Not sure I agree with him, but this had me laughing. Someone definitely needs to answer for some of the head scratching moves from this summer;
"The Hurricanes get Jake, and the return could only be viewed as being about quantity and, worse, about crossed fingers. It's all about hope. All about pinning the franchise's future on the same scouting/analytics whiz-bangs who not so long ago spit out a recommendation to guarantee $27 million to Ryan Graves."
Three Stars wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 8:25 am
I feel that some context is needed. Here's The Athletic's list of the best pure rental trades of the salary cap era.
12. Cristobal Huet
February 26, 2008 — Washington trades a 2009 second-round pick (Jeremy Morin) to Montreal for Huet
11. Jaromir Jagr
April 2, 2013 — Boston trades Lane MacDermid, Cody Payne and a 2013 conditional first-round pick (Jason Dickinson) to Dallas for Jagr
10. Thomas Vanek
March 5, 2014 — Montreal trades Sebastian Collberg and a conditional 2014 second-round pick (Jonathan MacLeod) to the N.Y. Islanders for Vanek
9. Antoine Vermette
February 28, 2015 — Chicago trades Klas Dahlbeck and a 2015 first-round pick (Nick Merkley) to Arizona for Vermette
8. Andrew Copp
March 21, 2022 — N.Y. Rangers trade Morgan Barron, a 2022 first-round pick (Brad Lambert), a 2022 second (Elias Salomonsson) and a 2023 fifth to Winnipeg for Copp and a 2023 sixth
7. Jarome Iginla
March 27, 2013 — Pittsburgh trades Kenny Agostino, Ben Hanowski and a 2013 first-round pick (Morgan Klimchuk) to Calgary for Iginla
6. Sergei Samsonov
March 9, 2006 — Edmonton trades Marty Reasoner, Yan Stastny and a 2006 second-round pick to Boston for Samsonov
5. Ron Hainsey
February 23, 2017 — Pittsburgh trades Danny Kristo and a 2017 second-round pick (Jake Leschyshyn) to Carolina for Hainsey
4. Paul Stastny
February 26, 2018 — Winnipeg trades Erik Foley, a conditional 2018 first-round pick (Rasmus Sandin) and a conditional 2020 fourth (not conveyed) to St. Louis for Stastny
2. (and 3.) Doug Weight and Mark Recchi
Jan. 30, 2006 — Carolina trades a 2006 first-round pick (Matthew Corrente), a 2006 fourth (Reto Berra), 2007 fourth (Cade Fairchild), Jesse Boulerice and Mike Zigomanis to St. Louis for Weight
March 9, 2006 — Carolina trades Niklas Nordgren, Krys Kolanos and a 2007 second (Kevin Marshall) for Recchi
1. Marian Hossa
February 26, 2008 — Pittsburgh trades Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Angelo Esposito and a 2008 first-round pick (Daultan Leveille) to Atlanta for Hossa and Pascal Dupuis
Here's what to glean from this list: The returns are mid at best for pure rentals. While we know who the draft picks turned into in each of these cases, at the time they were anonymous lottery tickets. You don't see a lot of best prospects going out, or at least guys who turned into something of value.
None of these involve 3 known prospects and a draft pick which is actually a fairly big outlay for a guy who likely will be gone in 2-3 months. I'm thinking that the equivalent trade in draft picks was the Doug Weight trade above, but I don't think a first, two fourths, Boulerice and Zigomanis (The Mantis!) would make me feel better.
Dubas obviously wanted seedlings (prospects) rather than seeds (draft picks).
Carolina was/is notorious for not being willing to shell out assets at the deadline for a splash pickup.
There's also a non-zero chance that the Penguins sign Guentzel in the offseason. I wouldn't say it's a great chance but evidently they wanted to leave that option open, given that they wouldn't give permission for contract negotiations.
The Pens were actually on the good side of 3 of these, which is extraordinary.
Looking at this list of past rental deals, I think we got as good of value as we could. Literally Colby Armstrong is the best player to be traded for a pure rental. I really think the disappointment stems from all the speculation, and the "reports" from the supposed insiders. I think Dubas did shoot for the moon but quickly realized he wasn't a blue chip prospect from anyone. I would bet you every single teams(van,car,nyr) "A" prospects were off limits. While it seems underwhelming but its par for the course for pure rental deals.
yinzer69 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:29 pmI really think the disappointment stems from all the speculation, and the "reports" from the supposed insiders.
Definitely agree with you there.
Combine that with a thrashing by the Caps and then seeing how deflated Crosby was post-game. Rough night all around.
Thanks for this. I didn't do this much research, but I mentioned on the first page of the thread that a 20-year-old putting up a point-per-game in the Finnish league seems pretty good.
"This is where the Penguins can take a lesson from Carolina: In the past three drafts, the Hurricanes have made 30 total picks, even though they were going for a championship. Pittsburgh has made 30 total picks in the past six drafts, only three of which were first-rounders."
FLP made me pause for a second but the reality is if the cupboard is bare, which it is, then adding 4 potential NHL players + 1 obviously legit top 9 winger for a pure rental (no contract discussions occurred from what is reported in the link below) that's not a bad day at the office. Everyone loves Jake. Let's hope he's back next season. I agree with the ESPN grade: B
Pens4Life wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:01 pm
Yeah, as I said earlier today Koivunen gives me some optimism about our new young guys ..
I don't get why no love for Cruz Lucius - not only an awesome name, the kid is straight cash for Wisconsin. All the knocks against him (skating) and his 3rd line projection is the same as it was with Jake.
Pens4Life wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:01 pm
Yeah, as I said earlier today Koivunen gives me some optimism about our new young guys ..
I don't get why no love for Cruz Lucius - not only an awesome name, the kid is straight cash for Wisconsin. All the knocks against him (skating) and his 3rd line projection is the same as it was with Jake.
I can't remember which article I read it in now, but it said he was injured during his draft, which is probably why he slipped to the 4th round. But as I posted earlier in the thread, he's been a point-per-game guy as a freshman and sophomore for a Wisconsin team that's currently ranked #5 in the country. It's hard for young guys to come in and really light it up right from the get-go at those big hockey schools.
Pens4Life wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:01 pm
Yeah, as I said earlier today Koivunen gives me some optimism about our new young guys ..
I don't get why no love for Cruz Lucius - not only an awesome name, the kid is straight cash for Wisconsin. All the knocks against him (skating) and his 3rd line projection is the same as it was with Jake.
Agreed. Was injured in his draft year only to come back and lead his team in scoring.
Pens4Life wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 2:01 pm
Yeah, as I said earlier today Koivunen gives me some optimism about our new young guys ..
I don't get why no love for Cruz Lucius - not only an awesome name, the kid is straight cash for Wisconsin. All the knocks against him (skating) and his 3rd line projection is the same as it was with Jake.
I can't remember which article I read it in now, but it said he was injured during his draft, which is probably why he slipped to the 4th round. But as I posted earlier in the thread, he's been a point-per-game guy as a freshman and sophomore for a Wisconsin team that's currently ranked #5 in the country. It's hard for young guys to come in and really light it up right from the get-go at those big hockey schools.
Yes and Wisconsin coaching is pretty highly regarded with ties to Pens organization. I'm bullish. I think KD put in place step 1 of "getting younger".
