The Sullivan Problem

[FLPensFan]

Yeah, it's high time to start this type of thread back up


--When your owners consider you a top 3 coach in the league, the GMs back your every move...why should any of the players be held accountable for their poor effort when the coach isn't held to that standard, either.

--We are 6 games into the season, and this team already goes into "disinterested mode." There is no drive on this team. Reporters can say all they want about how driven and motivated Sid, Geno, and Letang are. Blah-bity blah blah. Their efforts on the ice don't show it. The results on the ice don't show it. Malkin may actually the best of the 3 in this young season. That's startling in its own right.

--Erik Karlsson is the 2024 version of Jarome Iginla. If you aren't going to let Karlsson play Karlsson's game, there is zero sense to have Karlsson on your team. He's not hear because he's a Norris quality defender in his own end.

--6 games into the season, and the power play is already showing signs of reverting back to years prior. There were stretches that quick puck movement and zone cycling stopped and reverted for sure.

--Beauvillier started with a nice hot stretch. Has he played all the other games? His experiment with Sid should be over.

--The team is 3rd in the Metro today. That isn't going to last much longer. Only Colorado has given up more goals than our Penguins.

--Maybe they look so uninvested because they play the most boring style in the NHL. Sure, when they are on, they can be exciting scoring goals. And when they're off, they give up odd-man rushes like there is no tomorrow. But there's no "fight" in this team. There's nobody to go out and give this team momentum. Nobody to throw over the boards to throw some big checks. Nobody to go out and clear the crease. Mike Sullivan hockey is to just play. No physical play allowed.

Winnipeg is 3rd in GF per game, and 1st in GA per game. That should be another disaster waiting to happen on Sunday. It's one thing to be bad because we lack talent, because we do. It's another to lack talent and then act like the scene from Miracle, where the players would rather be pointing out the hot girls in the crowd then doing anything meaningful on the ice.

If Sullivan lasts the season, I don't know what the thought process is for this team. Maybe they are just gonna run the Bob Nutting playbook.

[Pens4Life]

Sullivan is STILL a problem yes, our defense seem to get even worse, like headless chickens out there.. just lost with mistakes all over the place!? Every goalie behind that D will suffer, will be tested night in,night out.. it wasnt Reirden problem, its same with Quinn.
I was pretty convinced from the get go,we dont need both Karlsson and Letang, but sadly we went that way. Defense got worse, offense better? - no not really.. so in my eyes,just another proof it wasnt worth it. I would prefer big physical D back there, than another offensive juggernut. Graves is still pain to watch..

Team needs shakeup, slap in the face... New coach and players held accountable would be best thing. Also I know 3rd line has great chemistry, but Beauvillier and Bunting doesnt seem to be working in top 6, maybe leave Bunting a bit more, because he showed last year he can play there, but DOC should be back with Sid. He can be easily 18-20 goals LW.

[Skatingpen]

DOC deserves to be back with the top line. Anyone can see that.

[Puck-Lurker]

DOC deserves to be back with the top line. Anyone can see that.

Sure. But he's also scoring threat on the 3rd. You move him up, the 3rd line gets a hole you can't readily fill.

[Ericf]

Yeah, it's high time to start this type of thread back up


--When your owners consider you a top 3 coach in the league, the GMs back your every move...why should any of the players be held accountable for their poor effort when the coach isn't held to that standard, either.

--We are 6 games into the season, and this team already goes into "disinterested mode." There is no drive on this team. Reporters can say all they want about how driven and motivated Sid, Geno, and Letang are. Blah-bity blah blah. Their efforts on the ice don't show it. The results on the ice don't show it. Malkin may actually the best of the 3 in this young season. That's startling in its own right.

--Erik Karlsson is the 2024 version of Jarome Iginla. If you aren't going to let Karlsson play Karlsson's game, there is zero sense to have Karlsson on your team. He's not hear because he's a Norris quality defender in his own end.

--6 games into the season, and the power play is already showing signs of reverting back to years prior. There were stretches that quick puck movement and zone cycling stopped and reverted for sure.

--Beauvillier started with a nice hot stretch. Has he played all the other games? His experiment with Sid should be over.

--The team is 3rd in the Metro today. That isn't going to last much longer. Only Colorado has given up more goals than our Penguins.

--Maybe they look so uninvested because they play the most boring style in the NHL. Sure, when they are on, they can be exciting scoring goals. And when they're off, they give up odd-man rushes like there is no tomorrow. But there's no "fight" in this team. There's nobody to go out and give this team momentum. Nobody to throw over the boards to throw some big checks. Nobody to go out and clear the crease. Mike Sullivan hockey is to just play. No physical play allowed.

Winnipeg is 3rd in GF per game, and 1st in GA per game. That should be another disaster waiting to happen on Sunday. It's one thing to be bad because we lack talent, because we do. It's another to lack talent and then act like the scene from Miracle, where the players would rather be pointing out the hot girls in the crowd then doing anything meaningful on the ice.

If Sullivan lasts the season, I don't know what the thought process is for this team. Maybe they are just gonna run the Bob Nutting playbook.

This is a really great post. Unfortunately I think Sullivan is locked in regardless of how the team plays. The thought process is: 1) he’s a great coach (lol) and we won’t do better; and 2) Sid and the core love playing for him and want him around so things would go from bad to worse if we fired him. Only way he’s fired is if Sid steps up and tells the front office he needs to go, like he did with MJ lol

[KG]

So Bunting looks to be getting scratched next game. Same with JSI.

Funny how Bunting was great when he first came here, now after a full camp and pre season, Sullivan is coaching him up to the player he wants him to be. Which would be plain vanilla.

I really don’t get the love affair with this coach. If anything Beauvillier should be scratched if we want to switch it up. Maybe even put Bunting with Sid. Be a little creative.

[BurghThing]

Creative and Sullivan do not belong in the same sentence.

[100565]

Fire Sully.

I’ve thought that for years believing he is a good coach but the team needs a change.

I’m changing my opinion.

The team needs a change but he is not a good coach.

Fire Sully.

[KBone]

Even if Sullivan is a good coach, he's not the coach this team needs now.

[Antonio]

I'm happy to see so many people joining me in the "Sullivan is not a good coach and he needs to be gone" section. Been kind of lonely being there for the last 5 plus years.

[Wyopen]

I'm happy to see so many people joining me in the "Sullivan is not a good coach and he needs to be gone" section. Been kind of lonely being there for the last 5 plus years.

Add me to the list.

[Puck-Lurker]

I'm happy to see so many people joining me in the "Sullivan is not a good coach and he needs to be gone" section. Been kind of lonely being there for the last 5 plus years.

That's because you've been so quiet about it. You should've told us how you really feel about Sullivan

[Pens4Life]

I'm happy to see so many people joining me in the "Sullivan is not a good coach and he needs to be gone" section. Been kind of lonely being there for the last 5 plus years.

Hey buddy I'm on that train for 3 years at least...

[pekkasteele]

I'm happy to see so many people joining me in the "Sullivan is not a good coach and he needs to be gone" section. Been kind of lonely being there for the last 5 plus years.

Oh I have been there with you since, I think, the montreal-series in -19... just tired of talking about it...

[brwi]

So Bunting looks to be getting scratched next game. Same with JSI.

Funny how Bunting was great when he first came here, now after a full camp and pre season, Sullivan is coaching him up to the player he wants him to be. Which would be plain vanilla.

I really don’t get the love affair with this coach. If anything Beauvillier should be scratched if we want to switch it up. Maybe even put Bunting with Sid. Be a little creative.

When Bunting came out struggling a lot in Carolina last year, they just put him on the 4th line for a while until he got it going both offensively and defensively. Think I would try that before just scratching him.

I was surprised Bunting did well last year with the Pens because his theatrical, agitating style with after the whistle antics seems opposite of what Sullivan wants, but Dubas obviously liked him a lot in Toronto, so here he is.

[BigMcK]

The Sullivan problem is that ownership doesn't seem to have a problem with Sullivan, and Dubas is going to walk the company line and ignore there's a problem with Sullivan to keep his job.

The problem with Sullivan is Sullivan and ownership would like for you to stop pointing out the Sullivan problem. It could be bad for business if it keeps getting mentioned.

[Posterboy]

When Bunting came out struggling a lot in Carolina last year, they just put him on the 4th line for a while until he got it going both offensively and defensively. Think I would try that before just scratching him.

I was surprised Bunting did well last year with the Pens because his theatrical, agitating style with after the whistle antics seems opposite of what Sullivan wants, but Dubas obviously liked him a lot in Toronto, so here he is.

I was thinking this too. I'd try Glass on the 3rd line and move Bunting down to the 4th. That way you send him a message he isn't cutting it but also give him an opportunity to play himself back up. His skill set isn't mismatched with Hayes and Acciari and would seem to fit well on an energy checking line. I really hate that O'Connor-Eller-Puljujarvi line's broken up though, they were great.

[Puck-Lurker]

When Bunting came out struggling a lot in Carolina last year, they just put him on the 4th line for a while until he got it going both offensively and defensively. Think I would try that before just scratching him.

I was surprised Bunting did well last year with the Pens because his theatrical, agitating style with after the whistle antics seems opposite of what Sullivan wants, but Dubas obviously liked him a lot in Toronto, so here he is.

I was thinking this too. I'd try Glass on the 3rd line and move Bunting down to the 4th. That way you send him a message he isn't cutting it but also give him an opportunity to play himself back up. His skill set isn't mismatched with Hayes and Acciari and would seem to fit well on an energy checking line. I really hate that O'Connor-Eller-Puljujarvi line's broken up though, they were great.

I think Eller-Puljujärvi is the "pair" on that line. Has been so far. Apart from a mental lapse by Sullivan, Pool Party has been stapled on Eller's right wing. I don't mind, to be honest.

DOC deserves top 6 time. He's been good. Bunting has been cold; I'd have preferred if he'd gone down to the 4th or something, give Hayes a day off. Or see what happens if Glass is on Crosby's wing, Hayes to 4C, and Beauvillier to Scratchville.

But hey, Sullivan scratches a 4.5M straight from the 2nd line to the nacho seat. I don't mind too much.

[Antonio]

To resurrect something I posted back in May...

Byslma record in Pit...401 games, 252-117-32.... W% .668... Playoffs...78 games, .551 WP - 1 SC
Guilty of: "unnecessary playoff Iosses, poor coaching, a total lack of strategy, and misuse of personnel"

Sullivan record in Pit...671 games, 375-219-77.... W% .616... Playoffs...82 games (in 4 more seasons), .537 WP - 2 SC
Guilty of: "unnecessary playoff Iosses and misses, poor coaching, a total lack of strategy, and misuse of personnel"

No one argues DB is a good coach, no one says he is a good coach but just not for here anymore, etc. No one argues he is one of the top 2 or 3 coaches in the league. I don't get it...DB on paper is the better coach if results like his record and playoff success are the only metric without any other factors taken into account, but he did not get a decade to be a failure, he is not incorrectly seen as some epic master of the ice...he is seen as what he is and was...a mediocre half wit who had some success behind the bench of a team stocked to the rafters with generational talent in their prime....exactly like MS. For the life of me, I cannot understand how or why people have this perception of MS as some kind of high quality coach. Never seen it, never thought it, and baffled to hell as to what dirty blackmail photos he must have of FSG and KD (and previous management) to stay employed here and have his ass kissed so much.

[Pens4Life]

Good post Antonio and I agree..

[FLPensFan]

Random anti-Sullivan thought of the day: What if this defense is actually really good, but the defensive structure has turned into last year's PP?

Also, when your defense is this bad, what's the coaches answer to stop the downpour of odd-man rushes game after game, going back to last year or the year before? One would think we would adjust something already.

[maopens]

Lots of good stuff in this thread. We all see it as we all follow it every game.

Like many of you, I had my concerns when the Pens were sold to a Boston private equity group.

Ownership no longer has a connection to Pittsburgh. The Mario connection was real but also very unique. It's not going to be the same. But even bigger in my mind is a private equity group ownership. I deal with some of that world in my day job so I say the following with some experience with that world:

Private equity generally has 2 motivations:
1) Making more money, period. This goal overrides everything else.
2) Collecting trophies with which they can then make more money.

The Pens are a trophy that can make FSG more money. Results on the ice are of little concern, a very distant concern. Putting forward a competitive team is important so that they keep people in the seats, buying jerseys, etc. is important because it leads to revenue. Winning Cups is a very distant goal.

Look at the Boston Red Sox over the past decade. They're just good enough to keep that rabid fan base engaged. Butts in seats, buying hats, and jerseys. The Red Sox haven't scared a World Series run in quite a while and you don't hear any panic out of Beantown.

FSG's ownership of the Pens is going to be the same thing. They will milk every dollar out of the Crosby-Malkin-Letang era that they can. When this era is over - over in the profitability sense, not Cup chances - FSG will likely sell the team and move on to its next trophy. When the post-Crosby era rebuild begins, I'm betting FSG doesn't stick around because revenue will inevitably drop and they aren't in this business to endure revenue drops.

[FLPensFan]

Bump....Fire Sullivan!

Spoiler:

[Pruezy11881]

How short is the leash and warm is the seat already?

[Daniel]

Random anti-Sullivan thought of the day: What if this defense is actually really good, but the defensive structure has turned into last year's PP?

Also, when your defense is this bad, what's the coaches answer to stop the downpour of odd-man rushes game after game, going back to last year or the year before? One would think we would adjust something already.

Even the best defense will suffer if the forwards and the system doesn't help. Even Lidstrom would struggle with this system. They know Letang and Karlsson will not play defense yet no one seems to adapt when they're on the ice. They play like 4 forwards expecting to be able to rely on their speed and skill to get back if necessary. Problem is both are diminishing with time.