Official GDT: Pens @ Flames 3/2/24

[DelPen]

Do I understand correctly, if we finish bottom 10, we keep the 1st round pick this year?

Might be the best way to salvage something this year.

it means we have the option of keeping it. at some point SJ gets a 1st rounder. The gamble is will we be this bad next year and even if we aren't will the prospects be better at say 20ish in 2025 than 8-10 in 2024?

[BlackNGold4Life]

Just a **** play all the way around and no reason for Gravws to out there 4 on 4 with a short PP against. Rierden dispatches the D Men and he sucks too.

Smith
Graves


Both need to go at the deadline.

[maopens]

Karlsson has always been suspect (at best) on defense. He has always hidden it with his offensive output.

Letang has been good for much of this year but historically, he can be very questionable in his own end and with the puck.

But Graves was supposed to be the next Dumoulin. He looks like he has never played defense before, and yet he has never been an offensive defenseman. What happened to him?

[BurghThing]

Just a **** play all the way around and no reason for Gravws to out there 4 on 4 with a short PP against. Rierden dispatches the D Men and he sucks too.

Smith
Graves


Both need to go at the deadline.

They all need to go at the deadline. Everyone not named Crosby.

[Zalapski33]

Pens looked lost in the entire 3rd Period.No forecheck,bad turnovers,lack of any Offensive Pressure.
Jarry was terrible.3 Goals allowed in the 3rd Period and was awful on every one.
Kris Letang simply played as bad as can be,3 Goals on the ice where his lack of effort and clueless decision making cost his team.Indefensible.
Another game with 2 "Top 6 Wingers" gave them zip.Smith and Rakell were of no impact at all.
To lose that game after Calgary did nothing for 40 minutes is just more glaring proof of the lack of any mental toughness from this team.An embarrassment.

This loss should put to rest any thought of a Playoff Push.No more discussion about games in hand,getting to their game,liking the effort,etc.
The fact is when a key veteran guy like Letang can be that weak in a game like this(and was bad against Seattle the game before) shows the comfort level that exists from knowing the Coaching Staff won't hold him accountable for it.And the fact that they aren't being held accountable for the year long PP failure and system that doesn't hold up in the current NHL is even a bigger indictment.

[Zalapski33]

Karlsson has always been suspect (at best) on defense. He has always hidden it with his offensive output.

Letang has been good for much of this year but historically, he can be very questionable in his own end and with the puck.

But Graves was supposed to be the next Dumoulin. He looks like he has never played defense before, and yet he has never been an offensive defenseman. What happened to him?

All good points.The worst of Letang was on display in the 3rd Period and cost them the game along with Jarry playing poorly.

Sully gave Graves a lot if ice time in the 3rd Period and had him out there with Letang a number of times.For whatever reason he decided to go with that move.

[Maestro]

58+27 = -1

[flame]

Most painful team to watch I’ve ever seen. At least the bad teams of the early 2000s were supposed to be bad and you expected it and you knew you’d get a top pick. This is pathetic

[Pens4Life]

Graves is just LeTurnover 2.0 ,what a dumb move on that possesion.. Letang f...it up yeah as last,but f...me Graves,get him off the team via trade or whatever.. worst Pens D this year by faaaar even with all Letang braindead mistakes

[KG]

It’s over. Time to shut it down. Trade someone, fire someone. This team doesn’t have the heart or drive anymore. Same as last season when their season was on the line.

You cannot bring Sullivan back next season.

[mariojr]

The decline and fall of a once great franchise is too painful to watch, which is why I don't, but THIS, THIS hurts even to read about.

I went to bed last night after checking the game score and seeing Pens up 3-1 in the 3rd. To have a two-goal lead that late and blow it in regulation????? Not to get even a point out of it?????

The whole team needs blown up. I wouldn't keep anybody. Crosby deserves another chance at a ring, and so does Letang. Karlsson could be a good offensive weapon on the right team and should have trade value. So should Guentzel. So should Pettersson. Maybe even Rust. Malkin's just done, dead weight, needs to retire. Smith, Rakell, Graves, forget about it.

And Sullivan needs to go. Definitely, HCMS needs to go.

Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Which stage are you in? I think I'm past bargaining, still a bit angry but mostly angry at being depressed. Getting to acceptance. This team is history, and it will be a long, long time before another Penguins team rises that can truly compete. They may never win another Cup in my lifetime (I'm 57), but I figure in a few years, with the right approach, completely tanking the next two seasons, they could assemble enough talent to at least compete.



Edit: Forgot to mention -- Jarry should be traded as well, as he likely has some value to some team out there.

Edit again: Most of these deals won't happen, because of No trade/no movement clauses or players not wanting to leave where they are. The Pens probably won't trade Jarry for instance; they invested a lot in him with the recent signing. More likely they trade Nedeljkovic. Still, for the stars (other than Malkin), they might have a chance to earn another ring with another team, and so that offer should be made to them.

[Puck-Lurker]

The decline and fall of a once great franchise is too painful to watch, which is why I don't, but THIS, THIS hurts even to read about.

I went to bed last night after checking the game score and seeing Pens up 3-1 in the 3rd. To have a two-goal lead that late and blow it in regulation????? Not to get even a point out of it?????

The whole team needs blown up. I wouldn't keep anybody. Crosby deserves another chance at a ring, and so does Letang. Karlsson could be a good offensive weapon on the right team and should have trade value. So should Guentzel. So should Pettersson. Maybe even Rust. Malkin's just done, dead weight, needs to retire. Smith, Rakell, Graves, forget about it.

And Sullivan needs to go. Definitely, HCMS needs to go.

Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Which stage are you in? I think I'm past bargaining, still a bit angry but mostly angry at being depressed. Getting to acceptance. This team is history, and it will be a long, long time before another Penguins team rises that can truly compete. They may never win another Cup in my lifetime (I'm 57), but I figure in a few years, with the right approach, completely tanking the next two seasons, they could assemble enough talent to at least compete.

Edit: Forgot to mention -- Jarry should be traded as well, as he likely has some value to some team out there.

Malkin retiring, or buying out, does absolutely nothing. 6.1M on the books for 2 more years unless by some weird circumstance he is traded. At most you get a roster spot back. Like Carter, he doesn't want to leave and has every right to serve out his contract here.

Personally, I'm in the acceptance stage. We're a team that was and that's okay. GMKD came in, rolled the dice and made some swings, changes were needed on the roster and well, it's not enough. I think he had every reason to also fire Sully, but to be honest, I don't think that gets us to the playoffs either.

Ship the old guys out and get some young guys and picks. If that gets us in swinging distance of a playoffs scenario next year, that's nice. If not, I'm fine.

[mariojr]

Malkin retiring, or buying out, does absolutely nothing. 6.1M on the books for 2 more years unless by some weird circumstance he is traded. At most you get a roster spot back. Like Carter, he doesn't want to leave and has every right to serve out his contract here.

Personally, I'm in the acceptance stage. We're a team that was and that's okay. GMKD came in, rolled the dice and made some swings, changes were needed on the roster and well, it's not enough. I think he had every reason to also fire Sully, but to be honest, I don't think that gets us to the playoffs either.

Ship the old guys out and get some young guys and picks. If that gets us in swinging distance of a playoffs scenario next year, that's nice. If not, I'm fine.

Based on Seth Rorabaugh's column today, I don't really see major trades happening. One thing I forgot to mention is the Pens' asking price on some players, like we're hearing with Guentzel, might be too high. The fact is, management isn't yet ready to clean house. Other than maybe Guentzel if they come down in price, they'll make a few minor moves, maybe ship out Reilly Smith if he'll waive his limited NTC, maybe Ned, Ruhwedel, etc. Graves is going to be an albatross for 5 more years. Not sure what happens if Malkin retires at the end of this season -- doesn't that money come off the books? It's moot, probably, he'll play out his contract and has every right to, but that doesn't mean he has to be on the top power play. That's where firing Sully might come in; a new head coach won't be as beholden to the stars that got him two Cups. But maybe it's not worth it. The Pens are heading into Blackhawks territory with aging stars and underachievers. We're probably years away from even the start of a rebuild.

[Antonio]

Nope because malkin was 35 years old or more at signing, so it is a Jeff Carter special. Nothing takes the contract off the books for us.

[Puck-Lurker]

Malkin retiring, or buying out, does absolutely nothing. 6.1M on the books for 2 more years unless by some weird circumstance he is traded. At most you get a roster spot back. Like Carter, he doesn't want to leave and has every right to serve out his contract here.

Personally, I'm in the acceptance stage. We're a team that was and that's okay. GMKD came in, rolled the dice and made some swings, changes were needed on the roster and well, it's not enough. I think he had every reason to also fire Sully, but to be honest, I don't think that gets us to the playoffs either.

Ship the old guys out and get some young guys and picks. If that gets us in swinging distance of a playoffs scenario next year, that's nice. If not, I'm fine.

Based on Seth Rorabaugh's column today, I don't really see major trades happening. One thing I forgot to mention is the Pens' asking price on some players, like we're hearing with Guentzel, might be too high. The fact is, management isn't yet ready to clean house. Other than maybe Guentzel if they come down in price, they'll make a few minor moves, maybe ship out Reilly Smith if he'll waive his limited NTC, maybe Ned, Ruhwedel, etc. Graves is going to be an albatross for 5 more years. Not sure what happens if Malkin retires at the end of this season -- doesn't that money come off the books? It's moot, probably, he'll play out his contract and has every right to, but that doesn't mean he has to be on the top power play. That's where firing Sully might come in; a new head coach won't be as beholden to the stars that got him two Cups. But maybe it's not worth it. The Pens are heading into Blackhawks territory with aging stars and underachievers. We're probably years away from even the start of a rebuild.

Carter, Malkin and Letang are all on 35+ contracts. Retiring or buyout does nothing and the cap hit stays on the books.

[Ericf]

Nope because malkin was 35 years old or more at signing, so it is a Jeff Carter special. Nothing takes the contract off the books for us.

Not entirely true. If Geno were to retire, for example, we could trade his contract to another team with his permission. Lot of teams would want this, either to reach the floor or to create more space. Tampa did it with Seabrook’s contract

[FLPensFan]

Malkin retiring, or buying out, does absolutely nothing. 6.1M on the books for 2 more years unless by some weird circumstance he is traded. At most you get a roster spot back. Like Carter, he doesn't want to leave and has every right to serve out his contract here.

Personally, I'm in the acceptance stage. We're a team that was and that's okay. GMKD came in, rolled the dice and made some swings, changes were needed on the roster and well, it's not enough. I think he had every reason to also fire Sully, but to be honest, I don't think that gets us to the playoffs either.

Ship the old guys out and get some young guys and picks. If that gets us in swinging distance of a playoffs scenario next year, that's nice. If not, I'm fine.

Based on Seth Rorabaugh's column today, I don't really see major trades happening. One thing I forgot to mention is the Pens' asking price on some players, like we're hearing with Guentzel, might be too high. The fact is, management isn't yet ready to clean house. Other than maybe Guentzel if they come down in price, they'll make a few minor moves, maybe ship out Reilly Smith if he'll waive his limited NTC, maybe Ned, Ruhwedel, etc. Graves is going to be an albatross for 5 more years. Not sure what happens if Malkin retires at the end of this season -- doesn't that money come off the books? It's moot, probably, he'll play out his contract and has every right to, but that doesn't mean he has to be on the top power play. That's where firing Sully might come in; a new head coach won't be as beholden to the stars that got him two Cups. But maybe it's not worth it. The Pens are heading into Blackhawks territory with aging stars and underachievers. We're probably years away from even the start of a rebuild.

You have a link to the article? I haven't seen anything new by Seth in a week. I don't think there is any full scrapping of the team coming, but Guentzel, Smith, Ned, Eller, Acciari, Ruhwedel could all have some value out there at this deadline.

I don't think Graves goes anywhere. With that long of a commitment they are kind of stuck to see if he improves dramatically next year, which has been known to happen with newly acquired Penguins d-men.

If those 6 players I mentioned above got traded, corresponding moves:
--Guetnzel out, young player from the trade in
--Smith out, player received in return in
--Ned out, Blomqvist or Hellberg in
--Eller out, Poulin in
--Acciari out, Zohorna in
--Ruhwedel out, I'd probably give Jack St. Ivany a shot. He drew some rave reviews from Dubas earlier in the year.

Biggest thing is, our depth may be a little light the rest of the season...which may be a good thing to get us closer to the bottom and a higher pick.

[FLPensFan]

Nope because malkin was 35 years old or more at signing, so it is a Jeff Carter special. Nothing takes the contract off the books for us.

Not entirely true. If Geno were to retire, for example, we could trade his contract to another team with his permission. Lot of teams would want this, either to reach the floor or to create more space. Tampa did it with Seabrook’s contract

Seabrook was an LTI-Retire. He didn't outright retire. He was too injured to keep playing and was on persistent LTIR. If Malkin outright retires, it's like a buyout or retained salary transaction...you can't move those.

You'd have to get Malkin to agree to be traded then retire on the new team. And that would mess up the "I only was on one team my whole career" theme that they've been fighting so hard for.

[Antonio]

Yeah sorry I was just trying to be simplistic about it without delving into all the random hypothetical scenarios that are never going to happen that could theoretically get rid of his contract. I think we all know that for all intents and purposes, we have that contract on the books for 2 more years after this one.

[Puck-Lurker]

Yeah sorry I was just trying to be simplistic about it without delving into all the random hypothetical scenarios that are never going to happen that could theoretically get rid of his contract. I think we all know that for all intents and purposes, we have that contract on the books for 2 more years after this one.

There were many scenarios proposed to ditch Carter and we know how that ended. Same with Geno, he's going to stay.


Worst case scenario, we keep pretty much everyone, get nothing, start the next season with further depleted assets and the same coach.

[Ericf]

Nope because malkin was 35 years old or more at signing, so it is a Jeff Carter special. Nothing takes the contract off the books for us.

Not entirely true. If Geno were to retire, for example, we could trade his contract to another team with his permission. Lot of teams would want this, either to reach the floor or to create more space. Tampa did it with Seabrook’s contract

Seabrook was an LTI-Retire. He didn't outright retire. He was too injured to keep playing and was on persistent LTIR. If Malkin outright retires, it's like a buyout or retained salary transaction...you can't move those.

You'd have to get Malkin to agree to be traded then retire on the new team. And that would mess up the "I only was on one team my whole career" theme that they've been fighting so hard for.

Yeah but it’s very easy to LTIRetire after 17 years in the NHL. Just look at Geno’s knees after three surgeries. I don’t think the Pens would have a problem moving his contract, particularly with only one year left at the end of next season

[Maestro]

[lemieuxReturns]

I predict a lopsided loss tomorrow against Edmonton. I can just sense it.

5-1. Sid scores.

Still have a chance with this one.

[lemieuxReturns]

Nevermind