style needs to change, this player needs to...seriously? Who thinks any of that is happening? What, after 4, 5, 7 years of the same exact **** every single night, the same roster, the same pig headed idiocy, suddenly that imbecile is going to make changes? Please. Until he is fired like he needed to be 4 years ago, nothing is changing. Please don't quote things like generational players like 87 and 71 still putting up points as even the smallest proof that Sullivan is doing anything right. I could coach this team and 87 would still put up points. Amazing how people like me were in such a crazy, lunatic minority for the last few years with the Sullivan is not a good coach mantra and here the whole world has finally woken up and gotten out the pitchforks. To me, the "coaching" shows where the entire 4th line has 0 points in 9 games. I don't frankly know if you could do that intentionally. The utter mess that is the PP. The same ineffective players, lines, combinations being played endlessly. The angry responses to interviewers asking even a little challenging question about if he thinks he should change something. The acquisition and removal of players from the lineup with "his" input that turn out to be a mess/succeed elsewhere. Players who just leave the organization and the NHL because he won't even give them a shot, despite their having definitely earned it. The attempts to "teach" players like the best offensive D man in the last 20+ years how to be better (read, what Sullivan wants) and in the process making him not good at anything. Winning a cup does not make you a good coach. No one defends or thinks Disco Dan is any kind of good and he can't find an NHL job...wonder why. He won a Jack Adams and a cup for chrissakes...pretty sure he was the fastest coach to 200 wins or something also...and he gone. Winning behind the bench when you have 71, 87, 58 in their primes is a less than 0 statement on your quality as a coach.

Not surprising for a guy who came here with a lifetime 70W 79L 15T (56L 23OTL) coaching record, missing the playoffs one time out of two seasons, and 0 career playoff series wins. Impressive. Take out the first 1.5 seasons that he has been milking his entire career, where he walked into team of prime age mega stars, and his career playoff record as a coach is 15-25 in 6 years and 2 years of not making the playoffs. Oh man, what a resume. I desperately want the unsupported and unjustified NHL nonsense mantra of "he's a good coach, just not here/his time is up/etc etc" to stop. People repeat it all over the league because other people say it and those people say it because, well he "won 2 cups...or something" they recall. Not because they can point to any real reason he is a good coach. Take away a high talent team that could win on its own and he can't do a damn thing. Never has in his entire career as a coach. Can't out-coach other teams, can't adapt, can't innovate, has 1 system he knows without change, has no player accountability, is stubborn/defensive/argumentative when questioned even a little about his endless failures, does not manage players or give them chances/consequences when they earn them, etc etc etc. Basically as this team got older every year after the success years, they got worse. Every year, a little worse for the most part, until finally even 87 and 71 were too old to single-handedly cover up his inadequacies. He can't hide it anymore behind star talent, because they can no longer put up a winning regular season to paper over his low quality worthless coaching, so now he has been exposed the last few years, especially the last couple. I am so sick of his face at this stage I enrages me, because he has basically robbed me of being able to enjoy my hockey team with his ****.

I have actually enjoyed Z and the third line the most. Probably the only line that has been fun and interesting to watch most of the time.

This is quite literally entirely spot on. Only thing to add is that, much like the other coach in Pittsburgh, this one is also getting awfully used to either: 1) saying the same things over and over again after every loss or 2) Putting words in a salad mixer and hoping the media chews it up

Saw something from Getzoff where HCMS actually suggested today that Carter and the 4th line have had strong moments and they believe it's a line that can capture momentum. I mean.....I get you're not throwing your team/players under the bus....but this is just straight insult to everyone's intelligence. I don't even know if we (as fans) are watching the same game this guy is behind the bench anymore.

[FLPensFan]

And yet Acciari, Carter, and Nieto are the only 3 active forwards on the roster who:

--are getting outshot at 5v5
--are on the wrong side of total shot attempts
--are getting outchanced
--don't have a single point

Outshot, outchanced, losing side of shot attempts, zero production. Sullivan realizes that the 4th line should be capturing momentum for HIS TEAM, right?

[DelPen]

And yet Acciari, Carter, and Nieto are the only 3 active forwards on the roster who:

--are getting outshot at 5v5
--are on the wrong side of total shot attempts
--are getting outchanced
--don't have a single point

Outshot, outchanced, losing side of shot attempts, zero production. Sullivan realizes that the 4th line should be capturing momentum for HIS TEAM, right?

There is a very easy way to address that. Dubas made it possible for Sullivan to fix it yet he has refused.

[KG]

Am I the only one that agreed with the no goal call because there player came into the crease to push our guy into Jarry which impeded him hypothetically making a save? It certainly wasn’t the worst call I have ever seen.

I thought it was clear interference. The forward can't park in the crease like that. It doesn't matter if he bumps into Jarry or not. The crease it the goalies domain. That's why the review took all of 20 seconds.