My point is, It's Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Karlsson, add in Rust, (Guentzel ), and others. Why do they not get it? You mean to tell me they just can't figure out what they are doing wrong. The coach has made numerous changes to the powerplay over the curse of the season. Broken up the Big 4, tried others, etc. IDK, maybe he is telling them to pass it 100 times around the perimeter and only after 101 passes you can shoot it. Maybe that's it? Whatever it is, it clearly has us all flabbergasted.VA Fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:34 amIf the coach can not affect the power play are we saying it is time to jettison the roster and race for the bottom.Pitts wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 8:47 amHow is the coach going to change the powerplay with the personnel on it? Look at those names! What is he going to tell them? No, that's on the players. Stop circling around the perimeter, work to the net and shoot the damn puck. It isn't rocket science, it's a player problem. I do not know how a coach gets through to them. Send out the bottom 6 for PP1?Daniel wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:30 pmI think they’re a better power play from contending. If the PP added 20 more goals they’d be about top 10 and possibly add 10 more wins (obviously I’d have to go through every game to back that up and I won’t but we both know most games are won/lost on little to no changes on the ice). Are you really saying Crosby, Malkin, Jake, Rust, Karlsson, Letang, Smith, Rakell can’t give you more on the PP? What more can they possibly do with the roster to get the PP better? Outside of the PP where is the team lacking? Yes they’ve given up, but this has been a train wreck of a season and only tradeable players are accountable.Three Stars wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:19 pmAs many as are necessary. Just because you add a new guy doesn’t mean he’s a fit or that it’s all going to work out if Favored Coach Replacement starts cracking the whip. This is a roster that just took a weeklong mental break when one of their friends was traded. Does that strike you as something to build on? Dubas literally just said he would have traded more guys if other teams had the cap space to deal with it.Daniel wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 9:51 pm
Again? How many roster cleanings are needed before they determine the roster isn’t the issue? There are only 6 guys on the roster from 2020-21 who played more than 20 games, add 2 from 2021-22 and add 4 from last season. They’ve done a roster housecleaning, they tend to replace over half the roster.
Do you what hasn’t changed since the 2020-21 season? The head coach and 2 assistant coaches. I think the roster house cleaning has been done ad nauseam, the front office house cleaning has been done, the ownership group has been changed.
Can you honestly look at either last year’s (Granlund-mania) or this year’s (only two lines need to score, honest) roster and say they’re a coaching change away from contending or even succeeding?
I mean, it’s been said numerous times in multiple media outlets that Sullivan isn’t going anywhere. How many times do they have to say it before acceptance kicks in?
I’ve accepted that Sullivan isn’t going anywhere, which means I’ve accepted this team isn’t going anywhere. I guess they can continually replace 10 players per year until they get the right group since it’s not the coach. I’ll still be a fan, I just have to limit my expectations.
Or are we just supposed to expect with another roster refresh that everyone will play in the penguins system as their career numbers suggest and hope for the best?
What is a reasonable expectation of the head coach’s duties? Is it just to practice concepts and talk to the media about them, but then because of who the players are he is not required to hold them accountable? Just curious.
Random Penguins Fodder
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 23617
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:22 am
- Location: Working ....
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
-
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2024 8:31 am
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
That is the point of my question about the players and the coach. Is it a reasonable expectation speaking of all the players mentioned above to just right this year off as a statistical anomaly. That they absolutely will be better next year.Pitts wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 4:34 pmMy point is, It's Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Karlsson, add in Rust, (Guentzel ), and others. Why do they not get it? You mean to tell me they just can't figure out what they are doing wrong. The coach has made numerous changes to the powerplay over the curse of the season. Broken up the Big 4, tried others, etc. IDK, maybe he is telling them to pass it 100 times around the perimeter and only after 101 passes you can shoot it. Maybe that's it? Whatever it is, it clearly has us all flabbergasted.VA Fan wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:34 amIf the coach can not affect the power play are we saying it is time to jettison the roster and race for the bottom.Pitts wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2024 8:47 amHow is the coach going to change the powerplay with the personnel on it? Look at those names! What is he going to tell them? No, that's on the players. Stop circling around the perimeter, work to the net and shoot the damn puck. It isn't rocket science, it's a player problem. I do not know how a coach gets through to them. Send out the bottom 6 for PP1?Daniel wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:30 pmI think they’re a better power play from contending. If the PP added 20 more goals they’d be about top 10 and possibly add 10 more wins (obviously I’d have to go through every game to back that up and I won’t but we both know most games are won/lost on little to no changes on the ice). Are you really saying Crosby, Malkin, Jake, Rust, Karlsson, Letang, Smith, Rakell can’t give you more on the PP? What more can they possibly do with the roster to get the PP better? Outside of the PP where is the team lacking? Yes they’ve given up, but this has been a train wreck of a season and only tradeable players are accountable.Three Stars wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:19 pm
As many as are necessary. Just because you add a new guy doesn’t mean he’s a fit or that it’s all going to work out if Favored Coach Replacement starts cracking the whip. This is a roster that just took a weeklong mental break when one of their friends was traded. Does that strike you as something to build on? Dubas literally just said he would have traded more guys if other teams had the cap space to deal with it.
Can you honestly look at either last year’s (Granlund-mania) or this year’s (only two lines need to score, honest) roster and say they’re a coaching change away from contending or even succeeding?
I mean, it’s been said numerous times in multiple media outlets that Sullivan isn’t going anywhere. How many times do they have to say it before acceptance kicks in?
I’ve accepted that Sullivan isn’t going anywhere, which means I’ve accepted this team isn’t going anywhere. I guess they can continually replace 10 players per year until they get the right group since it’s not the coach. I’ll still be a fan, I just have to limit my expectations.
Or are we just supposed to expect with another roster refresh that everyone will play in the penguins system as their career numbers suggest and hope for the best?
What is a reasonable expectation of the head coach’s duties? Is it just to practice concepts and talk to the media about them, but then because of who the players are he is not required to hold them accountable? Just curious.
That the problems are with everybody not named above and we can try to overhaul the roster and everything will be better and so we should not ask Sullivan to hold everyone accountable.
Not treating everyone to the same standard is how you get a bad culture in teams.
If overhauling the roster does not work to try and clear out what I suppose everyone believes is the stench of Hextall’s moves and the current GM idiotic moves for no offense guys for the bottom 6 that clearly must have gone against the wishes and advice of the coaching staff what do we do then.
As a fan I hope the overhaul works. But I am prepared for the losing because it is going to happen sooner or later.
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 24099
- Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:53 am
- Location: NY
-
- AHL Hall of Famer
- Posts: 7707
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm
-
- AHL Hall of Famer
- Posts: 7721
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:14 pm
- Location: A sense of poise and rationality
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2024/03/ ... pirates-dk
Mad, I tell you! Mad!!• Sidney Crosby's for-real mad. Not manufactured. Not in the moment. Mario Lemieux wasn't the most hands-on owner, but he'd never have allowed any of this to unfold the way it did, even if he'd been in favor of rebuilding, even if he'd been in favor of moving Jake. All I'll say for now.
-
- ECHL'er
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:43 pm
- Location: Wyomissing, Pa
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Can we let go of the Jake drama. There wasn’t this much angst when Jagr was traded to Washington for three nobodies.
-
- AHL'er
- Posts: 3249
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:10 pm
- Location: north central Ohio
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
While I fully agree it is time to move on considering it was a move that needed to be made, there was still *much* more angst when Jagr was traded. At least from a fanbase perspective.
-
- AHL Hall of Famer
- Posts: 7721
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:14 pm
- Location: A sense of poise and rationality
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 24099
- Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:53 am
- Location: NY
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
I get it. Jake was not the problem that this team had/has clearly, but how many times are they going to just bring the same team back?Three Stars wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:37 am https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2024/03/ ... pirates-dk
Mad, I tell you! Mad!!• Sidney Crosby's for-real mad. Not manufactured. Not in the moment. Mario Lemieux wasn't the most hands-on owner, but he'd never have allowed any of this to unfold the way it did, even if he'd been in favor of rebuilding, even if he'd been in favor of moving Jake. All I'll say for now.
The only issue that I have with moving on from Jake was that they didn't try to save the season first by bringing in a new coach at the all-star break. Before we trade a first line winger, I would think we would have tried all avenues to save the season. Dubas wrongfully believed too much in the team and the core that they could "flip the switch" and kept kicking the can on his rumored deadline. This team has been consistently inconsistent for years now. They don't defend well consistently, the power play is a joke, they are soft offensively and defensively etc.
I think after this season we will start to see Dubas really take control of this team and there will be people/players/posters! that aren't going to be happy with some of the decisions made.
-
- NHL Second Liner
- Posts: 59781
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:27 am
- Location: Lake Wylie, SC
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Acciari on IR, Poulin called up. Guessing it would had been Ponomarev but I think I saw he’s out week to week now.
-
- AHL Hall of Famer
- Posts: 7721
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:14 pm
- Location: A sense of poise and rationality
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
My completely manufactured guess is that Crosby/Malkin/Letang pushed management on the idea of the core still being enough to compete . "We got this." They bet on themselves as the season collapsed around them, and continued to do so through both of Dubas' self-imposed deadlines. Out of respect or whatever Dubas gave them a chance to get this. They didn't get this, Dubas did what he had to do, and now it's bruised egos all around.KG wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:47 amI get it. Jake was not the problem that this team had/has clearly, but how many times are they going to just bring the same team back?Three Stars wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:37 am https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2024/03/ ... pirates-dk
Mad, I tell you! Mad!!• Sidney Crosby's for-real mad. Not manufactured. Not in the moment. Mario Lemieux wasn't the most hands-on owner, but he'd never have allowed any of this to unfold the way it did, even if he'd been in favor of rebuilding, even if he'd been in favor of moving Jake. All I'll say for now.
The only issue that I have with moving on from Jake was that they didn't try to save the season first by bringing in a new coach at the all-star break. Before we trade a first line winger, I would think we would have tried all avenues to save the season. Dubas wrongfully believed too much in the team and the core that they could "flip the switch" and kept kicking the can on his rumored deadline. This team has been consistently inconsistent for years now. They don't defend well consistently, the power play is a joke, they are soft offensively and defensively etc.
I think after this season we will start to see Dubas really take control of this team and there will be people/players/posters! that aren't going to be happy with some of the decisions made.
Now, I realize how difficult it can be to come to terms with the fact that you can't do what you once did. Lemieux retired at 31 rather than fade, and I as I often say around here, this fanbase has never actually seen its stars fade in any notable amount which is making the transition doubly difficult. The stars themselves also haven't seen themselves fade and I don't think they're handling it all that well. Crosby is burning himself out to maintain his level. Malkin either doesn't see it or doesn't care how much he's changed, which shows you how much of his talent was in physical ability. Letang is Letangier than ever and always has had an ego. Honestly, Malkin and Letang are playing much like their current salaries (6 million and change), so by that reckoning we're getting exactly what the team is paying for...but two 6 million dollar players are generally not core pieces of a championship team.
The safest assumption on Dubas' part at this point is that this core doesn't have it. So, the choice is to either burn it all down or try to thread the needle by bringing in even more star power to restore their competitiveness. Karlsson was supposed to be the latter move, and well...here we are. Anyone else remember Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne signing with the Avalanche in the early 2000s? Sometimes the fit just isn't there.
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 23617
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:22 am
- Location: Working ....
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
I actually took that supposed Crosby anger as pointed toward the overall construction and play of the team rather than the Jake trade in particular. But, clearly, Crosby was affected by the trade for a bit there.KG wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:47 amI get it. Jake was not the problem that this team had/has clearly, but how many times are they going to just bring the same team back?Three Stars wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:37 am https://dkpittsburghsports.com/2024/03/ ... pirates-dk
Mad, I tell you! Mad!!• Sidney Crosby's for-real mad. Not manufactured. Not in the moment. Mario Lemieux wasn't the most hands-on owner, but he'd never have allowed any of this to unfold the way it did, even if he'd been in favor of rebuilding, even if he'd been in favor of moving Jake. All I'll say for now.
The only issue that I have with moving on from Jake was that they didn't try to save the season first by bringing in a new coach at the all-star break. Before we trade a first line winger, I would think we would have tried all avenues to save the season. Dubas wrongfully believed too much in the team and the core that they could "flip the switch" and kept kicking the can on his rumored deadline. This team has been consistently inconsistent for years now. They don't defend well consistently, the power play is a joke, they are soft offensively and defensively etc.
I think after this season we will start to see Dubas really take control of this team and there will be people/players/posters! that aren't going to be happy with some of the decisions made.
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 23617
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:22 am
- Location: Working ....
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 24099
- Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:53 am
- Location: NY
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Good to see Poulin up! he's earned the opportunity.
-
- AHL'er
- Posts: 4885
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:02 pm
- Location: Slovenia
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Happy to see Koivunen playing this well, he is the most exciting prospect for me that we got for Jake!
Also FINALLY Poulin called up, freaking time!
Also FINALLY Poulin called up, freaking time!
-
- AHL All-Star
- Posts: 6102
- Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:49 am
- Location: Right here, right now.
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Good, was about time. Now we can stop complaining that Poulin does get a call.
I hope he gets some ice to work with
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 18634
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:22 pm
- Location: All You Can Eat Crow Tavern
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
The Good: Poulin is finally called up!
The Bad: Carter is back from his injury
The Ugly: You know Sully will dress Carter before Poulin
The Bad: Carter is back from his injury
The Ugly: You know Sully will dress Carter before Poulin
-
- AHL'er
- Posts: 4885
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:02 pm
- Location: Slovenia
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Bemstrom will get scratched I think.. So both Poulin and Carter will play
-
- NHL Second Liner
- Posts: 59781
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:27 am
- Location: Lake Wylie, SC
-
- NHL Second Liner
- Posts: 59781
- Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:27 am
- Location: Lake Wylie, SC
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Aciari is on LTIR and can’t come off until the season is over so he’s done.
This does mean though that there is cap space to take Nieto off LTIR if he’s ever ready.
And Poulin is on emergency so we still have 3 regular call ups to use which at least is one thing Dubas is somehow managing correctly.
This does mean though that there is cap space to take Nieto off LTIR if he’s ever ready.
And Poulin is on emergency so we still have 3 regular call ups to use which at least is one thing Dubas is somehow managing correctly.
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 21872
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:30 pm
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
I'll be interested to see how the 3rd and 4th lines shake out.
I would consider going Smith-Eller-Puljujarvi and Bemstrom-Poulin-Puustinen. Poulin has played a lot with Puustinen in WBS, and that would probably help him simplify his game.
But, Sullivan will probably decide Carter is ready and MUST be in the lineup, with so much on the line tonight in this game.
I would consider going Smith-Eller-Puljujarvi and Bemstrom-Poulin-Puustinen. Poulin has played a lot with Puustinen in WBS, and that would probably help him simplify his game.
But, Sullivan will probably decide Carter is ready and MUST be in the lineup, with so much on the line tonight in this game.
-
- AHL Hall of Famer
- Posts: 7739
- Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:00 am
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Minus Sid, Geno, and Letang would you be upset if no one else currently on the team was back next season? I don’t think I would, which goes to show you how little we have of value.
I like guys like Rust and MP but if they didn’t play for the Pens next season I wouldn’t be sad. It’s kind of funny because I remember being sad when guys like Tocchet, Francis and Robitaille left.
This team needs a major rebuild.
I like guys like Rust and MP but if they didn’t play for the Pens next season I wouldn’t be sad. It’s kind of funny because I remember being sad when guys like Tocchet, Francis and Robitaille left.
This team needs a major rebuild.
-
- NHL Fourth Liner
- Posts: 21872
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:30 pm
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Aside from Sid, Geno, and Letang...Rust and Jarry are the only other 2 that have been here for more than 5 years. Actually, Pettersson is finishing his 5th full season, plus the 57 games he played when acquired early in the season. Everyone else on this roster hasn't been here that long. Carter and POJ at 3.5 years each are next in tenure.lemieuxReturns wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:13 pm Minus Sid, Geno, and Letang would you be upset if no one else currently on the team was back next season? I don’t think I would, which goes to show you how little we have of value.
I like guys like Rust and MP but if they didn’t play for the Pens next season I wouldn’t be sad. It’s kind of funny because I remember being sad when guys like Tocchet, Francis and Robitaille left.
This team needs a major rebuild.
So, there aren't a lot of guys left to have that level of attachment. A complete rebuild is needed. Play a bunch of young guys and let them fail and be awful. Go with Blomqvist, keep St. Ivany, give DOC, Puustinen, Poulin, Bemstrom and Puljujarvi spots in the in lineup next year. Move everybody else.
Let's pretend we could move every single player we wanted this offseason, finished out of the top 10 worst and gave SJ our 1st this year, and stockpiled picks for the next 3 years. 1 or 2 extra firsts, a bunch of 2nds, and a bunch of 3rds. (Arizona has all 3 of its firsts, 10 2nds, and 7 3rd over the next 3 drafts; Nashville has an extra first, 2 extra 2nds and 2 extra 3rds over the next 3 drafts...that's how you rebuild quick). If the Penguins were bad next season and the year after, could get 2 top 5 players that come in right away...then use UFA to rebuild the team back up around Crosby...it is possible that the amount of downtime could be minimal.
Of course, then there is this from DK's 21 Takes today:
• Sidney Crosby's for-real mad. Not manufactured. Not in the moment. Mario Lemieux wasn't the most hands-on owner, but he'd never have allowed any of this to unfold the way it did, even if he'd been in favor of rebuilding, even if he'd been in favor of moving Jake. All I'll say for now.
-
- AHL Hall of Famer
- Posts: 7739
- Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:00 am
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
Yea, I think you are right that the rebuild does not need to take a super long time, but it cannot be rushed either. Some teams think they are there and try to get good via UFA too soon and you are then stuck in the middle with not enough young-drafted talent in the pipe. If Sid is still on the team, the temptation to rush will be there.
-
- AHL Hall of Famer
- Posts: 7707
- Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm
Re: Random Penguins Fodder
FLPensFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:31 pmAside from Sid, Geno, and Letang...Rust and Jarry are the only other 2 that have been here for more than 5 years. Actually, Pettersson is finishing his 5th full season, plus the 57 games he played when acquired early in the season. Everyone else on this roster hasn't been here that long. Carter and POJ at 3.5 years each are next in tenure.lemieuxReturns wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:13 pm Minus Sid, Geno, and Letang would you be upset if no one else currently on the team was back next season? I don’t think I would, which goes to show you how little we have of value.
I like guys like Rust and MP but if they didn’t play for the Pens next season I wouldn’t be sad. It’s kind of funny because I remember being sad when guys like Tocchet, Francis and Robitaille left.
This team needs a major rebuild.
So, there aren't a lot of guys left to have that level of attachment. A complete rebuild is needed. Play a bunch of young guys and let them fail and be awful. Go with Blomqvist, keep St. Ivany, give DOC, Puustinen, Poulin, Bemstrom and Puljujarvi spots in the in lineup next year. Move everybody else.
Let's pretend we could move every single player we wanted this offseason, finished out of the top 10 worst and gave SJ our 1st this year, and stockpiled picks for the next 3 years. 1 or 2 extra firsts, a bunch of 2nds, and a bunch of 3rds. (Arizona has all 3 of its firsts, 10 2nds, and 7 3rd over the next 3 drafts; Nashville has an extra first, 2 extra 2nds and 2 extra 3rds over the next 3 drafts...that's how you rebuild quick). If the Penguins were bad next season and the year after, could get 2 top 5 players that come in right away...then use UFA to rebuild the team back up around Crosby...it is possible that the amount of downtime could be minimal.
Of course, then there is this from DK's 21 Takes today:
• Sidney Crosby's for-real mad. Not manufactured. Not in the moment. Mario Lemieux wasn't the most hands-on owner, but he'd never have allowed any of this to unfold the way it did, even if he'd been in favor of rebuilding, even if he'd been in favor of moving Jake. All I'll say for now.
I love Mario but wasn't he the one who ultimately signed off on the brain trust of Hextall & Burke?