The Jarry Problem

[Maestro]

Colorado but I don’t see a trade that would work. They have 6 mil in space now but only due to injuries.

But at 50% retention anything is possible.

[FLPensFan]

So my question is...why could tons of casual fans see signing him to that contract was a non starter before it was signed but the million dollar "experts" running the show could not avoid that mistake?

I read again just this week that the goalie market was terrible that off season and they "had no choice."

That summer:

--Cam Talbot signed a 1 year, 1M AAV contract
--Anthony Stolarz signed a 1 year, 1.1M AAV contract
--Ilya Samsonov, 1.8M 1 year contract

That's really all the potential options that were out there.

If you look at all the other players that signed (Andersen, Raanta, Quick, Korpisalo, Brossoit, Varlamov, Swayman, etc), almost all of these guys were re-signing with their previous teams. So, there really wasn't a great option there. I would have taken Talbot on that 1 year deal to go along with Ned. Then Dubas would have learned that Blomqvist was ready, and had Ned and Blomqvist this season.

So, the options were super limited....but throwing a 5 year deal with a bloated salary at Jarry wasn't the solution either. Should have stuck with a 1-2 year term, even if they had to go to 6M....or found a goalie deal via trade.

[IntangibleBeer]

The best option may be putting Jarry on LTIR so we can have some cap relief.

Surely, he can be diagnosed as having torn his motivator cuff, or a sprained heartilage.

Died of broken heart.

I agree. He needs to go to WBS. I don’t think he will get better. The team needs to lose his contract, one way or another.

[FLPensFan]

The best option may be putting Jarry on LTIR so we can have some cap relief.

Surely, he can be diagnosed as having torn his motivator cuff, or a sprained heartilage.

Died of broken heart.

I agree. He needs to go to WBS. I don’t think he will get better. The team needs to lose his contract, one way or another.

Hire a PI and find some dirt on him that is grounds for contract termination.

[BigMcK]

The best option may be putting Jarry on LTIR so we can have some cap relief.

Surely, he can be diagnosed as having torn his motivator cuff, or a sprained heartilage.

Died of broken heart.

I agree. He needs to go to WBS. I don’t think he will get better. The team needs to lose his contract, one way or another.

Hire a PI and find some dirt on him that is grounds for contract termination.

Would a case of 'impersonating a goalie' suffice?

[Puck-Lurker]

Here was the real option last summer.

Sign Ned.
Promote Blomqvist.
Sign Larsson.
Invite Murashov to the US.
Gauthier.
Pick up some dude to play minor league hockey.

Done.

[BigMcK]

Here was the real option last summer.

Sign Ned.
Promote Blomqvist.
Sign Larsson.
Invite Murashov to the US.
Gauthier.
Pick up some dude to play minor league hockey.

Done.

While I would agree, this scenario doesn't take into account that the face of the franchise had a contract to negotiate that needed to show some sort of stability to the roster that the rebuild process wasn't going to be a total teardown and rebuild where the team (player) had zero chance of getting into the playoffs before retirement.

Sell the above to Crosby and you would do well selling used cars or timeshares.

[Pens4Life]

Maybe we solve Jarry problem somehow,but Graves problem will still be here.. I hope we can resolve it asap..

Maybe Jarry needs just change of scenery..he is in best goalies years, 28-33..

[Puck-Lurker]

Here was the real option last summer.

Sign Ned.
Promote Blomqvist.
Sign Larsson.
Invite Murashov to the US.
Gauthier.
Pick up some dude to play minor league hockey.

Done.

While I would agree, this scenario doesn't take into account that the face of the franchise had a contract to negotiate that needed to show some sort of stability to the roster that the rebuild process wasn't going to be a total teardown and rebuild where the team (player) had zero chance of getting into the playoffs before retirement.

Sell the above to Crosby and you would do well selling used cars or timeshares.

I don't know Sid personally, so I couldn't tell you how this would go. The pitch has to start with Crosby knowing Dubas has a (tough) job to do, I think that was a given this offseason, but perhaps not as much the year before.

You tell Sid, look we're not happy with goaltending from last season; Jarry will want a raise and it doesn't make sense. We got some young guys coming up, might not be ready this year but they will be getting there. In the meantime we will pick up a few goalies on the cheap on short term deals and make some room for.. oh I don't know.. an upgrade over <name scrub in the bottom 6> on a short term deal.

Then you start by offering Jarry his current (now previous AAV) for another 2 years. And slightly less AAV if he wants more term on the deal. Take it or leave it. Jarry moves on, signs with the Oilers or whatever, craps the bed and disappears from hockey.

I think Sid will frown and maybe not understand, but he might go along with it. I dunno, I'm not a GM and not suited to be one, but signing Jarry for 5M+ for 5 years is a howler.

[FLPensFan]

Here was the real option last summer.

Sign Ned.
Promote Blomqvist.
Sign Larsson.
Invite Murashov to the US.
Gauthier.
Pick up some dude to play minor league hockey.

Done.

Too much hindsight in all of this.
--I don't think the Penguins have been happy with Jarry for awhile, but I do think the tipping point was last year, staring down the defense, and losing his job for the last 11 games. Without that happening, he may not be held in low regard by management.
--Blomqvist had 1 game in WBS going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Murashov was under contract in the MHL/KHL going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Gauthier was an average goalie, splitting time between ECHL and AHL. If anything, he was on a downward trajectory compared to when he first signed.
--Larsson likely wasn't on their radar at this point.

Dubas should have had some intelligence to say we have a few good young goalies in our system. There's a chance one of them breaks out sooner rather than later. He either signs Jarry to a 2 year deal, or lets him walk and gets a Talbot/Nedeljkovic tandem, and still gets someone like Hellberg to be the AHL vet emergency break glass goalie.

[Dynasty1970]

The Jarry problem is the same as the Sully problem……..Problem is,they are both employed by the Pittsburgh Penguins!!!!!

[FLPensFan]

More publicly flattery for Jarry:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/585115 ... y-options/

https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/pittsbu ... st-shines/

[largegarlic]

Here was the real option last summer.

Sign Ned.
Promote Blomqvist.
Sign Larsson.
Invite Murashov to the US.
Gauthier.
Pick up some dude to play minor league hockey.

Done.

Too much hindsight in all of this.
--I don't think the Penguins have been happy with Jarry for awhile, but I do think the tipping point was last year, staring down the defense, and losing his job for the last 11 games. Without that happening, he may not be held in low regard by management.
--Blomqvist had 1 game in WBS going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Murashov was under contract in the MHL/KHL going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Gauthier was an average goalie, splitting time between ECHL and AHL. If anything, he was on a downward trajectory compared to when he first signed.
--Larsson likely wasn't on their radar at this point.

Dubas should have had some intelligence to say we have a few good young goalies in our system. There's a chance one of them breaks out sooner rather than later. He either signs Jarry to a 2 year deal, or lets him walk and gets a Talbot/Nedeljkovic tandem, and still gets someone like Hellberg to be the AHL vet emergency break glass goalie.

Yeah, I do think re-signing Jarry was the best option when it happened. Remember that they were also determined to add Karlsson that summer too, and they weren't going to go into that season with a Nedjelkovic/completely untested Blomqvist tandem. They were taking a big swing at making a playoff run.

That said, I would have offered Jarry either a substantial raise or term, not both. If he had gotten a 2-year deal at $5-6 million, it wouldn't be as big a deal this season. They could have bought him out over the summer, might be able trade him with some retention, or just wait it out and let him walk next summer. Or if he had kept the same salary (I think it was $3.25 million) and had a 5-year deal, things wouldn't be great, but it'd still be easier to find a taker in a trade at that price, again with some possible retention.

[Cow_Master66]

None of the scenarios with him are good.. but sometimes you have to take some bad with the good..

Maybe Jarry with 25% retained (4M approx. left) and 2nd rounder goes for another underperforming guy and 3rd rounder..

Which team could need him? Even JR and Vancouver probably wouldnt bite that sour apple atm.

1 more retained salary spot left....who wants it?

[KG]

Blom first goalie off today. Good. Jarry really shouldn't be getting any starts at home until he gets his head right.

[pfim]

Too much hindsight in all of this.
--I don't think the Penguins have been happy with Jarry for awhile, but I do think the tipping point was last year, staring down the defense, and losing his job for the last 11 games. Without that happening, he may not be held in low regard by management.
--Blomqvist had 1 game in WBS going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Murashov was under contract in the MHL/KHL going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Gauthier was an average goalie, splitting time between ECHL and AHL. If anything, he was on a downward trajectory compared to when he first signed.
--Larsson likely wasn't on their radar at this point.

Dubas should have had some intelligence to say we have a few good young goalies in our system. There's a chance one of them breaks out sooner rather than later. He either signs Jarry to a 2 year deal, or lets him walk and gets a Talbot/Nedeljkovic tandem, and still gets someone like Hellberg to be the AHL vet emergency break glass goalie.

The only other option, I saw, was to eschew the position at the start of the season and hope to use that cap space to make a trade mid-season.

I don''t know if that was a realistic thought, though frankly there was enough evidence and talk about Jarry's play for it to be a consideration.

[Coffey Break]

Blom first goalie off today. Good. Jarry really shouldn't be getting any starts at home until he gets his head right.

I don't think he should getting anymore starts in a Penguins uniform. Period. Ride Blomqvist for as long as you need until Ned is back (who is already on a conditioning assignment in WBS for 3 games). And then ride Blom/Ned the rest of the way while you figure out how to get rid of #35. He's an absolute headcase and spins off nothing more than loser energy everytime he opens his mouth.

[Daniel]

Here was the real option last summer.

Sign Ned.
Promote Blomqvist.
Sign Larsson.
Invite Murashov to the US.
Gauthier.
Pick up some dude to play minor league hockey.

Done.

Too much hindsight in all of this.
--I don't think the Penguins have been happy with Jarry for awhile, but I do think the tipping point was last year, staring down the defense, and losing his job for the last 11 games. Without that happening, he may not be held in low regard by management.
--Blomqvist had 1 game in WBS going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Murashov was under contract in the MHL/KHL going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Gauthier was an average goalie, splitting time between ECHL and AHL. If anything, he was on a downward trajectory compared to when he first signed.
--Larsson likely wasn't on their radar at this point.

Dubas should have had some intelligence to say we have a few good young goalies in our system. There's a chance one of them breaks out sooner rather than later. He either signs Jarry to a 2 year deal, or lets him walk and gets a Talbot/Nedeljkovic tandem, and still gets someone like Hellberg to be the AHL vet emergency break glass goalie.

I think the contract was because of the delusion that this is a contending team and Jarry was the best of many bad options. They couldn’t just go into last season with 2 journeymen and hope one of the kids develops. Murashov had a nice WBS debut and Blomqvist was great last year. Problem is, both were unknown before last season.

A realistic look at the roster and no way they sign Jarry. Get Ned and who cares and hope for the future, but the Penguins will be in win now mode until the wheels fall off.

[dark_forces]

Blom first goalie off today. Good. Jarry really shouldn't be getting any starts at home until he gets his head right.

I don't think he should getting anymore starts in a Penguins uniform. Period. Ride Blomqvist for as long as you need until Ned is back (who is already on a conditioning assignment in WBS for 3 games). And then ride Blom/Ned the rest of the way while you figure out how to get rid of #35. He's an absolute headcase and spins off nothing more than loser energy everytime he opens his mouth.

I lean toward this direction as well. However, from management's perspective, barring a surprise trade, you're left to at least attempt to get him back on track. Maybe you bring in a sports psychologist to work with him and get him focused and reengaged.

[Puck-Lurker]

Here was the real option last summer.

Sign Ned.
Promote Blomqvist.
Sign Larsson.
Invite Murashov to the US.
Gauthier.
Pick up some dude to play minor league hockey.

Done.

Too much hindsight in all of this.
--I don't think the Penguins have been happy with Jarry for awhile, but I do think the tipping point was last year, staring down the defense, and losing his job for the last 11 games. Without that happening, he may not be held in low regard by management.
--Blomqvist had 1 game in WBS going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Murashov was under contract in the MHL/KHL going into last season. He wasn't a realistic option.
--Gauthier was an average goalie, splitting time between ECHL and AHL. If anything, he was on a downward trajectory compared to when he first signed.
--Larsson likely wasn't on their radar at this point.

Dubas should have had some intelligence to say we have a few good young goalies in our system. There's a chance one of them breaks out sooner rather than later. He either signs Jarry to a 2 year deal, or lets him walk and gets a Talbot/Nedeljkovic tandem, and still gets someone like Hellberg to be the AHL vet emergency break glass goalie.

Yeah, I do think re-signing Jarry was the best option when it happened. Remember that they were also determined to add Karlsson that summer too, and they weren't going to go into that season with a Nedjelkovic/completely untested Blomqvist tandem. They were taking a big swing at making a playoff run.

That said, I would have offered Jarry either a substantial raise or term, not both. If he had gotten a 2-year deal at $5-6 million, it wouldn't be as big a deal this season. They could have bought him out over the summer, might be able trade him with some retention, or just wait it out and let him walk next summer. Or if he had kept the same salary (I think it was $3.25 million) and had a 5-year deal, things wouldn't be great, but it'd still be easier to find a taker in a trade at that price, again with some possible retention.

Hindsight, yeah. For Blomqvist (a bit), Murashov (yeah), Larsson (eh, sure), Gauthier (yeah).

Not for Jarry. I called it at the time. Did not want him on the roster. At 1M, maybe. At a real stretch, at the same AAV for a short term deal. That part isn't hindsight.

This team could have gone out and money-balled a few goaltenders. There are enough budget bin goaltenders around usually to take a chance on. Larsson was an example this off-season, but they're always kinda there. You could get a few on the cheap and let them compete for back up duty. Blomqvist can be in the conversation if he does well in the A.

Jarry at 5.375Mx5 was awful at the time and it's not gotten any better. I actually like Graves' contract better by a fair amount.

The problem with Jarry is that you're getting a high ceiling, no floor kind of goalie. That's nice, but wouldn't outperform someone like Ned by any significant margin on average and fall significantly below that for stretches. You might as well have the cap space assigned somewhere else at that stage.

[SteelCityFan]

None of the scenarios with him are good.. but sometimes you have to take some bad with the good..

Maybe Jarry with 25% retained (4M approx. left) and 2nd rounder goes for another underperforming guy and 3rd rounder..

Which team could need him? Even JR and Vancouver probably wouldnt bite that sour apple atm.

I think this is a good approach. Jarry is broken mentally. Unfortunately, I don’t think it matters who’s in net as long as Sully and his outdated system are still behind the bench.

[Pens4Life]

Defense is huge problem with Pens, soo many mistakes, bad passes, bad coverages, bad positioning.. it seems even worse now with Quinn here! They look confused and lost.. every goalie will suffer with that 6-7 guys in front of him

[Puck-Lurker]

Defense is huge problem with Pens, soo many mistakes, bad passes, bad coverages, bad positioning.. it seems even worse now with Quinn here! They look confused and lost.. every goalie will suffer with that 6-7 guys in front of him

I think that's what worried me the absolute most to start the season. Dubas did a ton of work to overhaul the bottom six and improved the goalie situation.

Defense.. we signed Grzelcyk to play top pair minutes and... *crickets chirping*

I get it, defense doesn't put asses in seats, but we're really soft at back. I don't mean that in a physicality way. If the emphasis was to be to reach the playoffs, more than bringing in assets for the future, that should've been addressed. Even at the cost of passing up on one of these picking up some misfits with picks attached types of deals.


Whenever this team has to transition to defense, there's just that fraction of extra time lost. Combine it with some misreads and this defense gets beaten a lot.

[KG]

According to Freidman the Avs are looking at Gibson and Blackwood as potential goalie options. Hopefully KD is doing his due diligence.

[Admin]

Ned recalled from WBS.