FLPensFan's plan for Dubas

[Antonio]

To be fair. Malkin Not having wingers does not excuse his lack of effort and decision making, most nights.

Truth

[Coffey Break]

To be fair. Malkin Not having wingers does not excuse his lack of effort and decision making, most nights.

I don't think anyone is arguing that - atleast to the eye-test. But his advanced stats still show he is still an elite player in this game. He truly needs actual NHL wingers that he can trust and finish on his passes. Most amazing is that his EV Defense is as good as it's ever been in his entire career. He's forcing turnovers and leading a lot of transition the other way. The problem is, he has no one he can go to once he crosses the OZ blue-line. He's passing the puck to 2 stiffs just about everytime he's on the ice 5v5. No finishers and no one who can consistently win board battles to sustain O-Zone pressure.

Again - not an excuse. But I will die on the hill that Evgeni Malkin is FAR from being a problem on this team. Roster construction - specifically around scoring depth is a masterclass clown show. Period.

[Guinness]

Other than why Pool Party isn't playing, I have no complaints... mostly because I view this season as lost and we might as well see what we have in guys like DOC, Phillips, Puustinen, etc.

And I'm a big Puustinen fan and I think he's got a spot somewhere in the top 6... but that's just me and black-and-gold colored glasses.

[FLPensFan]

So, fair warning, Puustinen doesn't speak great English as of yet as far as I know, so some of this may just be him using some words that could have been better refined.

But, was reading on DK's site that Puustinen was sent down because they recognized his TOI was dropping and wanted to get him more ice time. Then further, when he got called up, he was told they want him to get more TOI.

Excuse me, Mikey...don't you control that. I mean, a guy losing 30 seconds to a minute TOI game over game can happen due to ebb and flow, penalties and what not, but Puustinen had 6 games over 14 minutes TOI (including 4 over 15 minutes) in his first 9 games. In his next 13 games, he had over 10 minutes TOI only 3 times, and had TOI under 8 minutes 5 times.

That's on the coach. That's not ebb and flow. That's a coach outright deciding not to use a player. And you want to know why our bottom 6 is so bad....

402 forwards this season have played at least 280 TOI (all strengths). In terms of point production
--352, Jeff Carter
--377, Radim Zohorna
--386, Matthew Phillips
--393, Jansen Harkins
--394, Noel Acciari

The next lowest forward on the Penguins is DOC at 265 overall. But hey, we gotta take some minutes away from Puustinen, and we gotta bench Puljujarvi because we need some of these guys in our lineup.

[Coffey Break]

So, fair warning, Puustinen doesn't speak great English as of yet as far as I know, so some of this may just be him using some words that could have been better refined.

But, was reading on DK's site that Puustinen was sent down because they recognized his TOI was dropping and wanted to get him more ice time. Then further, when he got called up, he was told they want him to get more TOI.

Excuse me, Mikey...don't you control that. I mean, a guy losing 30 seconds to a minute TOI game over game can happen due to ebb and flow, penalties and what not, but Puustinen had 6 games over 14 minutes TOI (including 4 over 15 minutes) in his first 9 games. In his next 13 games, he had over 10 minutes TOI only 3 times, and had TOI under 8 minutes 5 times.

That's on the coach. That's not ebb and flow. That's a coach outright deciding not to use a player. And you want to know why our bottom 6 is so bad....

402 forwards this season have played at least 280 TOI (all strengths). In terms of point production
--352, Jeff Carter
--377, Radim Zohorna
--386, Matthew Phillips
--393, Jansen Harkins
--394, Noel Acciari

The next lowest forward on the Penguins is DOC at 265 overall. But hey, we gotta take some minutes away from Puustinen, and we gotta bench Puljujarvi because we need some of these guys in our lineup.

God - this is depressing. Eerily similar to "the Craig Adams and Tanner Glass Experience" towards the tail-end of Dan Bylsma's tenure and his belief that those 2 somehow brought something to the lineup. I guess atleast they both were on the PK to an extent - what does a stiff like Harkins do that 20 AHLers couldn't? You are a completely unserious organization if you have guys like Harkins, Colin White, and Matthew Philips getting regular jerseys and ice-time. Sad state of affairs.

[Guinness]

God - this is depressing. Eerily similar to "the Craig Adams and Tanner Glass Experience" towards the tail-end of Dan Bylsma's tenure and his belief that those 2 somehow brought something to the lineup. I guess atleast they both were on the PK to an extent - what does a stiff like Harkins do that 20 AHLers couldn't? You are a completely unserious organization if you have guys like Harkins, Colin White, and Matthew Philips getting regular jerseys and ice-time. Sad state of affairs.

Co-signed.

[Zalapski33]

So, fair warning, Puustinen doesn't speak great English as of yet as far as I know, so some of this may just be him using some words that could have been better refined.

But, was reading on DK's site that Puustinen was sent down because they recognized his TOI was dropping and wanted to get him more ice time. Then further, when he got called up, he was told they want him to get more TOI.

Excuse me, Mikey...don't you control that. I mean, a guy losing 30 seconds to a minute TOI game over game can happen due to ebb and flow, penalties and what not, but Puustinen had 6 games over 14 minutes TOI (including 4 over 15 minutes) in his first 9 games. In his next 13 games, he had over 10 minutes TOI only 3 times, and had TOI under 8 minutes 5 times.

That's on the coach. That's not ebb and flow. That's a coach outright deciding not to use a player. And you want to know why our bottom 6 is so bad....

402 forwards this season have played at least 280 TOI (all strengths). In terms of point production
--352, Jeff Carter
--377, Radim Zohorna
--386, Matthew Phillips
--393, Jansen Harkins
--394, Noel Acciari

The next lowest forward on the Penguins is DOC at 265 overall. But hey, we gotta take some minutes away from Puustinen, and we gotta bench Puljujarvi because we need some of these guys in our lineup.

Harsh facts which are clear evidence for those who are responsible to be held accountable for this.

[FLPensFan]

Conspiracy Theory:

Sullivan and Reirden haven't been fired because they are doing exactly what has been asked of them. Say all the right things publicly, get to our game, dress the best lineup to win, yadda yadda, but behind the scenes, the organizational goal is to start building for the future. Never publicly say it, but let's tank ourselves into a lottery pick this year.

Sullivan to media: Jansen Harkins, he plays the right way. We really like his shot.
Sullivan under his breath: This guy will lose us 10 points on the season easily!!!!

Sullivan to media: Puljujarvi and Puustinen know what they need to do to earn more ice time.
Sullivan under his breath: Mental note, save these 2 guys for next season. Scratch em now, they may earn us some unwanted points.

Sullivan to media: Ryan Graves is adjusting to a new system. I don't think he's played as poorly as you may think.
Sullivan under his breath: Good think I had this crock of poo line saved up from Jack Johnson. This guy sucks!

Will be interesting to see what Dubas has to say publicly to the media. He's not Jim Rutherford, so I really don't expect him to come out and say we are going to be sellers. Maybe he'll surprise me. Either way, I'll wait until the deadline to make my evaluation.

[thehockeyguru]

Elliotte Friedman on NHL Network moments ago that Dubas won't trade for short term help. He thinks it's likely Guentzel gets traded, question is do teams get to talk extension with him before making a trade. Said others believe Dubas will take one last shot at trying to sign Guentzel but hes not convinced that Dubas will do that

He also thinks Dubas and Crosby likely talked about the teams future and believe a Crosby extension was talked about. Thinks Crosby will sign another contract in Pittsburgh

[BfromD]

Elliotte Friedman ... also thinks Dubas and Crosby likely talked about the teams future and believe a Crosby extension was talked about. Thinks Crosby will sign another contract in Pittsburgh

If a conversation between Dubas and Crosby (and noone else) hasn't happened, that needs to be the first step of any plan Dubas has in his mind here forward imo. Watching this team languish AND fail to make any changes whatsoever even to the assistant coaching staff sure makes it feel like Fenway has told Dubas to not do ANYTHING that might make Sid want to leave after his current deal is up. If Sid is on board with changes and signs an extension (or at least expresses his intention to do so), maybe the handcuffs come off Dubas, if not for the near term at least but going into Day 1 of the long offseason. I'm not saying the team should be basing everything around Sid, but it sure as hell feels like that is the thing that has everything else frozen in place (bus rides to and from WBS and waiver wire pickups notwithstanding).

[maopens]

Just listened to Sully's pregame interview.

We all know he loves him some small players but he just spoke very glowingly of Matthew Phillips. At 5-7, 160 pounds, God help us if this kid works out. Sullivan will have to scout some 12 year old travel teams to find more like him.

[FLPensFan]

He also thinks Dubas and Crosby likely talked about the teams future and believe a Crosby extension was talked about. Thinks Crosby will sign another contract in Pittsburgh

Interesting, because in an article I read the other day (either DK or Athletic), there was a direct quote

From The Athletic yesterday:

Will the Penguins’ decision regarding Guentzel, either before or after the trade deadline, influence Crosby’s decision to recommit to Pittsburgh?

“No,” Crosby said. “Obviously, it’s a big decision for both sides. That’s something that’s out of my control. But I don’t think that affects how I view things.

“I’m not even thinking about extensions.”
--------------------
This isn't the exact quote I'm thinking of, either. I thought Crosby was asked about extension and he said something to the effect that he's still signed for another year, and now isn't the time to talk extension. Over the summer or sometime into next season was what I thought he said.

[penny lane]

It's happening. He would fill all seats, home and away. Besides player/coach on ice.

[IntangibleBeer]

It's happening. He would fill all seats, home and away. Besides player/coach on ice.

Awesome!!

Now where did I put my mullet wig?

[FLPensFan]

Lebrun: "From talking to people the last couple of days, Kyle Dubas is listening to offers on EVERYONE on his roster, with the exception of their core."

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/%7e2870317

[Puck-Lurker]

Lebrun: "From talking to people the last couple of days, Kyle Dubas is listening to offers on EVERYONE on his roster, with the exception of their core."

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/%7e2870317

Unacceptable.

Our core should be *only* Crosby. Anyone else should be negotiable.

[Badger Bob]

Lebrun: "From talking to people the last couple of days, Kyle Dubas is listening to offers on EVERYONE on his roster, with the exception of their core."

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/%7e2870317

Unacceptable.

Our core should be *only* Crosby. Anyone else should be negotiable.

I hope you've already informed Pens management of your stance on this position! LOL!

[FLPensFan]

If anyone wants to watch live, or view it later:

[Badger Bob]

This presser is a whole bunch of nuthin.

[FLPensFan]

Highlights from Dubas presser:

--"Where we're at right now is not where we aspired to be in the beginning."

--Talked about Guentzel situation a bit, but the audio had cut out and back in. What I could glean is, no progress. Didn't talk about outright trading him, but mentioned this team needs to get younger. Talked about where his age is and committing to a bigger contract...and wanting to get younger.

--Addressed LeBrun comment about everyone available. Hadn't heard them, but a fellow GM brought it up to him the other day. Didn't specifically confirm or deny, just said the calls have increased as the Penguins play hasn't been what they expected. Talked about only winning 1 of 3 games a few times lately and that they aren't where they are.

--Rob Rossi asks if this team continues in this direction, how will that effect players and coaching changes in the offseason "One thing about the coaching staff is it is low hanging fruit. It's the easy thing to do. I have respect for Sully, we speak on an almost daily basis. I know he's into, the team means a great deal to him. For me, I envision Mike Sullivan, I think he is the type of coach that can develop people/players, and that he can win. So I don't think there needs to be any discussion about Mike. I see the work he's doing everyday. It's a fair question based on the results, but I see the work being done."

--Taylor Haase: Are you satisfied with PP and work Todd Reirden has done, or do you think it falls more on players: " Accountability on everyone, including me. It's on coaches, and players as well. 1) If there is an issue with the organization, it has to start with me. I need to to investigate the why and be able to address. There's no dancing around it, it hasn't been where we want it to be."

--Molinari: Have you or plan to ask anyone to waive NMC/NTC "I have not asked anyone to waive a NTC/NMC. Always evaluating, measuring the cost, etc. Gigantic game of poker. Again says as the team has struggled more, he is getting more and more interest in his players."

--Going to be buyers, or turn more towards the future: "I can't see us moving future draft capital to try and bolster the team. Are there moves where we can add good, younger players to this team to help us now and in the future." If there is a scenario where we could move a younger prospect for a slightly older player who is closer to the NHL, that is something we could do. Said he still believes this group can make a push.

--Talked about criticism of him, trying to build out more defensive lines in lines 3 and 4, to try and take pressure off Sid and Geno. Eller running one line and Acciari running the other. Stated

--Talked about getting younger AGAIN, mentioned the roster being oldest in the league. Doesn't want to get too far ahead, but talked about Sid, Geno, Kris, and Erik imparting wisdom on younger guys that they can bring in.

--Yohe: One way to get younger is to do a complete rebuild. Hard to do with Sid and Geno "Major opportunities is to get the team more consistent. When you have players like Sid and Geno, they prevent you from doing a full rebuild because they are too good." Named Yager, Pickering, Poulin, and Blomqvist as younger players they would want the core to help learn the game and expedite their development. Talked about looking for opportunities where maybe a team has a surplus at a position, where we can get some more younger guys in here.

--Reporter asks about his evaluation phase, can what happens in next 2 and a half weeks change his approach on trade deadline: "I think we've had enough moments that, when we are at our best, we can play with anybody...but it hasn't happened enough. If the group didn't have the pedigree and accomplishment, they probably wouldn't have this much runway."

--Reporter, any thoughts on just doing a hockey trade to shakeup the room. "We have explored that going into ASG break. We have found that it is just not that easy in the current landscape. We tried to do it, continue to try and do it, but the opportunities haven't been there and we've pretty much exhausted them." If we are

--DanK - When meeting with Sully daily, has he asked for specific players or types of players. "With Mike, I'll say this is the opportunities that we have what do you think? And most times, Mike will defer and state that if you think it will help, go ahead and do it. It's not his experience in-season to say I need X. They did a recent review like this with Matthew Phillips.

--Reporter - What would you say as a message to fans concerned and frustrated, on potentially missing playoffs for 2nd year in a row. "My expectation was that last night, given some of the circumstances, that last night would have been a lower attended game. Fans are doing their part. From my 8-9 months here, this is a proud city with their sports teams. We want to try and achieve success with the least amount of pain as possible."

--Rob Rossi - You've taked about Sid, Geno, and Letang. Then also talked about Erik. Should we consider those 4 as the core "We need to keep adding to it. My hope is that we can continue to add younger guys. And again, the core can impart their wisdom on these younger players."

==============================================================
My two cents from all of this, immediately after without much time to digest:

1) Sorry, but Sullivan isn't going anywhere. While he didn't come out and say it, he believes the effort and work is there from Sullivan. He also made a comment that he believes he is the right guy for player development, and Dubas mentioned MULTIPLE TIMES about getting younger. Sullivan's here. It doesn't seem like even a playoff miss is going to get him fired.

2) From what he did this offseason, and what he said today...I think this offseason was more about clearing up some of the dead weight (Petry, Granlund, etc) and trying to build a defensive bottom 6 team. He acknowledge that didn't work. Moving forward, his main focus, repeated many, many times, is for this team to try and get younger.

3) My stuff on Guentzel at the beginning was mainly me making assumptions based on what little I could catch due to audio switching out. But, if he's talking about getting younger...I'd expect Guentzel to get moved, and Dubas will look for an opportunity to add 1 or 2 young players to the roster out of a Guentzel deal. Can he get a Hoglander and someone else younger? Can he get a Holloway AND McLeod to add to under 25 guys to the roster? I think that is what he is looking at right now. Just my opinion.

4) While publicly he's saying this team still has a chance, sounds like these next 6 games (2 at home then a 4 game West Coast trip) will be the final measuring stick. And even if they went 6-0, doesn't sound like he's willing to spend futures for rentals or older players. If by some miracle this team made a strong run and put themselves maybe 3-4 points out before the deadline, Dubas will need to find a hockey trade or use guys from within. He won't dump picks and prospects.

That's where we are at. The bad here is, Sullivan is going nowhere. The good news is, Dubas sees the need to get younger, and it sounds like Dubas isn't going to be afraid to deal if they don't see a dramatic improvement in the next half dozen games.

[Guinness]

My two cents from all of this, immediately after without much time to digest:

1) Sorry, but Sullivan isn't going anywhere. While he didn't come out and say it, he believes the effort and work is there from Sullivan. He also made a comment that he believes he is the right guy for player development, and Dubas mentioned MULTIPLE TIMES about getting younger. Sullivan's here. It doesn't seem like even a playoff miss is going to get him fired.

In my opinion, in almost all cases a GM is not going to tip his hand about what his plans are for his coaching staff, especially in the middle of a season. He may have said that he thinks that Sully is "putting in the effort and work", but that doesn't mean that his efforts and work are bearing fruit. You just don't publicly say that you're thinking about firing a guy who is in charge of your roster. You publicly say it when you have decided to do it, and already told him he's out.

Dubas was even hedgy about whether or not EK was a part of "the core". The guy is - gratefully - very cagey. As much as I, as a fan, would like to know what's coming down the road, I understand that to negotiate the best deals, some of your thoughts as a GM need to stay between your ears until you pull the trigger.

We don't know, and I think maybe even Dubas doesn't know until he's made the roster moves he'll end up making, what if anything he's going to do with the coaching staff. And I'm fine with that.

[dark_forces]

My two cents from all of this, immediately after without much time to digest:

1) Sorry, but Sullivan isn't going anywhere. While he didn't come out and say it, he believes the effort and work is there from Sullivan. He also made a comment that he believes he is the right guy for player development, and Dubas mentioned MULTIPLE TIMES about getting younger. Sullivan's here. It doesn't seem like even a playoff miss is going to get him fired.

In my opinion, in almost all cases a GM is not going to tip his hand about what his plans are for his coaching staff, especially in the middle of a season. He may have said that he thinks that Sully is "putting in the effort and work", but that doesn't mean that his efforts and work are bearing fruit. You just don't publicly say that you're thinking about firing a guy who is in charge of your roster. You publicly say it when you have decided to do it, and already told him he's out.

Dubas was even hedgy about whether or not EK was a part of "the core". The guy is - gratefully - very cagey. As much as I, as a fan, would like to know what's coming down the road, I understand that to negotiate the best deals, some of your thoughts as a GM need to stay between your ears until you pull the trigger.

We don't know, and I think maybe even Dubas doesn't know until he's made the roster moves he'll end up making, what if anything he's going to do with the coaching staff. And I'm fine with that.

I think the direction that Dubas is indicating—like many here have written—is to begin to send out the 30+ non-core players in exchange for younger players/prospects and picks.
(Guentzel) Firstly, this leads me to believe that Jake will likely be dealt for futures, however, those futures could then be dealt elsewhere for a young NHL player(s), or close to ready player(s) who may play regularly next season.
(Smith) Same for Reilly Smith, who should be able to recoup the 3rd round pick we originally sent away.
(Eller) I also think Eller is likely gone as well, again, probably for a pick.
(Rakell) I think Rakell stays for the time being because of his contract and because he has shown some success with Sid. If Jake's gone, that's probably where he plays for the rest of the season.
(POJ) I also wouldn't be shocked to see POJ packaged with another asset to bring back an extra pick or another team's middling/unable to take the next step prospect.
(Nedeljkovic) Because of the pricey goalie market, I could see another team offering a 3rd round pick for him, which again could be used to stockpile futures that could be pooled in some form and exchanged for younger players.