Better Call Saul

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shmenguin
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shmenguin »

also, i hope this series covers the fact that...

BrBa spoiler...
Spoiler:
walt died in that friggin car in new hampshire, and never made it back home
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ulf
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by ulf »

Wait what
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shmenguin
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shmenguin »

ulf wrote:
Wait what
Spoiler:
gilligan won't admit it, but that finale was a dream sequence. he died in that car outside the bar. the rest was fantasy.
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shafnutz05
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shafnutz05 »

shmenguin wrote:
ulf wrote:
Wait what
Spoiler:
gilligan won't admit it, but that finale was a dream sequence. he died in that car outside the bar. the rest was fantasy.
Spoiler:
The finale is certainly fantastic enough to suggest that
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shmenguin
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shmenguin »

shafnutz05 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
ulf wrote:
Wait what
Spoiler:
gilligan won't admit it, but that finale was a dream sequence. he died in that car outside the bar. the rest was fantasy.
Spoiler:
The finale is certainly fantastic enough to suggest that
Spoiler:
the blue lights of the cop cars approaching outside the bar were reminiscent of the blue lights flashing as he "died" in the nazi lab.
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ulf
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by ulf »

Interesting. Never thought of it that way
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DudeMan2766
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by DudeMan2766 »

. deleted cuz shad
Last edited by DudeMan2766 on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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shafnutz05
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shafnutz05 »

I would spoiler tag BrBa spoilers in this thread since there are at least one or two folks that haven't watched the other series....
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shmenguin
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shmenguin »

BrBa continued...
Spoiler:
the popular theory is that it was a courtesy to cranston to give him a hero's send off. gilligan denied this is the case, but that's consistent with him trying to please the actors or the network.

the scene with walt seeing Jr. for the last time was particularly dream-like. and jesse's getaway to greener pastures was total fantasy...not to mention the other 1,000 things that went exactly right for him.
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Malkamaniac
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by Malkamaniac »

shafnutz05 wrote:
I would spoiler tag BrBa spoilers in this thread since there are at least one or two folks that haven't watched the other series....
I"m mid season 3. Trying to watch as fast as possible.
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Dickie Dunn
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by Dickie Dunn »

shmenguin wrote:
BrBa continued...
Spoiler:
the popular theory is that it was a courtesy to cranston to give him a hero's send off. gilligan denied this is the case, but that's consistent with him trying to please the actors or the network.

the scene with walt seeing Jr. for the last time was particularly dream-like. and jesse's getaway to greener pastures was total fantasy...not to mention the other 1,000 things that went exactly right for him.
Image
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Gaucho
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by Gaucho »

[youtube][/youtube]
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shmenguin
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shmenguin »

Part of this is that I hated the finale and want a way to erase it from existence.
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DudeMan2766
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by DudeMan2766 »

shafnutz05 wrote:
I would spoiler tag BrBa spoilers in this thread since there are at least one or two folks that haven't watched the other series....
Yeah I'm usually pretty good with that but had assumed people were coming to this thread knowing there's going to be BB talk. I'll spoiler anything from now on tho. The one I posted was a pretty big one. May even delete it
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Dickie Dunn
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by Dickie Dunn »

shmenguin wrote:
Part of this is that I hated the finale and want a way to erase it from existence.
I loved the finale and hate your make believe world.
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skullman80
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by skullman80 »

Yeah I thought Breaking Bad ended about as good as it could have.
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tifosi77
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by tifosi77 »

I think that theory about the finale of BraBa was first publicly made by Norm McDonald, of all people.
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Dickie Dunn
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by Dickie Dunn »

So, shmenguin is Norm McDonald?
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shmenguin
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shmenguin »

tifosi77 wrote:
I think that theory about the finale of BraBa was first publicly made by Norm McDonald, of all people.
nah...norm was referencing an article by some lady in the new yorker or new york times or something.
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mac5155
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by mac5155 »

That's a great, plausible theory. Why ain't I dat smart
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tifosi77
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by tifosi77 »

It sucks, because Gilligan has said many times that particular theory is not true. Because if it were true, then I think it would make the finale beautifully poetic and maybe one of the best series finales of all time. If it's not true, it's just a good episode of a great series in which a lot of highly improbable things synch up for the protagonist.
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shmenguin
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by shmenguin »

tifosi77 wrote:
It sucks, because Gilligan has said many times that particular theory is not true. Because if it were true, then I think it would make the finale beautifully poetic and maybe one of the best series finales of all time. If it's not true, it's just a good episode of a great series in which a lot of highly improbable things synch up for the protagonist.
i've said this before, but the issue with BrBa finale is...
Spoiler:
it's wildly inconsistent with the rest of the series. it's not a redemption story. it was about walt evolving into his natural self. and guess what...he's "Bad". he didn't deserve a hero's ending. and he certainly didn't do anything to earn his wife not calling the cops on him in the finale, by the way. once he poisoned that kid in season 4 or whatever, it was game over. we were supposed to either stop rooting for him, or we were supposed to ask ourselves the tough question of why we were still on his side.

and if there was some arc of redemption, it can't be crammed into a finale like that. so with that in mind, if this is the finale gilligan wanted, and it's supposed to be taken as is, then it's not consistent with his story telling abilities. he's better than that. so while he'll never admit it, i think it's either explicitly a fantasy OR it's something intentionally ambiguous to give everyone what they want...which would be a cop out, but still better than walt saving the day and going out on his terms
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DudeMan2766
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by DudeMan2766 »

shmenguin wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
It sucks, because Gilligan has said many times that particular theory is not true. Because if it were true, then I think it would make the finale beautifully poetic and maybe one of the best series finales of all time. If it's not true, it's just a good episode of a great series in which a lot of highly improbable things synch up for the protagonist.
i've said this before, but the issue with BrBa finale is...
Spoiler:
it's wildly inconsistent with the rest of the series. it's not a redemption story. it was about walt evolving into his natural self. and guess what...he's "Bad". he didn't deserve a hero's ending. and he certainly didn't do anything to earn his wife not calling the cops on him in the finale, by the way. once he poisoned that kid in season 4 or whatever, it was game over. we were supposed to either stop rooting for him, or we were supposed to ask ourselves the tough question of why we were still on his side.

and if there was some arc of redemption, it can't be crammed into a finale like that. so with that in mind, if this is the finale gilligan wanted, and it's supposed to be taken as is, then it's not consistent with his story telling abilities. he's better than that. so while he'll never admit it, i think it's either explicitly a fantasy OR it's something intentionally ambiguous to give everyone what they want...which would be a cop out, but still better than walt saving the day and going out on his terms
That's the thing that kind of fascinated me about BB. All these characters were bad people, but you find yourself rooting for them in someway. Mike was a cold blooded killer, but everyone ends up loving him. He was a corrupt cop too, but he's funny, you see him with his granddaughter, the way he ends up trying to protect Jesse...even Gus was like able at times. It's just all how the individual perceives tehem and it made for good discussion during the shows run. I mean, look at the thread were in. Saul was the snake in the grass lawyer type we all hate who consistently put criminals back out on the streets and he gets his own series. It was just really well done with all the main characters. You never just love or hate them all the way thru, it was constantly playing your mind and emotions
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tifosi77
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by tifosi77 »

Exactly. It's easy to forget when you're watching, but Michael Corleone was a gangster, after all.
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largegarlic
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Re: Better Call Saul

Post by largegarlic »

shmenguin wrote:
tifosi77 wrote:
It sucks, because Gilligan has said many times that particular theory is not true. Because if it were true, then I think it would make the finale beautifully poetic and maybe one of the best series finales of all time. If it's not true, it's just a good episode of a great series in which a lot of highly improbable things synch up for the protagonist.
i've said this before, but the issue with BrBa finale is...
Spoiler:
it's wildly inconsistent with the rest of the series. it's not a redemption story. it was about walt evolving into his natural self. and guess what...he's "Bad". he didn't deserve a hero's ending. and he certainly didn't do anything to earn his wife not calling the cops on him in the finale, by the way. once he poisoned that kid in season 4 or whatever, it was game over. we were supposed to either stop rooting for him, or we were supposed to ask ourselves the tough question of why we were still on his side.

and if there was some arc of redemption, it can't be crammed into a finale like that. so with that in mind, if this is the finale gilligan wanted, and it's supposed to be taken as is, then it's not consistent with his story telling abilities. he's better than that. so while he'll never admit it, i think it's either explicitly a fantasy OR it's something intentionally ambiguous to give everyone what they want...which would be a cop out, but still better than walt saving the day and going out on his terms
I get what shmenguin is saying...
Spoiler:
And there are plausibility issues with the finale, but you could also say that about plenty of other parts of the story (e.g. the train heist).

The main difference in my interpretation, though, is that it wasn't a redemption arc. Walt went back because he found out someone else was cooking his product, and he couldn't stand it. When talking to Skyler, he finally dropped the pretense that this was primarily about providing for his family. And I think he would have killed Jesse had Jesse actually been a partner with Uncle Jack as opposed to a slave. There was a shred of humanity left in him, so he tried to set it up to leave money for his kids, see the baby and let Jesse get away, but I took the very end to make it clear that he primarily came back for his "baby blue," to protect and ultimately bring to full fruition the mythic figure of Heisenberg.

But that's the beauty of the show. It's so rich that there are multiple plausible interpretations of the ending and the overall themes to be taken from it.
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