ISIS Crisis

[BigMcK]

Looks like it's about time to change that five year travel agenda that we were dreaming of.

*shaking fist*

[Gaucho]

Iraqi and Kurdish forces have apparently liberated the besieged city of Amerli.

[Willie Kool]

A couple of pretty good articles about Saudi influence on the situation, the second is an excerpt from Patrick Cockburn’s new book The Jihadis Return: ISIS and the New Sunni Uprising:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair- ... 17157.html

Abd al-Wahhab demanded conformity -- a conformity that was to be demonstrated in physical and tangible ways. He argued that all Muslims must individually pledge their allegiance to a single Muslim leader (a Caliph, if there were one). Those who would not conform to this view should be killed, their wives and daughters violated, and their possessions confiscated, he wrote.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/why ... i_20140822

In 2009, eight years after 9/11, a cable from the U.S. secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, revealed by WikiLeaks, complained that donors in Saudi Arabia constituted the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide. But despite this private admission, the U.S. and Western Europeans continued to remain indifferent to Saudi preachers whose message, spread to millions by satellite TV, YouTube, and Twitter, called for the killing of the Shia as heretics.

[DMcGrew]

VICE News did a short documentary on ISIS. They actually interviewed ISIS fighters and drove around with them. Flat out insane IMO. The saddest/sickest part of this video is what they are teaching their children. Just incredibly wrong.


[youtube][/youtube]

[slappybrown]

I vote to blow up the bad guys whether it's kosher or not.

While ISIS is certainly "bad guys", you do understand that the definition of "bad guys" -- particularly in the Middle East -- is a constantly evolving definition? In contrast, the expansion of executive authority only goes one way -- bigger and bigger -- all in the name of catching bad guys who were once good guys but not might be bad guys again depending on what the other guys who are also bad guys might do.

[MRandall25]

I vote to blow up the bad guys whether it's kosher or not.

While ISIS is certainly "bad guys", you do understand that the definition of "bad guys" -- particularly in the Middle East -- is a constantly evolving definition? In contrast, the expansion of executive authority only goes one way -- bigger and bigger -- all in the name of catching bad guys who were once good guys but not might be bad guys again depending on what the other guys who are also bad guys might do.

One of the groups fighting against ISIS, PKK, was labeled by the US government as "the biggest threat to ME security" a few months ago. Now that group is asking us for aid to fight against ISIS.

[columbia]

Yeah, there's a reason people were saying don't get involved in Syria...among the many reasons, who the **** would have the US been arming.

[PensFanInDC]

I vote to blow up the bad guys whether it's kosher or not.

While ISIS is certainly "bad guys", you do understand that the definition of "bad guys" -- particularly in the Middle East -- is a constantly evolving definition? In contrast, the expansion of executive authority only goes one way -- bigger and bigger -- all in the name of catching bad guys who were once good guys but not might be bad guys again depending on what the other guys who are also bad guys might do.

One of the groups fighting against ISIS, PKK, was labeled by the US government as "the biggest threat to ME security" a few months ago. Now that group is asking us for aid to fight against ISIS.

And this is how we funded, armed, and trained ISIS. Circle of life...

[Kaizer]

I cant really muster much humanitarian sympathy for the region anymore. the little bit left knows the right thing to do is to help somehow, but most of my gut says to just leave it the **** alone, and if whoever comes out on top is extreme enough to be a threat, napalm the whole god damn area for the good of the rest of the world.
sometimes my actual feelings sicken me.

[newarenanow]

I vote to blow up the bad guys whether it's kosher or not.

While ISIS is certainly "bad guys", you do understand that the definition of "bad guys" -- particularly in the Middle East -- is a constantly evolving definition? In contrast, the expansion of executive authority only goes one way -- bigger and bigger -- all in the name of catching bad guys who were once good guys but not might be bad guys again depending on what the other guys who are also bad guys might do.

I wish you'd go over there so we could blow you up.

[eddysnake]

Video Claims to Show Beheading of U.S. Reporter Steven Sotloff by ISIS
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/world ... ution.html

[slappybrown]

I vote to blow up the bad guys whether it's kosher or not.

While ISIS is certainly "bad guys", you do understand that the definition of "bad guys" -- particularly in the Middle East -- is a constantly evolving definition? In contrast, the expansion of executive authority only goes one way -- bigger and bigger -- all in the name of catching bad guys who were once good guys but not might be bad guys again depending on what the other guys who are also bad guys might do.

I wish you'd go over there so we could blow you up.

[newarenanow]

I vote to blow up the bad guys whether it's kosher or not.

While ISIS is certainly "bad guys", you do understand that the definition of "bad guys" -- particularly in the Middle East -- is a constantly evolving definition? In contrast, the expansion of executive authority only goes one way -- bigger and bigger -- all in the name of catching bad guys who were once good guys but not might be bad guys again depending on what the other guys who are also bad guys might do.

I wish you'd go over there so we could blow you up.

Obama is coming for you.

[stopper40]

I vote to blow up the bad guys whether it's kosher or not.

While ISIS is certainly "bad guys", you do understand that the definition of "bad guys" -- particularly in the Middle East -- is a constantly evolving definition? In contrast, the expansion of executive authority only goes one way -- bigger and bigger -- all in the name of catching bad guys who were once good guys but not might be bad guys again depending on what the other guys who are also bad guys might do.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend

[newarenanow]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/04/world/mea ... ?hpt=hp_t1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Former ISIS fighter talks to CNN. Says that they want to establish an Arab state, and from there, start spreading to other countries, including Western ones. Also, foreign fighters are looking to carry out attacks back in their homeland.

[PensFanInDC]

Nothing to see here...

[columbia]

no.

There were a lot of complaints here that al-Awlaki was droned without due process (Shyster, Tif, EPP, Shaf etc from what I remember but correct me if I'm wrong).

My opinion on that remains the same. Targeted drone strikes are, imo, an immoral and illegal exercise of executive authority. There may well be a construct where they are acceptable, but they way they've been conducted the last ten years is simply not kosher.

Just so I can better understand where you're coming from on this:

Regarding a US citizen, who has actively joined the ISIS forces in Syria/Iraq. Would it be ok for the US or one its allies (and believe me I'm skeptical of using that term for this situation) to take out said person through a non-drone based attack?

[Kaizer]

I wouldnt care if they took them out with a drone in their sleep.

[Green Eggs and Ham]

I vote to blow up the bad guys whether it's kosher or not.

While ISIS is certainly "bad guys", you do understand that the definition of "bad guys" -- particularly in the Middle East -- is a constantly evolving definition? In contrast, the expansion of executive authority only goes one way -- bigger and bigger -- all in the name of catching bad guys who were once good guys but not might be bad guys again depending on what the other guys who are also bad guys might do.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend

Unless he is your enemy...

[canaan]

why isnt this thread called crISIS?

[DelPen]

ISIS is declaring themselves a state. Taking out someone who was a US citizen who pretty much needs to pledge allegeince to ISIS to fight with them is no different than people with German heritage going to fight with the Nazis in WWII. If our policy is to wipe out our enemies with drone attacks then they should not be immune. But if you want to argue the genral policy of using drones that's different. But I don't see how someone can be fine taking out someone born in Syria fighting for ISIS but not taking out someone from MN fighting for them too.

[Gaucho]

It's a huge difference, because no-one acknowledges their statehood.

[DelPen]

It's a huge difference, because no-one acknowledges their statehood.

But they do and so do the people joining them.

[Gaucho]

It's a huge difference, because no-one acknowledges their statehood.

But they do and so do the people joining them.

So you would like the rest of the world to acknowledge their statehood and deal with them accordingly?

[Factorial]

What difference does it make if they are recognized as a state?